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David Wang

iFLY and shoulder dislocation

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So I asked a friend who is currently working at iFLY and she said that if I had shoulder dislocations I could not do tunnel at iFLY whatsoever. ( and she also said they wouldn’t even consider it unless if it’s been like 10 years after my last dislocation) 

Is this true?? If this is true then it’s impossible for me to do tunnel again before getting back in the sky. 
 

what if I sign something else with the tunnel to take away liability issues? 
 

the waiver says “ANYONE THAT HAS CURRENT OR PRIOR HEAD, NECK, BACK OR SHOULDER INJURIES OR HEART PROBLEMS SHOULD NOT PARTICIPATE IN IFLY ACTIVITIES. 

yes, I know I shouldn’t, but can I still do it AT MY OWN RISK??

my understanding is that by signing the waiver I release of liability and promise not to sue. So signing the waiver takes away my right to sue (and I wouldn’t sue anyway) so what is iFLY worrying about? 
 

and I found this on the waiver :

If you have a current or prior shoulder injury of any kind, we recommend that you do not fly. Previous shoulder injuries increase your risk of aggravating your prior shoulder injury or re-injury. Despite these risks, if you decide to fly, you are agreeing to assume the risk of aggravating the prior injury or re-injury. Prior to entering the tunnel, you must bring this injury to the attention of the flight instructor, who will discuss your options with you. Please keep in mind that we may decline to allow you to fly. 


“Please keep in mind that we may decline to allow you to fly.” - are there any chances to fly at all?

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Talk to your doctor first if you haven't already. If they're cool with you doing some tunnel time and don't think it will cause reinjury, just go to the tunnel and don't say anything about it I guess. At least that's what I'd do.

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(edited)

i don't think i would not tell them; they can pull your arm out of the socket very easily if they didn't know it was injured and were trying to guide you.  i would take the doctor's release and they can add it to the waiver and let you fly.  also they can make sure not to pull on that arm, or maybe even stay on the other side while guiding you around.  but i am not a doctor or a tunnel instructor, so...

Edited by sfzombie13
correction

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11 hours ago, David Wang said:

Is this true?? If this is true then it’s impossible for me to do tunnel again before getting back in the sky. 

David, maybe you should step back a bit and reassess your goals. Are they skydiving goals or tunnel goals? The tunnel is a great tool for skill building, but many thousands of people have learned to skydive without it. IDK and I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other on IFLY rules for this. But as I recall, your injuries were quite extensive and started with a shoulder separation. Tunnel flight is VERY taxing on that part of the body. I'm pretty sure they have a good reason to turn away people with that kind of history. After all, they are in business to serve the market and make money.

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It would seem silly to exclude people just because of prior injury. The whole point of the tunnel is to be able to check things out in a safer environment than in the sky. Obviously there are walls to smash into, but all sorts of people are advised to get tunnel --  like people with flexibility issues, physical disability, older age, returning from an injury, etc.  Often that's about doing basic skydiving things like staying stable, basic belly maneuvers, and being able to pull, not whether they can join a 4 way freefly style team in the tunnel.

Heck, one local jumper here in Ontario got free tunnel time from worker's compensation, because his  screwed up landing that broke a lot of stuff, was on a working camera jump. He still can't lift one arm much above his shoulder but flies ok.

To the OP:  Anyway, it sounds like general purpose legal disclaimer & warning stuff. Contact your local tunnel to find out what they really think about working with someone with a prior shoulder dislocation.

 

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12 hours ago, David Wang said:

my understanding is that by signing the waiver I release of liability and promise not to sue. So signing the waiver takes away my right to sue (and I wouldn’t sue anyway) so what is iFLY worrying about? 

It is impossible to take away your right to sue.  What a waiver does it make it much more unlikely that: (a) you will win; and (b) a lawyer will take your case, because there is no real path to victory.  But iFly may be balancing on the one hand, the amount of money they would make from letting you fly against, on the other hand, the amount of money they'd spend defending against a lawsuit multiplied by the risk that you will be injured and a lawsuit will be filed.  The values they assign to that equation likely determines whether they let you fly.

I know of at least one skydiver that has shoulder dislocation issues (to the point where he wears a brace every time he skydives) that I know also has tons of tunnel time, so it's not impossible.

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15 hours ago, pchapman said:

The whole point of the tunnel is to be able to check things out in a safer environment than in the sky.

That is what skydivers that don't go to tunnels regularly think. 

Tunnels have evolved pretty much in the same direction than skydiving. To offer a carnival ride kind of experience for people that want to try it once and move on to the next thing. All of the tunnels I know have their main source of income in first timers that will never come back (or at least not regularly). Protecting themselves from bad press or liability when a first timer come with a bad shoulder is just common sense. Now, in this case, this is not a first timer, so they might act differently.

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Yes I meant "the whole point" in the context of skydivers using tunnels, as one of the reasons skydivers want to use tunnels. 

Rather than the obvious "The whole point of tunnels, which are commercial enterprises,  is to make money for their owners".

Even in skydiving I have seen waivers where one has to state that one is "fully recovered" from any injury.  Bad ankle, dodgy shoulder? Doesn't matter, you can't do the first jump course unless you claim to be perfectly healthy, as the DZ doesn't want to play the role of giving expert medical opinion. I think we agree on the liability thing.

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Is it possible that there is a safety related reason in addition to the obvious liability one? 

Having never had a shoulder pop out in the tunnel (or seen it happen) I don't know how hard it would be to remain stable or to fly to the door and exit were it to occur. Could be a big problem if the flyer is in the tunnel alone and completely loses stability when the shoulder pops.

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21 hours ago, skybytch said:

Is it possible that there is a safety related reason in addition to the obvious liability one? 

Having never had a shoulder pop out in the tunnel (or seen it happen) I don't know how hard it would be to remain stable or to fly to the door and exit were it to occur. Could be a big problem if the flyer is in the tunnel alone and completely loses stability when the shoulder pops.

i read something about it last year.  ifly had some problems with folks getting out of the tunnels and dislocating shoulders.  can't recall how long it was, may have been longer with losing last year and all.  i wish i could recall the details, but it didn't pertain to me at the time.  i was curious and did a quick look and found that most of the ifly locations don't say you can't fly with a prior shoulder dislocation, but all of them mention it.  not surprisingly i can't find any of the stuff i read about previously.

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