Woke is a Joke

[brenthutch 383]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

Lol, you’re too sensitive to cope with seeing fictional gay people in public but you think I should lighten up? 

By the way, your evidence that it can’t compete in the marketplace of ideas is one angry note from one angry subway customer. It’s not very compelling. On the other hand your homophobic Christian video is very good evidence that it can.

BTW it was more than one customer and that is one of the reasons she was dropped 

[jakee 1,254]

54 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

BTW it was more than one customer and that is one of the reasons she was dropped 

And what does that have to do with work in general and the market place of ideas?

Remember that the video you said showed woke couldn’t compete in the market place of ideas came from a group of Christian homophobes who are angry that SO MANY independent for profit companies are now making their cartoon characters gay. How exactly did that make sense to you? Saying one thing and proving another seems to be a habit you just can’t break.

[winsor 186]

10 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Thanks Winsor, pretty much sums up your belief system as exactly what Mr. S Dekker said.

"Belief system?"

I'm an Atheist - I have none.

[gowlerk 1,911]

27 minutes ago, winsor said:

"Belief system?"

I'm an Atheist - I have none.

I am also an atheist. But I definitely have beliefs. A belief system is not the same thing as a religion. Atheism is also a belief system.

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

And what does that have to do with work in general and the market place of ideas?

Remember that the video you said showed woke couldn’t compete in the market place of ideas came from a group of Christian homophobes who are angry that SO MANY independent for profit companies are now making their cartoon characters gay. How exactly did that make sense to you? Saying one thing and proving another seems to be a habit you just can’t break.

Setting up then knocking down straw men is a habit you can’t seem to break.  

[winsor 186]

14 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I am also an atheist. But I definitely have beliefs. A belief system is not the same thing as a religion. Atheism is also a belief system.

It's a disbelief system.

H. L. Mencken responded to letters agreeing with him wholeheartedly or disputing him line and verse with the same observation - "you might be right."

I am not so generous.  When people keep doing the same thing while expecting different results, I have no qualms pointing out that they meet the definition of insanity.

If someone proposes something that can be tested affordably, I say check it out - even if it appears implausible.  Cold fusion comes to mind.

The drivel spewed by Social Justice Warriors does not withstand scrutiny.  The vast majority of the 'solutions' proposed have been tried and met failure at every turn, and the 'problems' postulated involve more hand-waving and redefinition than I'm willing to abide.

As far as religions go, I'm with Hitchens in that what is put forth without evidence can be rejected without evidence.

The Hebrew Scriptures are akin to the Greek Myths in that SOME of what is covered has a superficial historical basis, but the intervention of Zeus, Athena or the lonely God of Israel can be attributed to literary style.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

8 hours ago, jakee said:

By the way, your evidence that it can’t compete in the marketplace of ideas is one angry note from one angry subway customer. It’s not very compelling. On the other hand your homophobic Christian video is very good evidence that it can.

There were lots and lots of angry bigots. 
Lots of complaints.

Of course, the fact that she knelt during the Star Spangled Banner just pissed them off even more.

However, she hasn't been fired yet.

[billvon 2,396]

16 hours ago, jakee said:

You realise that fictional characters (being fictional and all) have no agency and the very concept of forcing them to do anything makes no sense?

This stink reminds me of the horror and outrage generated by the Kirk-Uhura interracial kiss.  Then, as now, most people didn't have a problem with it.  But to some people (primarily in the South) it had "crossed the line."  "I am totally opposed to the mixing of the races!" said one letter sent to NBC.

It is also notable that, in part due to the reaction she got to her role on Star Trek, Nichelle Nichols went on to be something of a crusader for both women's and black rights - and partly due to the controversy generated by that kiss, saw some success at it.

So while it's sad that people still have such reactions to interracial kisses, gay cartoon characters, nonbinary characters etc it also tends to lead to advocacy that makes such changes happen more rapidly.  In a way, they (the people bothered by what they see as the decline of morality and decency) are digging their own graves.

[BIGUN 1,053]

25 minutes ago, billvon said:

his stink reminds me of the horror and outrage generated by the Kirk-Uhura interracial kiss.

Bet the shit really hit the fan when he kissed Shanha the humanoid. 

[winsor 186]

21 minutes ago, billvon said:

This stink reminds me of the horror and outrage generated by the Kirk-Uhura interracial kiss.  Then, as now, most people didn't have a problem with it.  But to some people (primarily in the South) it had "crossed the line."  "I am totally opposed to the mixing of the races!" said one letter sent to NBC.

It is also notable that, in part due to the reaction she got to her role on Star Trek, Nichelle Nichols went on to be something of a crusader for both women's and black rights - and partly due to the controversy generated by that kiss, saw some success at it.

So while it's sad that people still have such reactions to interracial kisses, gay cartoon characters, nonbinary characters etc it also tends to lead to advocacy that makes such changes happen more rapidly.  In a way, they (the people bothered by what they see as the decline of morality and decency) are digging their own graves.

I recall an interview with the cartoonist behind the original Wonder Woman comics, and he acknowledged the lesbian and kinky themes therein.  I can't recall anyone getting all worked up about it.

"Drawn Together" took it to another level, but it lost my interest by virtue of its focus on toilet humor - not my bag.

I figure if something does not get the attention of censors on one side or another, it isn't trying hard enough.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[jakee 1,254]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Setting up then knocking down straw men is a habit you can’t seem to break.  

You said the point of posting the video was to show that woke isn't popular enough to survive in the marketplace of ideas. It's right there in black and white, but whatever I can't be bothered to press the point. 

Because regardless of waht you said, I'm sure you'll agree that the proliferation of gay comicbook characters highlighted in the video you posted is a clear demonstration that woke ideology is indeed flourishing in the marketplace of ideas.

[brenthutch 383]

15 minutes ago, jakee said:

You said the point of posting the video was to show that woke isn't popular enough to survive in the marketplace of ideas. It's right there in black and white, but whatever I can't be bothered to press the point. 

Because regardless of waht you said, I'm sure you'll agree that the proliferation of gay comicbook characters highlighted in the video you posted is a clear demonstration that woke ideology is indeed flourishing in the marketplace of ideas.

A twenty million dollar drop in sales from 2016 to 2019 would indicate otherwise. As would the new Dr. Who’s abysmal ratings 

https://www.standard.co.uk/culture/tvfilm/doctor-who-series-12-ratings-low-a4382666.html

Edited November 16, 2021 by brenthutch

[jakee 1,254]

3 hours ago, winsor said:

The drivel spewed by Social Justice Warriors does not withstand scrutiny.  The vast majority of the 'solutions' proposed have been tried and met failure at every turn, and the 'problems' postulated involve more hand-waving and redefinition than I'm willing to abide.

Every turn? The civil war succeeded in getting rid of widespread slavery, that was a pretty important win for SJWs.

People can march in pride parades without being stoned (with stones, not drugs) these days, so that's cool. 

Schools aren't segregated any more, which seems important.

On the other hand I'd be interested in hearing the non hand wavy problems you have with SJWs and the woke that makes you dedicate so much time to opposing them. Mostly you tend to start pretending it's the same as Stalinism just so you can find something to rant about, which seems to me to be a fairly hefty redefinition.

[jakee 1,254]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

A twenty million dollar drop in sales from 2016 to 2019 would indicate otherwise.

For what, against a context of what?

[billvon 2,396]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Bet the shit really hit the fan when he kissed Shanha the humanoid. 

Reminds me of a very funny Facebook comment I saw a while back.

Apparently the latest Star Trek series has a gay main character.  A Facebook poster said "this is disgusting!  Star Trek was always about technology and the future, not about trying to force social change down my throat.  I won't be watching any more."

And I bet if you pointed out the Kirk/Uhura stink to him, he'd say "well, that's ridiculous.  I mean, showing a black woman kissing a white man is fine; that's not shoving anything down my throat."

[billvon 2,396]

12 minutes ago, jakee said:

People can march in pride parades without being stoned (with stones, not drugs) these days, so that's cool. 

Yep.  A few years back the San Diego Pride Parade got stalled right next to some protesters.  There was a guy with a megaphone shouting at us.  The organizers had told us that we should NOT respond to protesters, but just ignore them.

"Homosexuality is a SIN!" he'd yell.  We didn't want to argue, but it seemed rude to completely ignore him, so we cheered instead.

"You're going to hell.  This isn't a joke.  It's not funny!" he yelled.  We cheered again.

He got madder and madder.  Fortunately there were some SJW's there (with badges) to make sure the he didn't try to send us to hell right then and there.

 

[brenthutch 383]

19 minutes ago, billvon said:

Yep.  A few years back the San Diego Pride Parade got stalled right next to some protesters.  There was a guy with a megaphone shouting at us.  The organizers had told us that we should NOT respond to protesters, but just ignore them.

"Homosexuality is a SIN!" he'd yell.  We didn't want to argue, but it seemed rude to completely ignore him, so we cheered instead.

"You're going to hell.  This isn't a joke.  It's not funny!" he yelled.  We cheered again.

He got madder and madder.  Fortunately there were some SJW's there (with badges) to make sure the he didn't try to send us to hell right then and there.

 

You should have Rick Rolled them

[rifleman 61]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

I recall an interview with the cartoonist behind the original Wonder Woman comics, and he acknowledged the lesbian and kinky themes therein.  I can't recall anyone getting all worked up about it.

"Drawn Together" took it to another level, but it lost my interest by virtue of its focus on toilet humor - not my bag.

I figure if something does not get the attention of censors on one side or another, it isn't trying hard enough.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

Which is strange given that disingenuous attacks on comic books such as Batman and Robin, and Wonder Woman by Frederic Wertham and Senator Carey Estes Kefauver (D, Tenessee) led to mass comic burnings in Missouri and other places.

Wertham's flawed research led him to publish "The Seduction Of The Innocent" in 1954. 

"Wertham's crowning achievement against comic books came in 1954. He published his book The Seduction of the Innocent. Seduction also featured bad research. It made hard-to-substantiate claims, suggesting Wonder Woman was a lesbian, Batman and Robin were gay, and comic books were leading children into danger. Wertham's comic book witch-hunt coincided with McCarthyism in the US, adding fuel to the fire.

Wertham's work caught the eye of Carey Estes Kefauver, a Democratic senator from Tennessee. Kefauver eventually chaired a Senate subcommittee that gave an even larger platform to Wertham's panicked arguments against comic books."

Of more interest than an interview with the cartoonist, is the Family Circle interview "Don't laugh at the Comics." between Wonder Woman's creator, William Moulton Marston and a journalist, Olive Richard. Richard was in fact Olive Byrne, polyamorous life partner to both Marston and his wife, Elizabeth. The triad was villified and driven out of their home and university posts by discovery of their lifestyle.

[winsor 186]

2 hours ago, rifleman said:

Which is strange given that disingenuous attacks on comic books such as Batman and Robin, and Wonder Woman by Frederic Wertham and Senator Carey Estes Kefauver (D, Tenessee) led to mass comic burnings in Missouri and other places.

Wertham's flawed research led him to publish "The Seduction Of The Innocent" in 1954. 

"Wertham's crowning achievement against comic books came in 1954. He published his book The Seduction of the Innocent. Seduction also featured bad research. It made hard-to-substantiate claims, suggesting Wonder Woman was a lesbian, Batman and Robin were gay, and comic books were leading children into danger. Wertham's comic book witch-hunt coincided with McCarthyism in the US, adding fuel to the fire.

Wertham's work caught the eye of Carey Estes Kefauver, a Democratic senator from Tennessee. Kefauver eventually chaired a Senate subcommittee that gave an even larger platform to Wertham's panicked arguments against comic books."

Of more interest than an interview with the cartoonist, is the Family Circle interview "Don't laugh at the Comics." between Wonder Woman's creator, William Moulton Marston and a journalist, Olive Richard. Richard was in fact Olive Byrne, polyamorous life partner to both Marston and his wife, Elizabeth. The triad was villified and driven out of their home and university posts by discovery of their lifestyle.

Thanks for elaborating on the background.

I find sanctimonious assholes trying to inflict their standards on others to be repellent, whether it's Joe McCarthy or the Woke who have taken up the torch.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[SkyDekker 1,122]

30 minutes ago, winsor said:

Thanks for elaborating on the background.

I find sanctimonious assholes trying to inflict their standards on others to be repellent, whether it's Joe McCarthy or the Woke who have taken up the torch.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

Like Israelis telling Palestinians how to co-exist with them or they just bulldoze their homes. Or Americans trying to impose their version of democracy on other countries. Or people susceptible to road rage because other drivers aren't behaving like they want them to.

Sanctimonious assholes like that?

[billvon 2,396]

10 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Like Israelis telling Palestinians how to co-exist with them or they just bulldoze their homes. Or Americans trying to impose their version of democracy on other countries.

Or people who get teachers and principals cancelled when they are teaching something they do not approve of.  (Or even when they're not teaching it.)

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/09/18/colleyville-principal-critical-race-theory/

[brenthutch 383]

11 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Like Israelis telling Palestinians how to co-exist with them or they just bulldoze their homes. Or Americans trying to impose their version of democracy on other countries. Or people susceptible to road rage because other drivers aren't behaving like they want them to.

Sanctimonious assholes like that?

No, more like European expatriates bloviating on and on about how Americans should conduct their affairs while Europe slides into irrelevance.

 

[winsor 186]

27 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Like Israelis telling Palestinians how to co-exist with them or they just bulldoze their homes. Or Americans trying to impose their version of democracy on other countries. Or people susceptible to road rage because other drivers aren't behaving like they want them to.

Sanctimonious assholes like that?

Pretty much.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

10 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

European expatriates

So your ancestors, but you are somehow different? Or are you of indigenous heritage?

[brenthutch 383]

8 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

So your ancestors, but you are somehow different? Or are you of indigenous heritage?

Actually I do have some Native American gens via the Oklahoma Hutchings apparently.

What is also apparent, is that you don’t know the the definition of expatriate.

Edited November 16, 2021 by brenthutch