riggerrob 558 #26 July 27, 2021 19 hours ago, skydiverek said: Similar situation analyzed here (9 years ago): https://www.flyaerodyne.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/TB_ReserveActivationEvaluation1112.pdf . Reserve closing loop was 7/8" longer than normal for a solo Icon. When in doubt, install 4.5" closing loops in reserves (Icon, Mirage, Sidewinder, Vector, etc.). javelins use closing loops about half that length. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siegfriedewargny 0 #27 August 3, 2021 On 7/26/2021 at 10:12 PM, skydiverek said: Similar situation analyzed here (9 years ago): https://www.flyaerodyne.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/TB_ReserveActivationEvaluation1112.pdf . No because everytime it does not work, the Icon rig was worn on jumper's back, anyway Aerodyne does not explain why it does not work as it should, in the document Aerodyne only says : you should not do this ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #28 August 3, 2021 We need a popcorn emoticon. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IJskonijn 38 #29 August 4, 2021 On 8/3/2021 at 11:04 AM, siegfriedewargny said: No because everytime it does not work, the Icon rig was worn on jumper's back, anyway Aerodyne does not explain why it does not work as it should, in the document Aerodyne only says : you should not do this ... There are thousands of possible reasons for a reserve hesitation that are NOT the fault of the manufacturer. I'm not saying that it cannot possibly ever be the fault of the manufacturer, but I AM saying that you're jumping to conclusions awfully fast. And Aerodyne does indicate why an excessive long closing loop is bad: it doesn't compress the pilot chute fully and reduces its effectiveness significantly. If we as riggers in the world are to improve the safety of skydiving equipment everywhere, we need to keep an open mind AND be thorough, detailed and open in our analysis. Baseless accusations are worth less than the electricity used to transmit them. If you want me to take you seriously, show what that rig is exactly. What reserve is in it? What main is it in? What AAD is in it? What length is the closing loop? What size exactly is the rig? How was it packed? How was it tested? What exactly did you observe in the failures? Where did stuff catch that wasn't supposed to catch? It's like high school math, just writing down the final number is not enough, you've got to show the work done. Pretty please with sugar on top, show the f*ing details. Otherwise, I'm bringing the beer to Baksteen's popcorn party. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #30 August 4, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, IJskonijn said: There are thousands of possible reasons for a reserve hesitation that are NOT the fault of the manufacturer. I'm not saying that it cannot possibly ever be the fault of the manufacturer, but I AM saying that you're jumping to conclusions awfully fast. And Aerodyne does indicate why an excessive long closing loop is bad: it doesn't compress the pilot chute fully and reduces its effectiveness significantly. If we as riggers in the world are to improve the safety of skydiving equipment everywhere, we need to keep an open mind AND be thorough, detailed and open in our analysis. Baseless accusations are worth less than the electricity used to transmit them. If you want me to take you seriously, show what that rig is exactly. What reserve is in it? What main is it in? What AAD is in it? What length is the closing loop? What size exactly is the rig? How was it packed? How was it tested? What exactly did you observe in the failures? Where did stuff catch that wasn't supposed to catch? It's like high school math, just writing down the final number is not enough, you've got to show the work done. Pretty please with sugar on top, show the f*ing details. Otherwise, I'm bringing the beer to Baksteen's popcorn party. Did anyone address what that metal pull-up slotted plate was doing in there? A person could conclude the video was intentionally set-up to fail, but the plate just fell out so obviously? Edited August 4, 2021 by sundevil777 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabiendonato 0 #31 August 6, 2021 On 8/3/2021 at 3:39 PM, Baksteen said: We need a popcorn emoticon. Popcorn emoticon ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #32 August 6, 2021 10 hours ago, Fabiendonato said: Popcorn emoticon ? Hi F, Jerry Baumchen 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabiendonato 0 #33 August 11, 2021 On 8/3/2021 at 11:04 AM, siegfriedewargny said: No because everytime it does not work, the Icon rig was worn on jumper's back, anyway Aerodyne does not explain why it does not work as it should, in the document Aerodyne only says : you should not do this ... Icon rig, the whole rig is a bad copy of every other rig on the market..no real ingeeniring behind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #34 August 14, 2021 Please try to bring data, not opinions, to the discussion. That would include things like answering the questions about what the metal thing was coming out, how a rig was packed, and other things. "XXX sucks donkey dogs" is not data. Wendy P. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeanneretjerome 24 #35 August 17, 2021 I feel that this is bashing and probably defamation against the manufacturer. It seems that the intent of these persons is to keep the tread active to damage the reputation of Icon. Without proper facts and answers to the "piece of metal" question, the moderator should probably intervene, warn the users and delete the thread. Be safe all, jerome. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,902 #36 August 17, 2021 2 hours ago, jeanneretjerome said: I feel that this is bashing and probably defamation against the manufacturer. It seems that the intent of these persons is to keep the tread active to damage the reputation of Icon. Without proper facts and answers to the "piece of metal" question, the moderator should probably intervene, warn the users and delete the thread. Be safe all, jerome. You just made it active again, as I am doing too. Every time someone comments the thread moves to the top of the list. There is probably no chance that it will be removed so just move on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #37 August 17, 2021 The moderator has already spoken and is watching. Wendy P. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gperret 0 #38 August 19, 2021 On 7/25/2021 at 4:30 PM, gowlerk said: Is this not the same thing that was addressed in the recent AD issued for some student containers from UPT? Yes it is the same, except it issued an AD for Vector SE and not for the Icon yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabiendonato 0 #39 August 22, 2021 On 7/23/2021 at 3:27 PM, gowlerk said: Brand bashing is traditional here, and I see you have been on FB as well. It's nice to see a new target for a change. why not buying the original ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #40 August 22, 2021 12 hours ago, Fabiendonato said: why not buying the original ? I’ll let you think about it. Hint, it is TSO related. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #41 August 22, 2021 2 hours ago, piisfish said: I’ll let you think about it. Hint, it is TSO related. When Aerodyne reformed - and got a bunch of R&D funding - they hired the best designers from Parachutes de France, ergo Icons look like P. de F. Atoms. Back during the 1980s, P. de F. led the world with zero-stretch suspension lines, zero-porosity fabric, tapered canopies, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fabiendonato 0 #42 September 1, 2021 (edited) On 7/23/2021 at 4:54 AM, sfzombie13 said: that's even worse than the first video. hell, i can take a picture of my rig like that with the right shit stuffed inside. Icon rigs are the only rigs not authorized to use by French Army, Navy National Gendarmerie for years, for the only reason the rig is unsafe this does not provide additional information. This thread is locked. Edited September 1, 2021 by wmw999 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
