Importance of vaccination and masking

[SkyDekker 1,121]

2 hours ago, base698 said:

The cheerleading and trust for an industry that killed 500,000 people of all ages with safe and non-addictive Oxy and routinely hides and misleads with results to make a little more profit as people die is interesting. 

Such a bizarre take. If big pharma had done nothing, many more people would be dead. Oxy is a prime example of capitalism.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

2 hours ago, base698 said:

We started at herd immunity then shifted to the idea it's somehow just about hospitalization and death.  I remain skeptical.  

The cheerleading and trust for an industry that killed 500,000 people of all ages with safe and non-addictive Oxy and routinely hides and misleads with results to make a little more profit as people die is interesting. 

At the beginning, it was apparent that Covid cases could overwhelm the hospital system which would cause a general reduction in the availability of care for everyone. The real concept of herd Immunity was used as a way to to explain to knuckleheads that it wasn't just their own thumb they were whacking with the hammer. Ultimately, that was proven to be a misguided approach. From the start we should have used the your truck won't make smoke and your sheep will leave you approach. Lesson learned.

[gowlerk 1,911]

2 hours ago, base698 said:

My prediction would be their is some pushback from the already hurting businesses that are going to lose 50% of their customer base. 

 

My prediction is that it will just become a normal part of life for a couple years, then slowly fade away.

[gowlerk 1,911]

43 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Such a bizarre take. If big pharma had done nothing, many more people would be dead. Oxy is a prime example of capitalism.

I can imagine where we would be right now without the near miracle that our current vaccines have been. We are very lucky to be living in a time where so much is possible.

[nwt 131]

4 hours ago, base698 said:

then shifted to the idea it's somehow just about hospitalization and death

"It" has always been about hospitalization and death. Where is this idea coming from that "it" was ever about anything else? When were people not going to the hospital and dying, and what was "it" about then?

 

4 hours ago, base698 said:

Already seeing a huge reduction in reservations at restaurants that were already hurting

During a pandemic? You don't say!

[base698 1]

3 hours ago, olofscience said:

Given that you don't seem to have any idea how the vaccine works, the lack of trust is understandable. It's hard to trust something you don't understand.

I feel sorry that it seems to be beyond your ability to understand it, and that you lack more intelligent friends or family who do. Must be scary, no wonder you're angry.

I had a 4.0 in biochem so I kind of assume the years of drawing the Krebs cycle and enzyme reactions is a bit higher than average understanding of the mechanics.

I'll just make up something about you: Must be comforting to have such blind trust in institutions that have killed millions.  I bet you sleep really soundly.

[olofscience 420]

8 minutes ago, base698 said:

I had a 4.0 in biochem

 suuuuuure.

9 minutes ago, base698 said:

I'll just make up something about you

you sure that 4.0 wasn't creative writing?

8 minutes ago, base698 said:

Must be comforting to have such blind trust

ah yes, the sheep accusation. Meanwhile those who keep calling people sheep actually go out and take livestock dewormer...

[olofscience 420]

14 minutes ago, base698 said:

the years of drawing the Krebs cycle and enzyme reactions is a bit higher than average understanding of the mechanics.

So why don't you be more specific on what's your concern with the vaccine?

Is it the 1-methyl-3’-pseudouridylyl (Ψ) substitution? The actual S protein subunit encoded? Go on, don't hold back. We can handle it.

[billvon 2,396]

4 hours ago, base698 said:

We started at herd immunity then shifted to the idea it's somehow just about hospitalization and death.  I remain skeptical.  

Nope.  It's about all three.  But you have to define what you are talking about - saying "well the vaccine is X effective!" without saying what it is effective AT is meaningless.

Quote

The cheerleading and trust for an industry that killed 500,000 people of all ages with safe and non-addictive Oxy and routinely hides and misleads with results to make a little more profit as people die is interesting. 

Nope.  Trust in results, not industries.  I trust PD reserves because they work well - not because the textile companies that make their fabrics are sterling examples of humanity.

Quote

I had a 4.0 in biochem so I kind of assume the years of drawing the Krebs cycle and enzyme reactions is a bit higher than average understanding of the mechanics.

This reminds me of the time BrentHutch said "and what about the Shockley-Quessier limit?  See?" to portray himself as knowing a lot about renewable energy.

Anyone who has taken high school biology has read about the Krebs cycle and how enzymes catalyze biochemical reactions.  They are not all experts on immunology.   Neither are you.  Neither am I.

Quote

 Must be comforting to have such blind trust in institutions that have killed millions.  I bet you sleep really soundly.

As comforting as it is to watch FOX News for all your information, and believe in the words of the demon-sperm lady I imagine.

[billvon 2,396]

5 hours ago, base698 said:

Already seeing a huge reduction in reservations at restaurants that were already hurting. 

Excellent!  It is great to see people putting human lives above restaurant profits.  Gives me a little hope in humanity.

Quote

My prediction would be their is some pushback from the already hurting businesses that are going to lose 50% of their customer base.

Of course there will be.  A lot of people still prioritize money over lives - and pretty much every business in the US wants to make more money.   Good way to solve both problems at once - get everyone vaccinated.

 

[olofscience 420]

21 minutes ago, billvon said:

This reminds me of the time BrentHutch said "and what about the Shockley-Quessier limit?  See?" to portray himself as knowing a lot about renewable energy.

Anyone who has taken high school biology has read about the Krebs cycle and how enzymes catalyze biochemical reactions.

Even though he had no idea what he was talking about, Brent at least mentioned something not usually taught in high school...Krebs cycle lol 

[base698 1]

13 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Even though he had no idea what he was talking about, Brent at least mentioned something not usually taught in high school...Krebs cycle lol 

Was in my college biochem class.  You had to draw the whole thing in one of the tests, not just be aware of it.

https://www.science.widener.edu/~nagengast/BCH452syllabusS08.pdf

Lab that has TCA right there, how about that?! 

Nice chatting with such an asshole.  

[olofscience 420]

10 minutes ago, base698 said:

You had to draw the whole thing in one of the tests, not just be aware of it.

Did you have to draw it in crayon?  this is too funny!

 

Yes sorry I'm being a bit provocative, but at least I'm not giving people bad health advice during a pandemic that could put lives at risk, you know?

Edited August 31, 2021 by olofscience

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

I had a 4.0 in biochem

Suggest you ask for your tuition money back, since you can't compound a 40% reduction/month over 6 months and figure out the result is nonsensical.  Some scientist!

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

49 minutes ago, base698 said:

Was in my college biochem class.  You had to draw the whole thing in one of the tests, not just be aware of it.

https://www.science.widener.edu/~nagengast/BCH452syllabusS08.pdf

Lab that has TCA right there, how about that?! 

Nice chatting with such an asshole.  

Hi base,

Re:  Nice chatting with such an asshole.  

I think you are in violation of the rules here. 

Mods?????

Jerry Baumchen

 

[base698 1]

33 minutes ago, kallend said:

Suggest you ask for your tuition money back, since you can't compound a 40% reduction/month over 6 months and figure out the result is nonsensical.  Some scientist!

The study I saw, which to be fair I can't find was 40% per month, at the 3rd month there was basically no detectable antibodies in the blood.  

The 8 month, 5 month booster recommendation definitely seems to imply it's less effective than they thought (and not just from the variants).

[base698 1]

3 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi base,

Re:  Nice chatting with such an asshole.  

I think you are in violation of the rules here. 

Mods?????

Jerry Baumchen

 

I've been cordial to everyone, can't really say the same about most of you. 

[yoink 321]

16 hours ago, billvon said:

There is some evidence that that is true - and that heterologous vaccinations (i.e. first one J+J, second one Pfizer) confer greater immunity.

I’m seriously considering doing this, even though it’s against CDC advice at the moment.

[billvon 2,396]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

Was in my college biochem class.  You had to draw the whole thing in one of the tests, not just be aware of it.

https://www.science.widener.edu/~nagengast/BCH452syllabusS08.pdf

Lab that has TCA right there, how about that?! 

Nice chatting with such an asshole.  

Let's cool it with the personal attacks please.

 

[yoink 321]

2 hours ago, base698 said:

I had a 4.0 in biochem so I kind of assume the years of drawing the Krebs cycle and enzyme reactions is a bit higher than average understanding of the mechanics.

I'll just make up something about you: Must be comforting to have such blind trust in institutions that have killed millions.  I bet you sleep really soundly.

Biochemistry is not the same as immunology or virology. That’s why they’re called different things and have different degrees and specializations.

I did a degree in neuroscience - that doesn’t mean I understand epidemiology or immunology the same way as a specialist would.

What my bioscience background SHOULD do is give me the ability  to read and evaluate scientific literature and data to some degree, and to make more informed opinions than a layman with no scientific background - but you’re not displaying that ability, despite a 4.0 in biochemistry.

Edited August 31, 2021 by yoink

[kallend 1,623]

An explanation of Simpson's Paradox that is easy to understand.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/08/31/covid-israel-hospitalization-rates-simpsons-paradox/

 

 

[olofscience 420]

28 minutes ago, base698 said:

at the 3rd month there was basically no detectable antibodies in the blood. 

No detectable antibodies doesn't mean no immunity - the immune system has B lymphocytes and T lymphocytes that also seem to retain viral signatures long term. But yes, boosters are starting to look like a good idea. What's not a good idea is skipping the vaccine and completely relying on Vitamin D and a healthy lifestyle.

[billvon 2,396]

8 minutes ago, olofscience said:

No detectable antibodies doesn't mean no immunity - the immune system has B lymphocytes and T lymphocytes that also seem to retain viral signatures long term.

Yep.  Doctors and scientists have been warning people for a while to not rely on antibody tests to determine degree of immunity.  Antibody tests do not test for immunologic memory, and they don't even test for all the antibodies against SARS-CoV-2.  You might well be chock full of antibodies that will protect you, but since the antibody test tests only for specific antibodies (generally ones that act against the spike protein) the test could still come back negative.

Good overview: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/28/1031287076/antibody-tests-should-not-be-your-go-to-for-checking-covid-immunity

 

[mistercwood 287]

8 hours ago, base698 said:

The cheerleading and trust for an industry that killed 500,000 people of all ages with safe and non-addictive Oxy and routinely hides and misleads with results to make a little more profit as people die is interesting. 

Instead of dog-piling I'm going to address where the logic here fails, because I don't think it's unreasonable to have a healthy distrust of the industry that *did* contribute heavily to the opioid crisis.

Our nation doesn't have that issue. We're not beholden to Big Pharma in the same way the US doctors are - but we're still pushing for vaccine's in the exact same way because it's the right thing to do, medically. So is basically every other nation out there, who doesn't have that same questionable relationship between the drug companies and it's practitioners.

[nwt 131]

4 hours ago, base698 said:

The study I saw, which to be fair I can't find

If we're being fair, a study you can't find has zero relevance to this or any discussion. So why do you keep mentioning it?