Woke is a Joke

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

4 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

Great post; I could not have put it better.

I am legally Gerald; a name that I truly despise.  I am 'almost' always called Jerry; my preferred name.  I do not like to be called Jer; I really despise that one.

All of you are warned.  

'Jerry' Baumchen

 

Hi Jerry,

On a reversal of you, a friend's brother is named Gerald. His dad was also Gerald,  but went exclusively by Gerry.

The younger Gerald absolutely refuses to be called Gerry, because of issues with his dad (they were estranged for a long time).

[gowlerk 1,903]

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I am legally Gerald; a name that I truly despise.  I am 'almost' always called Jerry; my preferred name.  I do not like to be called Jer; I really despise that one.

Hi Jerry, although I don't see why it's not Gerry.

    My mother named me Kenneth. The thing about that is I can be Kenneth, Kenny, or Ken. I don't mind any of them but I have learned to pay attention to which one I am called. Generally if someone calls me Kenneth it is because they don't know me and are reading from a form of some kind. Often they are, or suppose they are, some kind of authority figure. Starting of course with my parents. If I get called Kenneth there is a good chance I am in some sort of conflict with them. If someone calls me Kenny I immediately know that they want something from me. In normal times I am called Ken. Or gowlerk.  

[billvon 2,391]

5 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

So we agreed that "Dr Emily" was what I would call her.

When Amy was working at the VA, all the veterans would call her a nurse.  "Excuse me nurse!  Miss!  Nurse!  Hey, baby!"

It got old after a while.  She told one repeat offender "if you're going to call me baby, you have to call me Dr. Baby."

He thought that was great and used it whenever he could - which accomplished her goal.

Quote

(Jerry said) I named both of my children ( with my then wife's approval ) with names that are very difficult to turn into nicknames. 

I have a friend who named her kids names that were somewhat ambiguous; you couldn't tell whether they were male or female names.  That way they can avoid the whole "women get interviewed less often even with the same resume" problem.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

32 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Hi Jerry, although I don't see why it's not Gerry.

    My mother named me Kenneth. The thing about that is I can be Kenneth, Kenny, or Ken. I don't mind any of them but I have learned to pay attention to which one I am called. Generally if someone calls me Kenneth it is because they don't know me and are reading from a form of some kind. Often they are, or suppose they are, some kind of authority figure. Starting of course with my parents. If I get called Kenneth there is a good chance I am in some sort of conflict with them. If someone calls me Kenny I immediately know that they want something from me. In normal times I am called Ken. Or gowlerk.  

Hi Ken,

Re:  although I don't see why it's not Gerry.

For the most part Gerry or Gerri, is a nickname for a woman; i.e., someone who's birth name would Geraldine.

When you are a Gerald => Jerry, you tend to notice those things.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Over the years I have noticed quite a few people named Jerome who also go by Jerry.  It is what it is.

PPS)  I once asked J. Scott Hamilton if he preferred to be called Scott, Scotty or Hey you.  He replied, 'Yup.'

[BIGUN 1,051]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

My mother named me Kenneth. The thing about that is I can be Kenneth, Kenny, or Ken. I don't mind any of them but I have learned to pay attention to which one I am called.

My mother named me Keith. The thing about that is I can be Keith, Asshole or Fucker. I don't mind any of them but I have learned to pay attention to which one I am called. It's situationally dependent.   

[gowlerk 1,903]

31 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

My mother named me Keith. The thing about that is I can be Keith, Asshole or Fucker. I don't mind any of them but I have learned to pay attention to which one I am called. It's situationally dependent.   

Being called asshole can mean so many different things........

[winsor 186]

I know, I know, this isn't what the Woke crowd really mean, but the objections sound like the old joke about someone at a comedians convention who tried the abbreviated version and got crickets - "you didn't tell it right."

Anyway, this:

https://justthenews.com/accountability/watchdogs/female-prisoners-sue-california-censoring-complaints-about-anatomically?utm_source=justthenews.com&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=external-news-aggregators

is one outcome of the 'not sure if he's a boy or a girl' movement.

Woke is a humorless version of Theater of the Absurd.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[winsor 186]

10 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Being called asshole can mean so many different things........

Maybe 35 years ago I was with a group of jumpers at a pizza joint at the end of the day.

Someone walked in, yelled "Hey Asshole!!"

Over half the diners turned to him and yelled "What?!"

My intro to the Muff Brothers.

[jakee 1,254]

3 hours ago, winsor said:

Woke is a humorless version of Theater of the Absurd.

I just gotta wonder why you keep going to their gigs.

[mistercwood 287]

12 hours ago, winsor said:

Anyway, this:

https://justthenews.com/accountability/watchdogs/female-prisoners-sue-california-censoring-complaints-about-anatomically?utm_source=justthenews.com&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=external-news-aggregators

is one outcome of the 'not sure if he's a boy or a girl' movement.

Woke is a humorless version of Theater of the Absurd.

So the outcome is people suing over imagined potential future incidents, not actual cases of assault? As per usual, the logic is predicated on the assumption that all trans-women are secretly just perverts looking for secret ways to assault cis-women. Quelle surprise.

[gowlerk 1,903]

1 hour ago, mistercwood said:

So the outcome is people suing over imagined potential future incidents, not actual cases of assault? As per usual, the logic is predicated on the assumption that all trans-women are secretly just perverts looking for secret ways to assault cis-women. Quelle surprise.

I'm going to agree that this one is perhaps a bridge too far. The potential for abuse here is obvious. This is not like sharing bathrooms. This is putting women in serious danger. I don't know how to draw the line on this, but there clearly needs to be a line. The logic is not that all trans woman are fakes. The logic is that there will be some men in prisons who see an opportunity and will take it.

Edited November 23, 2021 by gowlerk

[mistercwood 287]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I'm going to agree that this one is perhaps a road too far. The potential for abuse here is obvious. This is not like sharing bathrooms. This is putting women in serious danger. I don't know how to draw the line on this, but there clearly needs to be a line.

I agree that care is essential in reaching final decisions. But I vehemently disagree with reinforcing the narrative that all trans-women are just regular dudes trying to find new ways to enter women's spaces and assault them. And that's all the provided article was trying to do.

[gowlerk 1,903]

2 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

But I vehemently disagree with reinforcing the narrative that all trans-women are just regular dudes trying to find new ways to enter women's spaces and assault them.

I agree with you there.

Girls will be boys and boys will be girls, it's a mixed up jumbled up shook up world......

Edited November 23, 2021 by gowlerk

[billvon 2,391]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Girls will be boys and boys will be girls, it's a mixed up jumbled up shook up world......

Except for Lola.  

One thing I find funny is that changing gender identity is seen as a new, hazardous, confusing and ultimately dangerous fad by a lot of conservative people.  To which I think - have you not been paying any attention?  That song was from 1970.  Some others:

"Got your mother in a whirl, she's not sure if you're a boy or a girl" - David Bowie 1974
"shaved her legs and then he was a she" - Lou Reed 1972
"who's got the new boy's gender" - Boy George 1982
"Here come Dick, he’s wearing a skirt" - Replacements 1984
"A girl called Johnny" - Waterboys 1983
"You make a really good girl /As girls go/Still kind of look like a guy" - Suzanne Vega 1992

[metalslug 31]

3 hours ago, billvon said:

Except for Lola.  

One thing I find funny is that changing gender identity is seen as a new, hazardous, confusing and ultimately dangerous fad by a lot of conservative people.  To which I think - have you not been paying any attention?  That song was from 1970.  Some others:

"Got your mother in a whirl, she's not sure if you're a boy or a girl" - David Bowie 1974
"shaved her legs and then he was a she" - Lou Reed 1972
"who's got the new boy's gender" - Boy George 1982
"Here come Dick, he’s wearing a skirt" - Replacements 1984
"A girl called Johnny" - Waterboys 1983
"You make a really good girl /As girls go/Still kind of look like a guy" - Suzanne Vega 1992

There's a truckload of songs that have 'non-mainstream' lyrics in them and I expect most people did not (and do not) concern themselves much if they are more interested in melody than lyrics. Many fans of Puccini don't know a word of Italian. It's also possible that such lyrics were interpreted by conservative ears as a deriding context. The degree of gender identity enthusiasm that we see now is relatively new.

Edited November 23, 2021 by metalslug

[winsor 186]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

Except for Lola.  

One thing I find funny is that changing gender identity is seen as a new, hazardous, confusing and ultimately dangerous fad by a lot of conservative people.  To which I think - have you not been paying any attention?  That song was from 1970.  Some others:

"Got your mother in a whirl, she's not sure if you're a boy or a girl" - David Bowie 1974
"shaved her legs and then he was a she" - Lou Reed 1972
"who's got the new boy's gender" - Boy George 1982
"Here come Dick, he’s wearing a skirt" - Replacements 1984
"A girl called Johnny" - Waterboys 1983
"You make a really good girl /As girls go/Still kind of look like a guy" - Suzanne Vega 1992

"A Boy Named Sue" - Johnny Cash 1969

I grew up in an artistic milieu, and it was no big deal what was one's sexuality or gender preference.  Being a breeder in Provincetown or New Hope was no more of a problem than being straight in Keokuk.

My objection to J. Edgar Hoover is not because he enjoyed the company of men, liked to dress up in pretty outfits and voiced disappointment that cunnilingus was not a Federal crime (for real), it's because he was an evil sonofabitch by any measure.

My objection to the Woke ism is that it is at least as intolerant as anyone against whom they rail.  "Oh, you think YOU'RE fucked up?  Watch this!"

Say or do anything to piss them off and they will burn down anything or trash anything in a fit of moral indignation.  I've seen it up close and personal, and I'm not impressed.

By the same token that I don't need to exhaustively review the works of Jerry Falwell to get the gist of his stance, the works of Ibrahim X. Kendi are similarly transparent and unworthy of serious perusal.

That anyone would take either sort of nonsense seriously is disquieting, and I find True Believers to be dangerous in general.

Every generation of students is sure they have discovered Eternal Truths that have been missed so far, and they will be stunned when the next generation does the very same thing.

Unfortunately, True Believers are humorless assholes across the board.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

 

[wmw999 2,119]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

Say or do anything to piss them off and they will burn down anything or trash anything in a fit of moral indignation.  I've seen it up close and personal, and I'm not impressed.

that's a personal manifestation of wokeism; just as some people feel free to rail on liberals and call it normal conservatism, some people feel free to rail on conservatives and call it wokeism.

If you don't want to be lumped with the wack jobs who attacked the Capitol, then don't lump people who consider themselves to be woke with intolerant assholes.

Just don't also conflate tolerance with acceptance of speech that demeans. Demeaning speech should be based on, and reserved for, personal characteristics and person-to-person contact (i.e. where  you can suffer the consequences). Using the power of status to be able to speak disparagingly about someone else when they can't fight back is chickenshit, unless, of course, you're actually in a position of power (e.g. organizer at a bigway event, or boss at work), and then you have some responsibilities to go along with that ability.

Wendy P.

[winsor 186]

39 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

that's a personal manifestation of wokeism; just as some people feel free to rail on liberals and call it normal conservatism, some people feel free to rail on conservatives and call it wokeism.

If you don't want to be lumped with the wack jobs who attacked the Capitol, then don't lump people who consider themselves to be woke with intolerant assholes.

Just don't also conflate tolerance with acceptance of speech that demeans. Demeaning speech should be based on, and reserved for, personal characteristics and person-to-person contact (i.e. where  you can suffer the consequences). Using the power of status to be able to speak disparagingly about someone else when they can't fight back is chickenshit, unless, of course, you're actually in a position of power (e.g. organizer at a bigway event, or boss at work), and then you have some responsibilities to go along with that ability.

Wendy P.

I'm trying to follow you, but it takes some doing.

Noting the stupidity of 'liberals' doesn't make one a 'conservative' any more than noting the stupidity of 'conservatives' makes one a 'liberal.'  Both sides of the aisle suck out loud, the only difference being the issues on which they choose to be utter morons.

I am trying to think of anyone who deems themselves Woke that doesn't see fit to berate those who don't fall in with their positions, the sort of righteous indignation which is characteristic of intolerant assholes.  I am certain that I am seen as such by some, but I simply reserve the right to think for myself and politely request the people who seek to begrudge me of that option should - from a purely therapeutic standpoint, mind you - go fuck themselves.

The mob that went into the Capitol isn't any better.  Even if the irregularities in the election (which are typical) had been sufficient to tip the balance one way or another, swarming the Capitol is hardly the most effective way to garner public support.

Tolerance is, by its very nature, the process of becoming inured to something toxic or detrimental.

In any event, I don't get what is your point about demeaning speech and the power of status.  WTF?

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[gowlerk 1,903]

6 hours ago, metalslug said:

The degree of gender identity enthusiasm that we see now is relatively new.

What is new is the demand for acceptance and the willingness of much of society to give it. I'm pretty sure that more people are not feeling gender fluid than before. What is happening is that they are no longer quite as afraid to be more public about it. But there is now a lot of push back from those who are not willing to accommodate them for whatever reason. Yes, it does seem like a big change and it is happening in a relatively short time. And it does offend conservative sensibilities, but it actually harms no one so in the end you will learn to just get used to it. 

[wmw999 2,119]

30 minutes ago, winsor said:

I am trying to think of anyone who deems themselves Woke that doesn't see fit to berate those who don't fall in with their positions, the sort of righteous indignation which is characteristic of intolerant assholes.  I am certain that I am seen as such by some, but I simply reserve the right to think for myself and politely request the people who seek to begrudge me of that option should - from a purely therapeutic standpoint, mind you - go fuck themselves.

Well, I'm certainly working on being woke. How much berating do I do? Or is any disagreement berating? I'm sure there are others here on dz.com who are working on it as well. Since as a social entity it's a moving target, anyone who says they have achieved it probably don't understand it's a process, not an end. At least in my opinion.

And if you are free to tell people your opinion of them (or at least to express it in other places), why is it so offensive that someone should feel free to tell you their opinion of you?

Wendy P.

[metalslug 31]

17 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

.. but it actually harms no one so in the end you will learn to just get used to it. 

That last line is subjective opinion. I'm sure you're aware of incidents in which someone was harmed. Not many incidents, I concede, but a higher tolerance over time logically suggests a future of higher incidents, until a question is reached of how many incidents would people be willing to 'get used to' ?   Consider that the gun lobby use the same argument; "don't punish everyone for the sake of a few transgressors."

[winsor 186]

7 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Well, I'm certainly working on being woke. How much berating do I do? Or is any disagreement berating? I'm sure there are others here on dz.com who are working on it as well. Since as a social entity it's a moving target, anyone who says they have achieved it probably don't understand it's a process, not an end. At least in my opinion.

And if you are free to tell people your opinion of them (or at least to express it in other places), why is it so offensive that someone should feel free to tell you their opinion of you?

Wendy P.

"It's not the religious fundamentalists that are the problem, it's the fundamentals of religion". - Christopher Hitchens

Woke is a religion, every bit as bad as any other.

[gowlerk 1,903]

3 minutes ago, metalslug said:

I'm sure you're aware of incidents in which someone was harmed.

???  All kinds of different people harm others or come to harm for all kinds of reasons. Acceptance is a completely different issue. 

[gowlerk 1,903]

5 minutes ago, winsor said:

"It's not the religious fundamentalists that are the problem, it's the fundamentals of religion". - Christopher Hitchens

Woke is a religion, every bit as bad as any other.

What utter nonsense. There is no "woke religion" despite your need for something to be offended by. And Hitchens was a pompous asshole.

[winsor 186]

41 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

What utter nonsense. There is no "woke religion" despite your need for something to be offended by. And Hitchens was a pompous asshole.

Wrong

 

Asshole though Hitchens may have been, he was typically right.

 

BSBD,

Winsor