Bridle wrap EP

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

3 hours ago, pchapman said:

Generally emergency procedures may assume that you've already made "one try" to fix the issue, and that means one short try. Can't get PC out of pouch? Try once more, but then go to emergency procedures.

I would tend to stick with that "one try" idea for an entanglement. With the usual warnings about how people can stretch "one try" out way too long.

However, I haven't actually spotted anything on bridle entanglements in the USPA SIM (but I'm not really familiar with it), only more generic "out of sequence" deployments, which it kind of ends up being if the bag is out but PC bridle wrapped around a foot.

The SIM basically says for premature container opening to " First, attempt to deploy the main pilot chute for no more than two tries or two seconds, whichever comes first", then cutaway and use reserve.  (5-1 Skydiving Emergencies)  Huh, "two tries" in there! Well, yeah that works with the qualifying statements but I suspect most instructors would just say "one good try" or similar.

For pilot chutes in tow, the SIM does allow 'the two methods' -- cutting away or not cutting away first.

And for "partial malfunctions" in general, for all the many many varieties of 'container open but no good chute', the instructions are just to cut away and go to reserve.

So, are there specific recommendations about a bridle entanglement somewhere? (Not just from the USPA)

They do exist for things like tandems, but in that case the entanglement with the drogue bridle normally happens shortly after exit at altitude, so one can afford to try to fix it for 10 seconds like the UPT Sigma tandem manual says!

Skydiving organizations do expect a jumper to try to fix some entanglements -- like with a camera helmet -- Otherwise, why would any organization bother with all the recommendations to have a cutaway system for the helmet!

The Aussie APF's great malfunction video series, for horseshoes, just says to cutaway and deploy the reserve  -- with the video of the the test jumper doing that, but with little tension on the reserve risers, the reserve fires into the mess -- but clears it. (Even with a tersh, there's a fun jump...) I only skimmed the video but didn't see a specific Entanglement mal.

One thing I wonder about entanglements is what to do with the RSL -- as that will fire the reserve as one cuts away before pulling the reserve handle, if the main risers are tensioned and clear the rig. Does anyone address that? Does having a second of time between cutaway and firing the reserve improve the outcomes in case of an entanglement?

The Sigma tandem manual these days has stuff on releasing the RSL first before cutting away, when dealing with various messes behind one's back -- but again, their emergency procedures tend to happen at a higher altitude. The USPA SIM does have a section (5-3) where it lists all the ways that an RSL can complicate procedures in the event of an emergency..... but does it actually go through those messy scenarios and what to do about them anywhere??

With a high speed entanglement in regular skydiving, time is very short, and those RSL tabs may not be easy to find in freefall quickly. I figure theoretically it would be better to release the RSL first but in practical terms it is hard to do in a short "one try" time period...

Hi Peter,

Re:  with the video of the the test jumper doing that, but with little tension on the reserve risers, the reserve fires into the mess --

Are you sure you do not mean little tension on the main risers?

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi folks,

Re:  You run out of sky before you realize it.  

I realize it was a very long time ago & lots have changed since then.  But, in the Fall of 1964 I watched someone that I knew tried & tried to get a main ripcord pulled.  He finally pulled his chest pack reserve at 300 ft.  In the Spring of 1965 I watched someone else that I knew tried & tried to get a main ripcord pulled.  He finally pulled his chest pack at 400 ft.  Both of those events are burned into my mind.

If you ever see something like that, you will understand why I say:  You run out of sky before you realize it.  

Jerry Baumchen

[pchapman 261]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Peter,

Re:  with the video of the the test jumper doing that, but with little tension on the reserve risers, the reserve fires into the mess --

Are you sure you do not mean little tension on the main risers?

Jerry Baumchen

Yes, fixed, thank you.

[dudeman17 267]

6 hours ago, wmw999 said:

you have to invest extra effort in preventing it

 

This cannot be stressed strongly enough or often enough.

[Baksteen 84]

On 9/2/2021 at 4:06 PM, pchapman said:

<snip>

One thing I wonder about entanglements is what to do with the RSL -- as that will fire the reserve as one cuts away before pulling the reserve handle, if the main risers are tensioned and clear the rig. Does anyone address that? Does having a second of time between cutaway and firing the reserve improve the outcomes in case of an entanglement?

<snip>

With a high speed entanglement in regular skydiving, time is very short, and those RSL tabs may not be easy to find in freefall quickly. I figure theoretically it would be better to release the RSL first but in practical terms it is hard to do in a short "one try" time period...

As far as I'm concerned you answered your own question. And yes, I am aware that I am answering someone with ten(thousand) times my own experience.

Please do not waste any time with disconnecting an RSL during high speed malfunctions. This is true not only for PCIT or Horseshoes, but also for downplanes.

To reiterate Jerry's point in slightly different wording (as taught to me during my own FJC):

Time flies when the parachute doesn't.

[danornan 64]

Or as others have said, don't be a rigger in the sky.  Go with the odds and chances are it will be a non event.

[fcajump 153]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:29 AM, Baksteen said:

Please do not waste any time with disconnecting an RSL during high speed malfunctions. This is true not only for PCIT or Horseshoes, but also for downplanes.

UNLESS: you have a Racer that is equipped with a dual sided RSL.  In which case you better know your system better than 99% of the people on this forum.

Just sayin'.

 

JW