brenthutch 383 #1 Posted June 16, 2021 “Coal usage in the continent jumped 10% to 15% this year after a colder- and longer-than-usual winter left gas storage sites depleted, said Andy Sommer, team leader of fundamental analysis and modeling at Swiss trader Axpo Solutions AG. As economies reopen and people go back to the office, countries like Germany, the Netherlands and Poland turned to coal to keep the lights on.” https://www.thegwpf.com/europe-goes-back-to-coal-because-of-a-shortage-of-natural-gas/ Why are they going back to coal when they can just use wind and solar instead? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #2 June 16, 2021 I'm just guessing but, is it because they are more cost effective and efficient during a climate change? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,241 #3 June 16, 2021 5 hours ago, brenthutch said: Why are they going back to coal when they can just use wind and solar instead? Because there are enough coal powerplants sitting around and not enough wind and solar - yet. Time and again you appear completely baffled by the concept that if something doesn't exist now, it could exist in the future if we build it. Please let me know where it is in that thought process you get lost and I'll do my best to try and explain it to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,356 #4 June 16, 2021 2 hours ago, RonD1120 said: I'm just guessing but, is it because they are more cost effective and efficient during a climate change? Thermal power plants are less effective and less efficient as the climate warms. (Coal, gas and nuclear power plants are all thermal.) Many are having to reduce power or shut down because they can no longer cool themselves effectively. As time goes on, more and more thermal power plants will see their output limited - or be shut down altogether. "In Germany, as E.ON reduced production from its Grohnde and Brokdorf nuclear power plants, warm waters forced utility Energie Baden-Württemberg AG to shut down a hard coal plant in Karlsruhe. German utility RWE also reported that low water levels in the Rhine had obstructed fuel deliveries to a hard coal plant in Westphalia. Two RWE gas plants in Dormagen and Lingen also reduced generation." https://www.powermag.com/intense-summer-heatwaves-rattle-worlds-power-plants/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #5 June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, jakee said: Because there are enough coal powerplants sitting around and not enough wind and solar - yet. Time and again you appear completely baffled by the concept that if something doesn't exist now, it could exist in the future if we build it. Please let me know where it is in that thought process you get lost and I'll do my best to try and explain it to you. The part where it actually happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,241 #6 June 16, 2021 37 minutes ago, brenthutch said: The part where it actually happens. See, that's exactly it. You seem to need it to be proven that something has happened before you can countenance any possibility that it will happen. It is a frankly bizarre misunderstanding of the relationship between present and future. There is over 20 times more wind power in Europe now than there was in 2000 and it's being built at an increasing rate, yet the idea that there will be more of it in future seems to fill you with the same incredulity as if an elephant walked into your kitchen wearing a top hat, smoking a cigar and challenged you to a game of tennis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #7 June 17, 2021 5 hours ago, jakee said: See, that's exactly it. You seem to need it to be proven that something has happened before you can countenance any possibility that it will happen. It is a frankly bizarre misunderstanding of the relationship between present and future. There is over 20 times more wind power in Europe now than there was in 2000 and it's being built at an increasing rate, yet the idea that there will be more of it in future seems to fill you with the same incredulity as if an elephant walked into your kitchen wearing a top hat, smoking a cigar and challenged you to a game of tennis. The planet gets roughly the same percentage of its energy from fossil fuels as it did a century ago. Europe is a bit player in the global energy game, 20 times not a lot is still not a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,241 #8 June 17, 2021 6 hours ago, brenthutch said: Europe is a bit player in the global energy game, Funny, it kinda seemed like you thought what Europe is doing meant something when you started this thread yesterday. If you’re now saying that what Europe does is irrelevant and therefore your OP is pointless then I guess the thread can end here. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,329 #9 June 17, 2021 5 hours ago, jakee said: Funny, it kinda seemed like... ...your OP is pointless then I guess the thread can end here. FIFY. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,356 #10 June 17, 2021 9 hours ago, jakee said: If you’re now saying that what Europe does is irrelevant and therefore your OP is pointless then I guess the thread can end here. Eh, that just means he will have to change his mind yet again to see who else he can anger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites