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# 41,000' jumps at West Tennessee Skydiving

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Posted (edited)
Cheyenne 400LS at West Tennessee Skydiving, 41,000' jumps, owned and flown by Mike Mullins.

The 400LS made aviation history on 16 April 1985 by setting two new time-to-climb records for its class (C-1e Group 2, 3000m and 9,000m) and shattering two time-to-climb records for all turboprop classes (6,000m and 12,000m) while being piloted by Gen. Chuck Yeager:

3,000 meters/9843' in 1 minute, 47.6 seconds, average climb rate of 5,467 fpm

6,000 meters/19,685' in 3 minute, 42.0 seconds, average climb rate of 5,320 fpm

9,000 meters/29,527' in 6 minutes, 34.6 seconds, average climb rate of 4,507 fpm

12,000 meters/39,370' in 11 minutes, 8.3 seconds, average climb rate of 3,531 fp

1,645 hp per engine

You can view the record setting flight by Chuck Yeager on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFPcrWVFlcY

Edited by michaelmullins
typo

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Pretty slick ride, Mike. Something tells me you'll keep her busy.

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(edited)

Quite the hot rod.

You can't really fly it unpressurized at FL410 though, can you? Do jumpers wear pressure suits? In any case congratulations, that must have been a difficult thing to acquire.

Edited by gowlerk

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Lets see, at 41k ft, atmospheric pressure would be about 19% of sea level. So one would have to breathe 100% O2 to have the same concentration as you get in air at sea level (~20%).

I wonder what terminal velocity would be at that height. A quick google says terminal velocity is proportional to the square root of 1 divided by the air density, so sqrt(1 / 0.19) = sqrt(5.26) = 2.3.  So if belly terminal velocity is 120 mph, at 41k it would be 275 mph. If head down is 165 mph, then 378 mph. (Although probably about 20% less, as standard terminal velocities for skydivers are probably measured at 8k or so above sea level.)

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(edited)
5 minutes ago, Divalent said:

Lets see, at 41k ft, atmospheric pressure would be about 19% of sea level.

So, I guess Mike won't be hacking up his new pride and joy toy by installing jump mods!

Edited by gowlerk

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2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Quite the hot rod.

You can't really fly it unpressurized at FL410 though, can you? Do jumpers wear pressure suits? In any case congratulations, that must have been a difficult thing to acquire.

Yes, I can fly it unpressurized at FL410, there would be no point in having it if I could not.  No, the jumpers do not wear pressure suits.  There have been a number of skydives made from 41,000' in the past.

Mike

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Divalent said:

Lets see, at 41k ft, atmospheric pressure would be about 19% of sea level. So one would have to breathe 100% O2 to have the same concentration as you get in air at sea level (~20%).

I wonder what terminal velocity would be at that height. A quick google says terminal velocity is proportional to the square root of 1 divided by the air density, so sqrt(1 / 0.19) = sqrt(5.26) = 2.3.  So if belly terminal velocity is 120 mph, at 41k it would be 275 mph. If head down is 165 mph, then 378 mph. (Although probably about 20% less, as standard terminal velocities for skydivers are probably measured at 8k or so above sea level.)

There are 2 speeds:  Indicated airspeed and true airspeed.  The speed that the jumper will feel in freefall is always indicated airspeed and for a jumper that falls at an indicated airspeed of 120 mph, he will fall at that same indicated airspeed regardless of altitude (except when going so high there is no air at all).  If you could take an airspeed indicator with you in freefall, it would always register the same airspeed, indicated airspeed, regardless of altitude for a give body position.  Your true airspeed will change with altitude and at 41,000' your true airspeed, with an indicated airspeed of 120 mph, would be about (depending on temperature) 245 mph.  However, your body would only feel the indicated airspeed of 120 mph.

Mike Mullins

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

So, I guess Mike won't be hacking up his new pride and joy toy by installing jump mods!

Oh yes I will.

Mike

Edited by michaelmullins

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14 minutes ago, michaelmullins said:

Oh yes I will.

Mike

You are truly a bad ass.

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This alone tempts me to start jumping again.

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Was chatting with an American chap called "Greg" (no surname) at Hinton in the UK last week about HALO plans and he told me you had this planned Mike, apparantly he visited with you last December.

We both agreed that if you got it and offered it we will come and give it a go just as soon as we can.

Awesome can't wait

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Okay so you guys will be using this plane at west Tn. S.D. As your main jump plane? And offering halo jumps along with that?

when will it be ready to fly jumpers?

curious how much a halo jump would cost…even tho its fast to altitude i imagine the fuel consumption would be along the same lines as other aircraft offering halo jumps?

sounds like a awesome plane and possibly ill need to drive down sometime from Pa.  congrads on the acquisition.

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2 hours ago, outdoort said:

curious how much a halo jump would cost…even tho its fast to altitude i imagine the fuel consumption would be along the same lines as other aircraft offering halo jumps?

I would imagine that the fuel burn would be among the smallest of the considerations when calculating the costs involved in a HALO jump. I wouldn't dream of speaking for Mike, but I would point to his excellent web page where he writes about some of the issues.

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Thanks for the link gowlerk. Yea ur prob certainly right that the fuel is just part of the whole jump cost, not necessarily the reason why they are expensive… never looked into halo jumps before now, but def will be something ill do eventually in my skydive career.
Looks like there a few hundred dollars to make a halo jump from west Tn. Skydiving… maybe one day. I was thinking 300-500 or so, but i guess i was kinda low on my estimate.

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That's above jet flight levels!

How do you get ATC to clear the airspace for you? If you wear a wingsuit you probably need many miles...

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On 8/22/2021 at 7:47 AM, outdoort said:

Okay so you guys will be using this plane at west Tn. S.D. As your main jump plane? And offering halo jumps along with that?

when will it be ready to fly jumpers?

curious how much a halo jump would cost…even tho its fast to altitude i imagine the fuel consumption would be along the same lines as other aircraft offering halo jumps?

sounds like a awesome plane and possibly ill need to drive down sometime from Pa.  congrads on the acquisition.

This aircraft is only used for extreme altitude HALO jumps, it will be ready to fly HALO missions around mid-September.

WOW

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Won't you need a positive pressure O2 system?  Just cannula won't work.

Bruno Schnedl

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10 hours ago, rdufokker said:

Won't you need a positive pressure O2 system?  Just cannula won't work.

Bruno Schnedl

https://www.skydivekingair.com/index.php?p=2800

I am not an O2 expert but after reading that, it sounds like these people are, and maybe you will find an answer there.

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Now it makes sense, the high cost of the plane is offset by being able to offer training flights to special forces operators needing to practice from those altitudes. Seems reasonable to beat the cost of using a C-17. I don't think a C-130 can go that high.

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On 8/26/2021 at 8:07 PM, sundevil777 said:

Now it makes sense, the high cost of the plane is offset by being able to offer training flights to special forces operators needing to practice from those altitudes. Seems reasonable to beat the cost of using a C-17. I don't think a C-130 can go that high.

Actually, no.  Military jumpers rarely go higher than 25,000'.  For the US Military it takes a General Officer's signature for jumps higher than 25,000', so I have been told by some knowledgeable military contacts. There is no market for military jumps from this aircraft.  This aircraft is to be used to make 41,000' jumps by those who can afford such jumps and wish to set records that will most likely stand forever.

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22 hours ago, michaelmullins said:

Actually, no.  Military jumpers rarely go higher than 25,000'.  For the US Military it takes a General Officer's signature for jumps higher than 25,000', so I have been told by some knowledgeable military contacts. There is no market for military jumps from this aircraft.  This aircraft is to be used to make 41,000' jumps by those who can afford such jumps and wish to set records that will most likely stand forever.

Might it also have been you really WANTED it!?

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2 minutes ago, sundevil777 said:

Might it also have been you really WANTED it!?

Perhaps the various AAD mfgs should be consulted regarding whether their units will decide something has gone haywire (bad data-climb rate too high to be believable), and shut off!  You never know...Ha!

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16 hours ago, sundevil777 said:

Perhaps the various AAD mfgs should be consulted regarding whether their units will decide something has gone haywire (bad data-climb rate too high to be believable), and shut off!  You never know...Ha!

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So... How much does a plane ticket to 41k go for these days?

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(edited)

We have attached our information and pricing sheet for the 41,000' jumps for both licensed and tandem skydivers.

Before you flame me about the price, I would suggest that you go purchase an aircraft for 41,000' jumps, maintain it to RVSM standards, purchase the associated oxygen equipment, and hire a pilot with the knowledge and experience to do this (such as me).  When you have done that, then you will be qualified to comment on the price.

Edited by michaelmullins
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