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docjohn

pulled cutaway handle on exit

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I'll further set the record straight since the I'm the goofy looking guy in the video.
Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm sure many of you would react in a variety of different ways if you were in my shoes so I'm only going to speak from my perspective/opinion.
Could the have been avoided? absolutely. But it wasn't, and that's one reason we're here, to learn.
The lesson here is to pay attention to your hands and where they're at on a dive, especially on exit. That, and accidents happen, no matter how much prevention is involved, they will still happen.
By posting a video of an accident that turned out okay, where every one landed safe, and the most damage that was done was a little dust on a freebag, and maybe some bruising to an ego (which it totally in check, there's no skygod mentality from bobtomcrap) We get the benefit to laugh along with learn. I know myself and everyone involved on the jump had a great learning experience and hopefully after chuckling at my expression, anyone that sees the video will too.
For those questioning the experience level of bobtomcrap, he's not a veteran cameraflyer but I've been on numerous jumps with him, including my tandem jumps. Without hesitation, I trust him completely to film me and my tandem students again. Jump numbers don't tell me much about ability, actions do, I know jumpers/videographer's that have a lot more time and jumps in their logbook, but I wouldn't trust them half as much as I trust bobtomcrap.

With that said, I also have the exclusive benefit of knowing my facial expression wasn't the funniest one on that jump. We rarely get to see the cameraman's face, and damn, I wish you could have. The look of terror and panic on his face as he was holding my cutaway handle was more than enough to show guilt and sorrow for his actions. And yes, I find that hilarious. Most anyone that knows me well would agree it's completely on par with my sense of humor to laugh my ass of about this after the appropriate conversations have been had.

After flying away from the camera (cutaway handle held against my body) I stuffed what I could down my jumpsuit, grabbed the extra wire flying about and put in in my teeth. Checked my altitude, went through a quick confirmation in my head to verify that there was no risk in leaving my main in the container, and deployed my reserve. My sweet flying, perfect opening, great flaring, Smart reserve.

My reaction in this video isn't terror or shock, it's surprise at what's in bobtomcrap's hand and an understanding of why he had that look on his face. Practicing my emergency procedures in a hanging harness only a few weeks earlier and discussing events similar to this at Safety Day helped me be completely prepared for an emergency situation that I was able to walk away from and laugh.

And oh yes, my reserve was due for a repack in 2 weeks so thanks for the free repack! ;)



I still find the whole thing hilarious based on your expression....made my day!

And yes- I can only find it funny because no one got hurt. I am sure they discussed and learned from it.
I woke up next to a blowup doll Ash....so what do you think?

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So provide us with the facts. How many jumps do you have? And how many with camera?



Who cares? ... or more importantly, why do you seem to care?



Why do you care why I care?

A statement was made that people are judging with out all the facts. I just asked the poster for some facts.

I wasn't mean about it. I wasn't accusatory about it. It was just a simple question.

So why are your panties all in a bunch?

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Who cares? ... or more importantly, why do you seem to care?



Why do you care why I care?



He cares because he's fighting in the new class-war of "Noobies vs. Oldbies". The Noobs are mad because they get yelled at for doing stupid shit with low jump numbers, not even knowing how stupid their shit is, and the "Oldbies" get a big laugh for doing stupid shit, even though they do know how stupid that shit is. The Noobs want the more experienced jumpers to get chewed out for their equally stupid shit.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Kevin K.
_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

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Hey ! Pull your skirt down your pussy is showing....
Did you not read what the two guys involved just posted ? No more questions needed after those explanations.....i've seen that happen to two guys that had over 8,000 jumps combined,,i've seen video of it happening during a hanging hybred jump,,,are you that simple minded ? You are skydiving not attached to a rail,,,hands and bodies move around ....go jump..stop trying to CSI this thing...:S

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

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Who cares? ... or more importantly, why do you seem to care?



Why do you care why I care?



He cares because he's fighting in the new class-war of "Noobies vs. Oldbies". The Noobs are mad because they get yelled at for doing stupid shit with low jump numbers, not even knowing how stupid their shit is, and the "Oldbies" get a big laugh for doing stupid shit, even though they do know how stupid that shit is. The Noobs want the more experienced jumpers to get chewed out for their equally stupid shit.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Kevin K.



i guess thats just half the truth
part of the "yelling at noobs" is based on the fact, that they want to have things by the book all the time without any room for admitted errors from people with more experience and they are still inquisitive (is that the right word???) up to the point of spliting hair.
you and I know both, that this stance is in no way realistic nor productive


(my humble 0,2s)
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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I'm going to respond to your post because it seems reasonable.

I simply wanted to find out some facts about the incident. People claim they want noobies to learn but when we try then we get chastised. And the double standard for the more experienced is quite evident.

I hate the word Skygod but I'm starting to understand why people tag others with it.

Had this guy stated that he only had 150 jumps with a camera, he would have been pummeled.

It's hypocracy at it's greatest.

I was a bit surprised that no one thinks that maybe the handle puller might be in over his head with the camera and all.

My family had a close friend who died after he got a premature deployment during a climb out for a linked exit years ago. Those involved believe it's
because of someone who took a grip on his harness instead of the gripper like the plan called for.

When you've buried someone who likely died because of someone else's mistake, you take on a perspective that most will hopefully never have.

I guess I'll just let this go. No lessons to be learned here.

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I guess I'll just let this go. No lessons to be learned here.

Well there are lessons to be learned, and they have already been highlighted.
Ragging on about it wont make those lessons any different.
The camera and jump numbers you are banging on about might be relevant given that the error was in the setup on the door. But it looks more like someone not taking a grip properly.

From the video, if I were on that jump i would have made the Camera guy the KEY, the guy in orange that keyed it did not have vision of the 2 behind, the camera guy had vision on all 3 other jumpers.
If he had given a swinging arm key (with his left arm), this accident would like have been avoided.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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I'm going to respond to your post because it seems reasonable.

I simply wanted to find out some facts about the incident. People claim they want noobies to learn but when we try then we get chastised. And the double standard for the more experienced is quite evident.

I hate the word Skygod but I'm starting to understand why people tag others with it.

Had this guy stated that he only had 150 jumps with a camera, he would have been pummeled.

It's hypocracy at it's greatest.

I was a bit surprised that no one thinks that maybe the handle puller might be in over his head with the camera and all.

My family had a close friend who died after he got a premature deployment during a climb out for a linked exit years ago. Those involved believe it's
because of someone who took a grip on his harness instead of the gripper like the plan called for.

When you've buried someone who likely died because of someone else's mistake, you take on a perspective that most will hopefully never have.

I guess I'll just let this go. No lessons to be learned here.



I really don't think that any jumper who has seen this clip is failing to see the potentially serious problem that resulted from this event. Incidents with bad endings can usually be traced back to that proverbial "series of events" leading to that ending. Even those of us who are cavalierly laughing our asses off over this video (and it really is funny!) are filing this in the back of our minds. I would just about bet that the next time any of you reaches out to take a grip on someone's harness (or if someone grabs yours!) you will replay this video over in your head. So a lesson is learned. I can think back over all of the things I've seen or stories I've heard since I've been jumping and take lessons from them, funny or not. Some need further discussion, others can be taken at face value. Which is which depends on the individual. Any jumper should be able to discuss any event or eventuality openly without worrying about whether he is going to be ridiculed or lambasted.

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not all facts are relevant



Ah, but not all relevance is fact, GrassPlanehopper.



Fixed it for ya.;)

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

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That is the funniest damn thing I have seen in a while. And all you guys with the overly dramatic comments about having 1 of his 2 chances to live taken away, go talk to a base jumper or take a base course and make a jump. You'll be pretty content with that one chute.

BS



Since I'm the one who was overly dramatic about losing 1 of my 2 chances, I'll respond.

My response has taken some time because I wanted to be sure that what I say does not come from the heat of the moment.

BASE rigs are different from skydiving rigs. They have different design goals, and they have different strengths and weaknesses.

Would you and your friends put on your BASE rigs and head for the plane to do some freeflying? Maybe I am mistaken, but I don't think you would.

If you read the recent Skydiver Advisory, you know that there have been enough cases of reserves failing to work for reasons as yet not determined, that there is some cause for concern.

If I was BASE jumping, my concerns would certainly be different.

But, in a skydiving rig, I don't want to give up any of my chances unless I absolutely must.

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Just to echo Paul I have to agree, this is different from base jumping. I trust my base gear FAR more than sky gear. Why? Because the entire rig is inspected before every jump and I pack it myself. I dont see anyone pulling out their reserve and doing checks on it before each jump. I actually would feel more comfortable skydiving with my single parachute base rig than i would jumping out of a plane with only a reserve. Reserves are packed much longer, are more complicated, most the time packed my someone else, and as Paul also mentioned there are still some unknown issues to work out.

Plus, BASE jumpers take on extra risk on their own. Rarely does a base jump offer risk to anyone except the jumper. In cases of skydiving there is a whole plane full of people.

I'm not trying to make a big deal out of this...i just really didnt like the comparison to BASE gear because its a completely different situation.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

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I didn't mention anything about a base rig. It was in reference to similarities of reserves and base specific pack jobs. Heck the argument could go on ad nauseum, if we wore 6 parachutes and one was taken away we would be less safe. My comment was one aimed more at the Melo-dramatic comments about only having a reserve. I don't know what the facts are as it relates to reserves alone failing, but I would guess it's in the ballpark of losing your brakes on your car. These odds aren't worth getting overly dramatic about. And if you are too worried about the failure rate of reserves, lets all wear a belly wart with no spring loaded pilot chute. Just dig in grab a handful of reserve and toss, like we did in the good old days!!!
Irony: "the History and Trivia section hijacked by the D.B. Cooper thread"

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It's funny cause everyone is ok.
Had he been hurt at all, I bet you would find people singing a different tune.



There's another thread where typical DZ.comers bash a 100 jump guy with a GoPro who ditched his helmet before cutaway, yet he is all ok and well and nobody else was hurt as well.. This can be an exactly same analogy, because next time this guy can pull his friends RESERVE handle on exit instead of a cutaway, now that would make for a "fun" video wouldn't it?

As I pointed out in another thread, it's all about jump numbers here, if you're below 200, you're gonna be bashed no matter what you do, above that and you're in the cool zone..



The 2 participants in this brilliant sky dance instantly knew what happened and within a second did necessary right movements - cool, cold blooded and professionally. Great to watch it in slomo. They knew where and why one of them went wrong.

Did the 100 jump wonder with the GoPro do the same? Surely not. He just was a lucky dude.

He still is fighting for his right to be right, even he's not and still is sure, he made everything fully correct and is unwilling to learn.

That's the difference.

What are "..... typical DZ.comers..." ?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

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I didn't mention anything about a base rig. It was in reference to similarities of reserves and base specific pack jobs. Heck the argument could go on ad nauseum, if we wore 6 parachutes and one was taken away we would be less safe. My comment was one aimed more at the Melo-dramatic comments about only having a reserve. I don't know what the facts are as it relates to reserves alone failing, but I would guess it's in the ballpark of losing your brakes on your car. These odds aren't worth getting overly dramatic about. And if you are too worried about the failure rate of reserves, lets all wear a belly wart with no spring loaded pilot chute. Just dig in grab a handful of reserve and toss, like we did in the good old days!!!



Do you take your skydiving rig on a BASE jump?

If it is reliable as you say, why not?

I never said I want 3 parachutes.

But I don't want anybody to take one away from me either.

The remoteness of the possibility will mean nothing to you when you are the one going in.

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I didn't mention anything about a base rig. It was in reference to similarities of reserves and base specific pack jobs. Heck the argument could go on ad nauseum, if we wore 6 parachutes and one was taken away we would be less safe. My comment was one aimed more at the Melo-dramatic comments about only having a reserve. I don't know what the facts are as it relates to reserves alone failing, but I would guess it's in the ballpark of losing your brakes on your car. These odds aren't worth getting overly dramatic about. And if you are too worried about the failure rate of reserves, lets all wear a belly wart with no spring loaded pilot chute. Just dig in grab a handful of reserve and toss, like we did in the good old days!!!



(I have edited post to ask the question better. Sure, some in-plane rigging is a possibility, and I've done it myself. So, please let me ask the question a bit differently.)

If your cutaway handle got pulled while you were still in the airplane, would you jump without fixing it?

Imagine you were at the end of a long line heading for the door of the DC-3, and you noticed it then, would you jump anyway? Or would you stop to fix it and miss your group?

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If your cutaway handle got pulled while you were still in the airplane, would you jump?



Yes. After a bit of in plane rigging. ;)



ETA: I would still be angry about someone pulling my handle!! And I would be plenty pissed if somebody pulled it on or after exit as it's avoidable. A little something called awareness.
"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

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I didn't mention anything about a base rig.



Actually, yes you did.

You said,

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go talk to a BASE jumper or take a base course and make a jump. You'll be pretty content with that one chute.



If I take a BASE course, and I make a jump with "that one chute", you are talking about a BASE rig.

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