France Féderal Parachutisme, new directive on canopy sizes.

[Chemtrail 0]

Seems like like France's Féderal Parachutisme has brought out yet another "law" ( directive technique) on permitted canopy sizes relative to jump experience. While I suppose ultimately it could be a good thing and reduce landing accident statistics. It's sure inconvenient for a lot of skydivers who may have recently downsized and find out that they can't use their canopy anymore on French territory due to the new rule. I was looking forward to touring some of the French DZ's this summer but find myself in a similar predicament, flying a new 9 cell 130,( a modest down size from a 135) when according to the chart I'm busted back to virtual student status with a 170 because I don't qualify for an exemption by having at least 100 jumps on the current canopy.! The chart is an over simplification in many ways as it doesn't take into account variables like the differences in canopy taper and cell nr. ( 7 or 9). Or that jumper weight can vary by up to 5-10 % in a year, i.e. faster than most jumpers could afford to upsize accordingly.

http://www.ffp.asso.fr/dt046-nouvelle-reglementation-relative-a-lutilisation-des-voilures-principales/

[riggerrob 598]

May I suggest that you do 100 jumps - on your current canopy - before visiting France?
If you are smart, you will get some canopy coaching and devote your next 100 jumps to learn all the corners of the performance envelope of your current canopy.

As for French standards being overly-restrictive .... they are just trying to keep you alive.

As for me, I am considering up-sizing my Stiletto 135 to a docile 170, because I have not done enough jumps on my Stiletto to stay current.

[GoneCodFishing 24]

It does seem a bit harsh.

Checking that table and doing some basic maths. Starting with a round canopy number (81kgs gets a 170 @ 400-600 jumps) it seems the maximum WLing allowed is 1.17 until 600 jumps

Lighter people still have to jump a 170 unless weight goes down to or below 69kgs, at which point are allowed a [email protected]...

[AdD 1]

http://www.ffp.asso.fr/dt046-nouvelle-reglementation-relative-a-lutilisation-des-voilures-principales/

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[mathrick 2]

riggerrob

As for French standards being overly-restrictive .... they are just trying to keep you alive.

'Cept they're widely regarded as being confusing more than anything, and quite successful at getting in the way of people actually learning anything. This is very much second-hand info I have, but I've heard quite a few horror stories of people doing AFF in USA or Spain and then getting back to France only to find out they're not allowed to spot or pack their own canopy (!) until they have some ridiculous number of jumps (I think it was 100 or 150).

For reference, DFU allows 500g/ft² (WL=1.1) for jumpers with <200 jumps, and 650g/ft² (WL=1.45) for 200 < x < 400, unless the canopy is "fully eliptical"[1], in which case it's 500g/ft² again. With these rules, I'll be allowed to downsize from 170 to 150 once I hit 200 jumps, but under the new French rules, the same would require 600 jumps. 600 jumps in DK is the threshold past which your canopy and WL choices are entirely at your own discretion.

Now, you could argue the DFU rules are fairly aggressive (it'd be a fair point to argue, though I believe it works fine in practice), and that many people treat them as "you should have this WL at this number of jumps" rather than "you might at most have this WL" (also a fair point, I felt like I should've chosen a bigger wing for the first 15 jumps on my Sabre2, till I got proper canopy coaching), and that additionally many jumpers push the boundaries even further (I know people 15kg heavier than me, who jumped 170 as their first non-student canopy, same as me). Those would all be valid points to argue. But I don't buy that Denmark, which is generally very conservative and happy to impose restrictions, can somehow allow people with 200 jumps to fly the same thing Frenchies can't even get near until 600 jumps. That's an extreme difference, and all it will do is create further unhappiness with the rules and a will to sidestep them.

[1] It used to be that "fully elliptical" was stated without further definition, but with the latest update they moved towards an explicit white list of canopies allowed at each experience level.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[Blis 1]

mathrick

***As for French standards being overly-restrictive .... they are just trying to keep you alive.

'Cept they're widely regarded as being confusing more than anything, and quite successful at getting in the way of people actually learning anything. This is very much second-hand info I have, but I've heard quite a few horror stories of people doing AFF in USA or Spain and then getting back to France only to find out they're not allowed to spot or pack their own canopy (!) until they have some ridiculous number of jumps (I think it was 100 or 150).

....

Uhhh, you're not allowed to spot or pack before 100 jumps?? what the hell...

[Chemtrail 0]

I had anticipated this kind of response. And if you read my comment again, it clearly states that in principal it may not be a bad thing to reduce potential accidents. Your profile stats. show you to be a man of experience and worth listening to, so thank you for the advice on the new canopy. However It's more the grey zones that cause a certain grief.

My current 130 ( actually a 129 Icarus Omni) flies and lands easier than my previous 135 er. ( Stiletto). So it's really that kind of variable that I'm referring to rather than anything being over restrictive. I can manage max.80-90 jumps in a year so I guess France is out for 2016 !

* Error on my opening post, I meant 7 cell not 9 cell. My bad..

[piisfish 136]

are you a french jumper ? or jumper under french license ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Chemtrail 0]

No, not French, I'm UK expat. living in Germany.

[EvilGenius 0]

I jumped in France as a non French licenced jumper last summer, my wing-loading that while meeting my home regulations is higher than permitted in France. One DZ let me jump my own gear a second insisted that I use their rental gear.

The rental gear was shit, first two rigs had leg straps that repeatedly came completely undone when I was fitting....sunscreen apparently......and the bungy snapped on the third when I was sit flying. I'd rather take my chances with my own canopy!

[kuai43 7]

Who the hell wants to jump in France, anyway?

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[Bluhdow 31]

Yet another terribly executed, if not well-intended, dumb sh*t attempt to try and protect people from themselves.

Just ban skydiving and get it over with already.

Apex BASE
#1816

[gowlerk 2,072]

Bluhdow

Yet another terribly executed, if not well-intended, dumb sh*t attempt to try and protect people from themselves.

Just ban skydiving and get it over with already.

I'm with you on this one.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Boomerdog 0]

Well...when the DZ's in France find themselves on the brink of going out of business because skydivers stay, they'll voila..."rethink it."

[BMFin 0]

Boomerdog

Well...when the DZ's in France find themselves on the brink of going out of business because skydivers stay, they'll voila..."rethink it."

Are you sure DZ's in France are run as businesses?

[tristansdad 0]

When hell freezes over and I actually find myself back in France I may reference that chart.

[riggerrob 598]

There is always an awkward transition phase when any new regulation is introduced.
2 or 3 years from now, no-one will remember that 2016 was a rough year for junior skydivers visiting France with their tiny canopies.

[Bluhdow 31]

Yeah you're right. F*ck it. There will be an awkward transition phase when they ban skydiving too, but we'll get used to it after a few years and learn to enjoy playing bocce ball with our friends instead.

Regulation of other people is painless. It's not until they knock on your door that it starts to feel real.

Apex BASE
#1816

[Di0 1]

Or, for some mysterious reason, all foreign skydivers visiting France will have a logbook with a jump number eerily appropriate for the type of canopy they jump.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[riggerrob 598]

It will be a painful transition period as we learn how to play bocce ball, buy steel-toed boots and figure out which team-mates to watch from a distance.

[Phil1111 1,058]

Di0

Or, for some mysterious reason, all foreign skydivers visiting France will have a logbook with a jump number eerily appropriate for the type of canopy they jump.

Oui !!!

[riggerrob 598]

Bluhdow

Yet another terribly executed, if not well-intended, dumb sh*t attempt to try and protect people from themselves.

Just ban skydiving and get it over with already.

..............................................................................

If that policy was written in the USA, we would blame it on the FAA's "molasses mind."
If the policy was written in Canada, we would blame it on Ottawa's "maple syrup mind."
....... but since the policy was written in France, do we blame it on "Merlot mind" ?????..... Or "Merde mind" for short?????