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gowlerk

Immunization cards (AKA vaccine passports)

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I think they are going to be huge, I know they already are in some places. And there is tremendous political resistance to them in the USA. Even so, they will probably become a thing at some level even there and will be a new front in the culture wars. Yesterday my home province (Manitoba) just announced a program to issue digital cards immediately and physical cards that can be sent out in two weeks. We are the first in the nation.

I'm imagining that eventually you will need one to board an aircraft in Canada, or to attend a public event. And I'm pretty sure that people who cross the border into Canada without one will be required to quarantine. The US government does not want to try for a national program for its people because the fight would not be worth it. But will they be foolish enough not to require proof of vaccination for non-citizens entering the country?

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8 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I think they are going to be huge, I know they already are in some places. And there is tremendous political resistance to them in the USA. Even so, they will probably become a thing at some level even there and will be a new front in the culture wars. Yesterday my home province (Manitoba) just announced a program to issue digital cards immediately and physical cards that can be sent out in two weeks. We are the first in the nation.

I'm imagining that eventually you will need one to board an aircraft in Canada, or to attend a public event. And I'm pretty sure that people who cross the border into Canada without one will be required to quarantine. The US government does not want to try for a national program for its people because the fight would not be worth it. But will they be foolish enough not to require proof of vaccination for non-citizens entering the country?

Us, foolish? Don't presume. Even if we don't at the Federal level we have our Red State Governors.

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20 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The US government does not want to try for a national program for its people because the fight would not be worth it. But will they be foolish enough not to require proof of vaccination for non-citizens entering the country?

Canada great. US Sucks. Got it. 

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Most people don't travel internationally over the course of...even a decade. Vaccine passports will be a tougher sell than masks for some.

Border controls for most countries will want some sort of proof be it a passport or other documentation.

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5 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Canada great. US Sucks. Got it. 

We don't just suck we're also annoying. Maybe, just maybe if we weren't now condescendingly called foolish, too, it wouldn't seem so much like Ken's talking to someone too dumb to quit smoking.

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5 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Vaccine passports will be a tougher sell than masks for some.

I don't get it. Been carrying my card since the first shot. As Jerry & I discussed, we carried our shot records throughout our military career (until computers were used). On that note, just issue everyone an individual QR code of some kind to keep on their phone. Hell, give everyone a Starbucks for producing the QR code and eventually they'll think it's a fookin rewards card.   

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(edited)
22 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Canada great. US Sucks. Got it. 

Foolish is as foolish does. Lots of foolish Canadians. In MB the first dose vaccination rate is just under 70% and rising. Second doses are going out quickly now as well. But there is a substantial fairly well to do corner of mostly Mennonite and some other Christian farming based communities where the rate is less than 20%. I'm pretty sure these are people who look across the border and long for a Trump like figure. 

Seriously though, would it be un-American to have a system of immunization cards? And it is a real question about non-citizens entering the country. Will the distaste for proving vaccination be so strong that it will not be implemented at the border?

Edited by gowlerk

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13 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Maybe, just maybe if we weren't now condescendingly called foolish, too, it wouldn't seem so much like Ken's talking to someone too dumb to quit smoking.

I smoked for only 25 years. I was up to 2 packs of 25 a day when I quit. I understand how hard it is. 

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It’ll end up being like lots of other good ideas. You can buy your way out of it. Because enough money is always a better idea. 
Yes, it’s a cynical and jaded point of view. BTW, that’ll apply around much of the world, not just the US. Because money works just about everywhere. 
Wendy P. 

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7 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

It’ll end up being like lots of other good ideas. You can buy your way out of it. Because enough money is always a better idea. 

But you don't need a lot of money. You only need to get vaccinated. Only a few people are really that strongly anti-vax. Most just need a push to make it worth their while. 

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And now the Florida and Texas GOP and their Governors are going into a fight with the cruise lines over it.

https://us.cnn.com/2021/06/09/politics/desantis-abbott-republican-governors-battle-cruise-lines/index.html

Like the articles says, the GOP is now courting enemies among the powerful American corporate class. That is a battle they will lose in the end.

 

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22 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

But you don't need a lot of money. You only need to get vaccinated. Only a few people are really that strongly anti-vax. Most just need a push to make it worth their while. 

And from that perspective, that provides an excellent economic incentive to get vaccinated while simultaneously portraying yourself as smart, thrifty and not-entitled.

"I'm not gonna spend the money to get that card, I'm just going to get the shot!  It's free.  People don't get that, because they're not smart enough to figure that out.  I'm smart -  not some rich spoiled entitled asshole!"

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We don't need to have a national system, and we probably won't get one due to political bullshit and government ineptitude. The drug companies should figure something out instead, they got us this far already.

I assume that they are receiving demographics, or at the very least they are tracking the distribution of vaccine batches and vials.

I filled out a form with each shot, that information went somewhere.

Setup a system on their website where you can enter your date of vaccinations from your card, the location, and the vial/batch numbers. They validate that information, and they issue you a digital validation of some sort.

Wala! A vaccination passport without needing to deal with the fucktard politicians.

That being said I don't expect it to have any real relevance for US residents outside of international travel. The US travel and entertainment industry doesn't really care if people are vaccinated or not, their primary concern is about butts in seats, and trying to return to business as normal to the greatest extent possible.

Here we are with restrictions being lifted on both state and federal levels, so I wouldn't expect any of these large private companies to institute their own vaccination mandates, that would be in conflict with their goal of butts in seats.

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12 minutes ago, DougH said:

That being said I don't expect it to have any real relevance for US residents outside of international travel. The US travel and entertainment industry doesn't really care if people are vaccinated or not, their primary concern is about butts in seats, and trying to return to business as normal to the greatest extent possible.

Here we are with restrictions being lifted on both state and federal levels, so I wouldn't expect any of these large private companies to institute their own vaccination mandates, that would be in conflict with their goal of butts in seats.

If the pandemic more or less goes away, or just becomes very low level what you say is what will happen. The issue will just fade away. If new variants cause waves of infection among the unvaccinated, or especially if it turns out that boosters are needed it will be another thing altogether. The only time it really matters to corporations will be if the lack of a mandate causes cautious people to stay away. That is what is behind the cruise industry thinking. They worry that without a mandate they will lose business. 

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2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

If the pandemic more or less goes away, or just becomes very low level what you say is what will happen. The issue will just fade away. If new variants cause waves of infection among the unvaccinated, or especially if it turns out that boosters are needed it will be another thing altogether. The only time it really matters to corporations will be if the lack of a mandate causes cautious people to stay away. That is what is behind the cruise industry thinking. They worry that without a mandate they will lose business. 

I agree with all of what you said.

I flew recently, while fully vaccinated, for work. Mask use in the airports and on the planes was and is still mandated but actual compliance was lack luster. From what I witnessed the airport personnel and flight attendant teams aren't doing much about it other than reminding people of that mandate in their boarding announcements and safety briefing before take-off. 

Maybe it varies by airline and team, but it looks like we are at the point where many people/companies/etc. are just going through the motions to check the box on their own legal or employer requirements. 

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2 minutes ago, DougH said:

Maybe it varies by airline and team, but it looks like we are at the point where many people/companies/etc. are just going through the motions to check the box on their own legal or employer requirements. 

This is what I am observing as I do trucking around the US and Canada. It is not just a simple on-off switch. The more vaccinated people there are the lower everyone's risk. As long as the hospitals are not swamped with people who need help to breath there will be less and less enforcement. Unfortunately where I am we let down our guard at just the wrong time and are currently being completely hammered by the third wave. Even though our vaccination rates are up there. At least the rate of new cases is now finally declining, but hospitalizations are still extreme.

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I’ve recently been traveling from Texas back to Massachusetts, right after the “no masks if vaccinated” announcement. 
The farther north I went, the more consistent the masking; where I live (admittedly VERY blue) there are even significant numbers of people wearing masks on the street, and pretty much all stores. Some of it’s definitely virtue signaling, but so was some of the adamant non-masking in much of the south. 
When I flew to Houston (drove back), the compliance in Hartford and Baltimore (layover) was quite thorough (pre-lifting, though). Once I hit Houston, the airport had significant numbers not masked. Not huge, but definite, including staff. 
Wendy P. 

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3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I don't get it. Been carrying my card since the first shot. As Jerry & I discussed, we carried our shot records throughout our military career (until computers were used). On that note, just issue everyone an individual QR code of some kind to keep on their phone. Hell, give everyone a Starbucks for producing the QR code and eventually they'll think it's a fookin rewards card.   

Hi Keith,

Re:  we carried our shot records throughout our military career

And, I carry a copy of my vax record now.

Re:  until computers were used

WHAT!  Everyone should have to spend some time banging away on the old, reliable Remington Standard typewriter.  Buncha whooses.

Jerry Baumchen

 

t.jpg

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1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

WHAT!  Everyone should have to spend some time banging away on the old, reliable Remington Standard typewriter.

LoL. They went to the IBM Selectric, then word processors to use WordPerfect 5.1, then computers and everything went into the Personnel Database. 

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7 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I think they are going to be huge, I know they already are in some places. And there is tremendous political resistance to them in the USA. Even so, they will probably become a thing at some level even there and will be a new front in the culture wars. Yesterday my home province (Manitoba) just announced a program to issue digital cards immediately and physical cards that can be sent out in two weeks. We are the first in the nation.

I'm imagining that eventually you will need one to board an aircraft in Canada, or to attend a public event. And I'm pretty sure that people who cross the border into Canada without one will be required to quarantine. The US government does not want to try for a national program for its people because the fight would not be worth it. But will they be foolish enough not to require proof of vaccination for non-citizens entering the country?

I don't think I have a problem with this. When you travel to certain countries, don't some of these trips require you to be vaccinated or boosted against OTHER diseases? You know...when they say..."getting the shots?" Hasn't this kind of thing been going on for a while? Travel.gov already requires anyone applying for a visa to come to the US has to be immunized against the following:  (State Department website)

Quote

Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Influenza
Influenza type b (Hib)
Measles
Meningococcal
Mumps
Pneumococcal
Pertussis
Polio
Rotavirus
Rubella
Tetanus and diphtheria toxoids
Varicella

So I don't see the big deal here. Some other countries already have this kind of thing going for US (or anybody really) citizens coming to visit. 

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52 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

So I don't see the big deal here. Some other countries already have this kind of thing going for US (or anybody really) citizens coming to visit. 

Yes, but what I'm wondering about is if the US will require it of visitors.

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4 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, but what I'm wondering about is if the US will require it of visitors.

Makes sense to me. We already had more Americans die of Covid-19 in just over a single year, than all the citizens we lost in every war since (and including) the First World War. It's hard to even think about. Visitors wanting visas (not sure about the short term vacation-to-the-USA folks) already have to get a forest full of inoculations. Adding a Covid-19 vaccine to that list would not be much of a leap. 

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8 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

 (not sure about the short term vacation-to-the-USA folks) 

Having visited a few times, pretty sure there is no requirement. Of course I have generally come from "safe" countries.

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18 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

I don't think I have a problem with this. When you travel to certain countries, don't some of these trips require you to be vaccinated or boosted against OTHER diseases? You know...when they say..."getting the shots?" Hasn't this kind of thing been going on for a while? Travel.gov already requires anyone applying for a visa to come to the US has to be immunized against the following:  (State Department website)

So I don't see the big deal here. Some other countries already have this kind of thing going for US (or anybody really) citizens coming to visit. 

When I applied for permanent residence I had to prove I had had all the listed vaccinations.  Unfortunately my parents had misplaced by childhood vaccination records, as well as records showing I had had chicken pox and measles, so I had to get all the vaccinations done over.  I wasn't too bad though, and now I'm nicely boosted for everything.

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