wmw999 2,120 #327 July 13, 2022 It really happened, because it's on video. Well, audio at least. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #328 July 14, 2022 Not suspicious at all. The Intercept: Secret Service Deleted Jan. 6 Text Messages After Oversight Officials Requested Them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #329 July 15, 2022 14 hours ago, ryoder said: Not suspicious at all. The Intercept: Secret Service Deleted Jan. 6 Text Messages After Oversight Officials Requested Them So let's see them charged with 'tampering with evidence'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #330 July 15, 2022 4 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said: So let's see them charged with 'tampering with evidence'. That will never happen. How could they possibly protect a President when they can freely text about sedition? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,297 #331 July 16, 2022 On 7/14/2022 at 4:19 PM, ryoder said: Not suspicious at all. The Intercept: Secret Service Deleted Jan. 6 Text Messages After Oversight Officials Requested Them So, in all fairness they are the Secret Service. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 910 #332 July 16, 2022 (edited) On 7/14/2022 at 5:19 PM, ryoder said: Not suspicious at all. The Intercept: Secret Service Deleted Jan. 6 Text Messages After Oversight Officials Requested Them 14 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said: So let's see them charged with 'tampering with evidence'. Probably just drunk as usual. Drunk Secret Service agents crash into White House barrier Biden Secret Service agents sent home after drunk assault report in South Korea The woman told police the US Secret Service Counter Assault Team member assaulted her when she told him he was drunk They probably didn't want to take trump to the capitol building because it would interfere with drinking in the WH basement. Edited July 16, 2022 by Phil1111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,297 #333 July 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Phil1111 said: Probably just drunk as usual. Drunk Secret Service agents crash into White House barrier Biden Secret Service agents sent home after drunk assault report in South Korea The woman told police the US Secret Service Counter Assault Team member assaulted her when she told him he was drunk They probably didn't want to take trump to the capitol building because it would interfere with drinking in the WH basement. Meanwhile, back at the distraction, two more brain dead jerk off's were sentenced to 44 months in prison. Hey, but more evidence is coming in and fewer people are watching. At least we have super awesome Fani Willis in Georgia on the job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #334 July 16, 2022 On 7/13/2022 at 1:02 PM, JoeWeber said: I am properly pissed off that we're 18 months since an obvious coup attempt by a sitting US President and all we've done is put some hot headed morons in the can. There is no obvious indication that the DOJ will do anything beyond deploring the whole sorry mess. That's probably because the DOJ actually understands legal definitions. Insurrection; yes. Sedition; yes. ...but 2000 civilian nutters does not make a coup. Even a 'Trump told them to do it' argument would be a tough sell as no direct authority exists by a president over a civilian that compels them to the action. The chief prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements. On that day Trump already had legal control of all those forces and did not use them to usurp control at the Capitol and did not countermand Pence's call for the National Guard. DOJ knows this even if Speaker's Corner does not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #335 July 16, 2022 48 minutes ago, metalslug said: The chief prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements. No it isn’t. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #336 July 16, 2022 Groan. I had thought Ken Buck was one of the less insane GOP people in CO, but I was obviously wrong. Buck represents CO District 4, which is the sparsely populated Eastern plains of CO. El Paso county is the area around Colorado Springs. GOP chair in El Paso County says Congressman Ken Buck told him to submit false election results Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,047 #337 July 16, 2022 12 hours ago, metalslug said: That's probably because the DOJ actually understands legal definitions. Insurrection; yes. Sedition; yes. ...but 2000 civilian nutters does not make a coup. Even a 'Trump told them to do it' argument would be a tough sell as no direct authority exists by a president over a civilian that compels them to the action. The chief prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements. On that day Trump already had legal control of all those forces and did not use them to usurp control at the Capitol and did not countermand Pence's call for the National Guard. DOJ knows this even if Speaker's Corner does not. Hi slug, If I tell a friend to burn my neighbor's house down, I am complicit. IMO the fact that Trump was POTUS at the time means nothing. If he was legally involved, he was legally involved. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,297 #338 July 16, 2022 39 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi slug, If I tell a friend to burn my neighbor's house down, I am complicit. IMO the fact that Trump was POTUS at the time means nothing. If he was legally involved, he was legally involved. Jerry Baumchen For sure. But while we're arguing that, let's just charge the bastard with manslaughter. Surely after Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony that charge can be legitimately made. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,394 #339 July 17, 2022 18 hours ago, metalslug said: .but 2000 civilian nutters does not make a coup. So if a people took over a Capitol and the armed forces bases nearby, killed/imprisoned all the lawmakers and military leaders, and installed themselves as the new government - in your mind that would not be a coup? Interesting. But in any case, since there were military nutters involved - including active duty - your argument isn't really applicable. When an active duty Marine major is part of the attempted coup you can't claim no military involvement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #340 July 17, 2022 5 hours ago, billvon said: So if a people took over a Capitol and the armed forces bases nearby, killed/imprisoned all the lawmakers and military leaders, and installed themselves as the new government - in your mind that would not be a coup? But that's not what happened. Besides that fact; Were you not even reading the post? ; "...prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements." Taking over (control of) the armed forces and neutralising (existing) military leaders is almost exactly what I said does constitute a coup. Please try to keep up. 11 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Surely after Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony that charge can be legitimately made. FYI Cassidy Hutchinson wasn't even there and the agents who were there dispute it. They might as well ask you to testify to the event as I'm sure you also 'heard about it' somewhere. 11 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said: IMO the fact that Trump was POTUS at the time means nothing. If he was legally involved, he was legally involved. Hence why the DOJ has not charged him. It's also evident why yourself, bill & Joe are not contracted to the DOJ for your legal expertise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,297 #341 July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, metalslug said: But that's not what happened. Besides that fact; Were you not even reading the post? ; "...prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements." Taking over (control of) the armed forces and neutralising (existing) military leaders is almost exactly what I said does constitute a coup. Please try to keep up. FYI Cassidy Hutchinson wasn't even there and the agents who were there dispute it. They might as well ask you to testify to the event as I'm sure you also 'heard about it' somewhere. Hence why the DOJ has not charged him. It's also evident why yourself, bill & Joe are not contracted to the DOJ for your legal expertise. The Secret Service agents? She testified that Trump wanted the "mags" removed so armed thugs could enter the Ellipse. On a final note, I will never reply again to you on a serious matter when you play the game of using a multi-quote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #342 July 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: The Secret Service agents? She testified that Trump wanted the "mags" removed so armed thugs could enter the Ellipse. On a final note, I will never reply again to you on a serious matter when you play the game of using a multi-quote. Fair enough. She had given testimony on more than one event and you had not specified which. I retract my reply to your comment. The 'multi-quote' is not a 'game', it's a forum feature. You can edit my quoted reply down to the relevant lines that you wish to reply to or you're of course welcome to withhold replies. None of us here owe each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,297 #343 July 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, metalslug said: Fair enough. She had given testimony on more than one event and you had not specified which. I retract my reply to your comment. The 'multi-quote' is not a 'game', it's a forum feature. You can edit my quoted reply down to the relevant lines that you wish to reply to or you're of course welcome to withhold replies. None of us here owe each other. d'accord. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #344 July 17, 2022 2 hours ago, metalslug said: But that's not what happened. Besides that fact; Were you not even reading the post? ; "...prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements." Taking over (control of) the armed forces and neutralising (existing) military leaders is almost exactly what I said does constitute a coup. Please try to keep up. If the Jan 6th coup attempt had worked, Trump would have maintained control of all those things when he wasn’t supposed to. That’s a coup. What you are actually arguing here is that Jan 6th was not a successful coup. No shit, Captain Obvious. Any other difficult concepts you need to explain to us like what colour grass is, or whether rain falls up or down? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #345 July 17, 2022 24 minutes ago, jakee said: Any other difficult concepts you need to explain to us like what colour grass is, or whether rain falls up or down? You have repeatedly demonstrated a need for such explanations being fed to you. This is why I'll rather defer to the DOJ's judgement over yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #346 July 17, 2022 2 hours ago, metalslug said: Taking over (control of) the armed forces and neutralising (existing) military leaders is almost exactly what I said does constitute a coup. Please try to keep up. You do realise that takeovers by existing military leaders are the most common type of coup, right? Since, according to you, that is almost exactly what does not constitute a coup, what is it? What happened in Myanmar last year if it wasn’t a coup? If it wasn’t a coup, was it legal? See, this is what happens when your only goal is to force logic to fit whatever narrative the radical right wing media is currently feeding you. You just start arguing against reality and demonstrating (yet again) that you don’t have a clue what the concepts you’re spouting off about actually mean. You don’t know what cancel culture is, you don’t know what Woke is, and now you don’t even know what a coup is. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #347 July 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, metalslug said: You have repeatedly demonstrated a need for such explanations being fed to you. This is why I'll rather defer to the DOJ's judgement over yours. You know that there are huge taboos, complexities and constitutional uncertainties in the US over charging a President with anything at all? That a President not been my charged with something in no way implies he didn’t do something? I fear that explanation is a step too far for you at the moment though. You need more work on the basics first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #348 July 17, 2022 1 hour ago, jakee said: That a President not been my charged with something in no way implies he didn’t do something? ..and lefty fantasies do not imply that he did do something. Believing that a mere 2000 civilian yahoos in mob formation constitutes a viable coup attempt against a force as significant as the US... is like trying to make a legal argument that a spitwad strike constitutes 'attempted murder'. Good luck with that in any court of learned legal judgement. You really should leave this one to the professionals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 420 #349 July 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, metalslug said: Believing that a mere 2000 civilian yahoos in mob formation constitutes a viable coup attempt against a force as significant as the US Armed civilian yahoos. And they weren't up against the full force of the US Military, they were up against the unarmed Congress and their vastly outnumbered security. The timing and location was extremely strategic. That the execution was completely screwed up doesn't make the intention go away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #350 July 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, metalslug said: ..and lefty fantasies do not imply that he did do something. Believing that a mere 2000 civilian yahoos in mob formation constitutes a viable coup attempt First, you missed out the part where it was happening in concert with a coordinated attempt to manipulate constitutional procedure and subvert the election results. Second, I’ve highlighted the word that proves my first reply to you was correct. You’re not arguing that it wasn’t a coup attempt, you’re arguing that it was not a successful coup. Again, no shit Captain Obvious. Here’s a concept that needs to be fed to you, being a competent criminal is not a prerequisite for committing a crime. Many, many, many criminals are apprehended, charged and convicted because the criminal schemes they attempt to carry out are not viable. 24 minutes ago, metalslug said: You really should leave this one to the professionals. Baaaaahahahaha! Like you? A man so caught up in presenting twisted right wing excuses as fact that he is currently denying that military coups are coups? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites