Woke is a Joke

[base698 3]

42 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

You think identifying as trans has less social pressures and stigma than being homosexual?

Seriously?

If they pass as cis yes, if they are a troon no.  There are trans people that fall into that group.

[wolfriverjoe 1,463]

5 minutes ago, base698 said:

If they pass as cis yes, if they are a troon no.  There are trans people that fall into that group.

What is a 'troon'?

It's rarely all that difficult to recognize trans folks.

At most, they're pretty androgynous.
Although there are lots and lots of androgynous types out there too.

[SkyDekker 1,294]

59 minutes ago, base698 said:

In addition, there are malevolent groups within the umbrella that should also not be encouraged.

Considering the far majority of rape is committed by cis gendered males, maybe we shouldn't encourage that?

Considering the far majority of violent crime is committed by cis gendered males, maybe we shouldn't encourage that?

[base698 3]

27 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

What is a 'troon'?

A particularly unattractive trans that doesn't pass as their identified gender.  

Edited August 13 by base698

[base698 3]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Every single group has bad actors that we deal with through the legal system.  I don't see this as any different.

It is different because everyone puts it under a single umbrella and you get labeled a bigot for pointing it out.

[wolfriverjoe 1,463]

12 minutes ago, base698 said:

It is different because everyone puts it under a single umbrella and you get labeled a bigot for pointing it out.

Not that I've ever seen. I've known of a few trans and/or gay folk that were 'bad actors' and got called out for their behavior, not for their sexual orientation.

People get labeled 'a bigot' for..

Being a bigot.
You know, like this:

13 minutes ago, base698 said:

A particularly unattractive trans that doesn't pass as their identified gender.  

 

[base698 3]

22 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Considering the far majority of rape is committed by cis gendered males, maybe we shouldn't encourage that?

Sure and then we grow babies in a lab?

The point was utilitarian.  You have 1 legitimate non-malevolent trans person for every 300 kids  doing it to be fashionable.  If there were 1 nice cisgendered male for every 300 rapists, then yeah it would be the same.

 

[base698 3]

15 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

People get labeled 'a bigot' for..

Being a bigot.
You know, like this:

If you want a 6'2" 230 lbs dude in the women's room I can see why you're so defensive.  It's typically used in that context.  

[wolfriverjoe 1,463]

13 minutes ago, base698 said:

If you want a 6'2" 230 lbs dude in the women's room I can see why you're so defensive.  It's typically used in that context.  

Wow. More bigotry.
As noted above, when a "6'2" 230 lbs dude" is in the women's room, it's usually a rapist.

If a very large, masculine appearing trans woman is in the women's room, it's usually because she has to pee.

Typically, however, trans women, especially the masculine looking ones, will either use the individual "family" restroom or just wait until they get home.

Because the hysterical bigotry tends to get tiresome.

[wmw999 2,318]

23 minutes ago, base698 said:

Sure and then we grow babies in a lab?

The point was utilitarian.  You have 1 legitimate non-malevolent trans person for every 300 kids  doing it to be fashionable.  If there were 1 nice cisgendered male for every 300 rapists, then yeah it would be the same.

 

Where exactly do you get that number? Because I rather doubt that only 1 out of every 300 transgender-identifying individuals are "legitimate." I'm not sure you're the be-all and end-all of judges of who's "really" transgender. 

I have a transgender nibling. Her contention is that gender is an invalid box with which to classify her, because nothing feels right. This has been true for her since she was 13, 17 years ago. It wasn't "fashionable" then, it was difficult and disruptive to her life.

Maybe the reason it's fashionable now, just like the "sudden increase in homosexuality" is because it's less likely to get you killed to be brave enough to say what you are.

Wendy P.

[nigel99 296]

24 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Where exactly do you get that number? Because I rather doubt that only 1 out of every 300 transgender-identifying individuals are "legitimate." I'm not sure you're the be-all and end-all of judges of who's "really" transgender. 

I have a transgender nibling. Her contention is that gender is an invalid box with which to classify her, because nothing feels right. This has been true for her since she was 13, 17 years ago. It wasn't "fashionable" then, it was difficult and disruptive to her life.

Maybe the reason it's fashionable now, just like the "sudden increase in homosexuality" is because it's less likely to get you killed to be brave enough to say what you are.

Wendy P.

I’ll admit I am really torn on transgender, maybe I’m old and close minded. I don’t understand it to a large extent, and they do appear to struggle with mental health a lot as a community . I volunteered on a suicide helpline for a year and although I don’t have statistics, there seemed to be a disproportionate amount of callers from that demographic. Of course that can be caused by bullying and prejudice and I’m not making assumption on the cause.

One of my psych professors is a strong advocate of puberty blockers with her reasoning that hitting puberty with gender dismorphia has a profound negative psychological effect including PTSD. I really struggle with the concept that a 10-12 year old child “knows” what they want in life - my 24 year old son still hasn’t figured it out :)

This isn’t a judgement on transgender people , more an admission of lack of understanding. It’s also very low on my care factor radar, your body, your choice, go on a live your life.

As far as discrimination goes here in Western Australia, my son is discriminated against far more than any trans person due to having face tattoos. There are many venues that literally will not allow entry, and he can’t get work. There’s a back story to the tattoos, mental health issues and other drivers, yes it was his choice as an 18 year old. 

[billvon 2,739]

4 hours ago, base698 said:

It is different because everyone puts it under a single umbrella and you get labeled a bigot for pointing it out.

Nope.  No one gets called a bigot for labeling a rapist as a rapist, for example.  Only by saying that all trans men (or all blacks, or all Mexicans) are rapists. 

See the difference?

[JoeWeber 2,571]

In 1972 I was an acting assistant manager at a pizza joint. The manager wasted himself on a motorcycle and the assistant manager was off with a broken wrist. It fell to me hire staff. A very huge, not looking very girl, person applied and in our interview was really smart, you know like fun to talk to. I hired her and immediately faced immense push back, like they called her "the hockey player" etc. I lost a few more staff as a consequence. The owner, who had three other stores, called me in and told me I did the right thing.  I will never forget that.

[jakee 1,350]

6 hours ago, base698 said:

You have 1 legitimate non-malevolent trans person for every 300 kids  doing it to be fashionable. 

Do you? Says who?

[olofscience 464]

10 hours ago, base698 said:

Sure and then we grow babies in a lab?

"cis men rape women" and you just shrug and say it's ok because men are needed to make babies?

With that logic you can say all murder is OK because it helps keep the population down.

 

Or an example you can relate with more - "Immigrants doing crimes are OK because they do important work anyway, otherwise, what would we do? Pick crops ourselves?".

Edited August 14 by olofscience

[base698 3]

2 hours ago, olofscience said:

Or an example you can relate with more - "Immigrants doing crimes are OK because they do important work anyway, otherwise, what would we do? Pick crops ourselves?".

Why would I relate more with this example?

[base698 3]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

Nope.  No one gets called a bigot for labeling a rapist as a rapist, for example.  Only by saying that all trans men (or all blacks, or all Mexicans) are rapists. 

See the difference?

In the example above I noted lots of classes of trans people.  One of the many I noted were perverts.  These are trans only for the opportunity of invading women's spaces.  I allowed many other types of trans for a variety of reasons.

 

[base698 3]

12 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Where exactly do you get that number? Because I rather doubt that only 1 out of every 300 transgender-identifying individuals are "legitimate." I'm not sure you're the be-all and end-all of judges of who's "really" transgender. 

Growing up prior to 2010 I knew 3 trans people, one in college and 2 skydivers (if you discount drag shows I was in attendance).  Current Google numbers state something like a fraction of 1% identify as transgender.  IIRC in the past it was something like 1 in 30,0000.  At any rate it's probably between 1 in 100 and 1 in 30,000.  That is way way lower than 1 in 5 you see in some younger populations.

My argument was the current trans movement is trying to protect 1 in 100 at best at the expense of the 1 in 5.

[normiss 724]

6 minutes ago, base698 said:

In the example above I noted lots of classes of trans people.  One of the many I noted were perverts.  These are trans only for the opportunity of invading women's spaces.  I allowed many other types of trans for a variety of reasons.

 

Well aren't you special.

Wow. So considerate. /s

[wolfriverjoe 1,463]

12 hours ago, nigel99 said:

... I really struggle with the concept that a 10-12 year old child “knows” what they want in life - my 24 year old son still hasn’t figured it out :)...

Well, I still really haven't figured out what I want to be 'when I grow up', but there were certain things that I knew at a fairly young age. 

I discovered that girls were soft, pretty and smelled nice in about 4th grade. 

This was never a 'decision', it was just what was (for me).

There should be a thorough evaluation process (which is well established) before any medical treatment,  but to pretend that:

 

1 - they don't know or understand how they feel 

 

2 - they're doing it 'for attention' or 'because it's fashionable' 

 

Is really stupid.

Funny how most of the people who maintain those attitudes are (by your own admission) either older and closed minded or blatant bigots.

17 minutes ago, base698 said:

Growing up prior to 2010 I knew 3 trans people, one in college and 2 skydivers (if you discount drag shows I was in attendance). 

I'd bet you knew a LOT more trans people than that.  They just kept it quiet.

[olofscience 464]

1 hour ago, base698 said:

One of the many I noted were perverts.  These are trans only for the opportunity of invading women's spaces.

When I see women's spaces being invaded, 100% of the time it's by men, not trans women.

A lot of men are perverts and most of them don't bother all that trouble of transitioning just for invading women's spaces - they just invade them.

 

1 hour ago, base698 said:

Why would I relate more with this example?

I stand corrected, looks like you didn't understand my point either way...

[SkyDekker 1,294]

15 hours ago, base698 said:

Sure and then we grow babies in a lab?

The point was utilitarian.  You have 1 legitimate non-malevolent trans person for every 300 kids  doing it to be fashionable.  If there were 1 nice cisgendered male for every 300 rapists, then yeah it would be the same.

 

I mean we can all just make up some numbers. Considering pretty much every woman can tell you about a time she has been sexually assaulted by a cis gendered male, your number might not actually be too far off.

[nigel99 296]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, I still really haven't figured out what I want to be 'when I grow up', but there were certain things that I knew at a fairly young age. 

I discovered that girls were soft, pretty and smelled nice in about 4th grade. 

This was never a 'decision', it was just what was (for me).

There should be a thorough evaluation process (which is well established) before any medical treatment,  but to pretend that:

 

1 - they don't know or understand how they feel 

 

2 - they're doing it 'for attention' or 'because it's fashionable' 

 

Is really stupid.

Funny how most of the people who maintain those attitudes are (by your own admission) either older and closed minded or blatant bigots.

I'd bet you knew a LOT more trans people than that.  They just kept it quiet.

I definitely don’t believe it’s attention seeking behaviour or fashionable. I have no doubt that those kids have very strong mixed up emotions and it can’t be pleasant. 

If I get your argument correctly, it would appear that you would likely disagree with age of consent laws, drinking age, tattoos and voting age laws? If not then what is the difference and how do you justify that you could change gender but not be mature enough for the others?

I would never deny an adult the right to do what they want, and defend their right to do so. Just because I don’t understand it, doesn’t mean I judge them for their choices.

[winsor 224]

16 hours ago, base698 said:

A particularly unattractive trans that doesn't pass as their identified gender.  

Think Richard/Rachel Levine.

[billvon 2,739]

15 minutes ago, nigel99 said:

If I get your argument correctly, it would appear that you would likely disagree with age of consent laws, drinking age, tattoos and voting age laws?

To take one example, I think the drinking age laws make sense.  But if the child is drinking WITH THE PARENT then that should be an exception, because that's a better environment for them to learn about drinking in.  And, generally, there is that exception.  Kids can't buy alcohol but it is not illegal for an under-18 person to drink alcohol at home.

I take a similar approach to gender-affirming care.