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priyohere

I failed

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Had my SL FJC last Friday, i practiced till about 3 AM .. all my EP and counts. next day morning, i am only one in the class who could see the picture of the mal, tell what the name is and do the right EP.

Come jump time, i am the first one (being the heaviest) out of a 182, the door opens and i hear the command - get out and stop - i did. the second command - go all the way out...

i froze. its not the fear of height (or may be it was), but i am terrified of fall, which in retrospect is funny because thats why i am up there... but all i could think about is i cant pull myself out the door and stand on the step. i resisted, the JM asked the pilot to go around, i tried again and didnt go out.
they had to swap me around with a full load ... and i took the ride of shame down.

later in the day, i went back again, practiced EP and Exit out of a 206... same thing, i just coudnt go out, all i could think is i will fall and hit my head or something on the step. as i was coming down, my JM said we need to come up with a plan of attack , may be some training tandems... i wanted to do that anyway, couldnt get it scheduled due to weather delays... so in a nut shell i am going back again this weekend to do a couple of training tandems and then try SL again. dont have a tunnel in 600 mile radius so thats out of question.

I will do it, i know, i never quit and i am stubborn as hell.... but wondering if anyone out here have a similar experience to share and how they overcame it? anything i can do to not think about hitting my head on the step?

any feedback and suggestions are welcome, if you are about to give me the "skydiving is not for everyone speech"... well i am doing it no matter what, no matter how long it takes and no matter how many training tandems i have to do... just need some help getting over my fear.

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I started with SL, 3rd jump I froze (but i managed to cancel the jump on the ground) and I left skydiving untill next year.

Took up AFF class and the fear at one point just transformed into anticipation and healthy concentration.

MY 1st SL was absolutely terrible. I was so terrified I couldn't even think straight. It's a process every newbie must deal with, you are not alone. And my best advice is to just decide one the ground to jump out of the plane. Make the decision before you even put on your parachute that day. Just focus, don't let the fear stop you, jump over your fear. It Will hold you by the neck untill you let go of that wing and when you do, fear Will have to let go, because it does not have the guts to follow you ;)

All in all it's a mental thing, that's why skydiving is so fun. Tandems can help but in most cases jumping out alone is a total different game. I had classmates who have done tandems and when the time came to jump by themselfs they quit and never came back. NOTHING can prepare you for your first solo canopy flight.

The fear of the fall is real and it is a bit of a weird sensation at the beginning but you eventually don't even notice it anymore :D Don't worry just go!

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priyohere

I failed



No, you didn't. You just delayed your jump. Don't sweat it, being afraid is normal. I know people that from time to time still ride the plane down, after some dozens of jumps.

However, in my opinion, you have to evaluate what kind of person you are. Do you freeze in high stress situations, or are you reactive and keep being functional? What you experienced is more or less normal, sensory overload is a real thing and watching the ground from an open door scares everyone the first times. But once you get over that initial feeling you should be functional. If not, one day you might have a malfunction and react poorly to it.

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Oh gosh..... This is nothing. Great kudos to OP for reflecting upon himself though. GREAT courage for going down again!! I know I would never have dared to...

5 first (!!) SL jumps were failed. The first one ever, I fell out of plane as JM was spotting. I was almost told to quit at a time. When you get to the 7-seconds and really start feeling the air and seeing the ground, it is AWESOME and throwing the pilot chute is a sad thing :ph34r:. I was very lucky and got to finish my training with AFF. If you are up for that, I am confident it will be much better experience. Otherwise, I hated jumping from 206 as student. Being on the wing is sooo much easier.

You are already 10000 times ahead of us others. Showing great humility and courage to face your demons!!

Keep it up and let me know when you get your A and we will fly together. You can PM me any time. I work with sports psychology and coaching as well (not skydiving though, LOL).

"This too shall pass"..



Blue Sky!


There is still lots of time to learn it..

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Since you have time before your next jump: fill your head with the positive! Close your eyes and picture every part of the plane ride and the open door in as much detail as you can including every one of the senses. Then continue that picture into you climbing out, hanging, and doing a perfect exit.

Skydiving is 95% mental. Look into mental training and think long and hatd about why you stopped yourself twice now, vs why you want to jump. Then hang on to the why you want to jump part so you can use it in the plane!!! Skydiving isn't for everyone, it might not be your thing even if you want it to be your thing.

Doing a tandem is good, it can let you off the hook for all the responsibility of canopy flight for your first jump. Ask your tandem instructor to talk you through what they're doing so you can observe a controlability check, landing pattern, etc. It will look and feel different to fly student gear and a student landing pattern, but the principles are all there and the visuals are very similar.

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If you can't get out of the plane on the next attempt, call it quits. There was a guy named Mike Frymyer that went on dozens of airplane rides at dropzones all over the east coast trying to get over the fear.
This sport isn't for everbody and there is no shame in not jumping, but it sure does waste a lot of peoples time when you don't jump.
Mike was one of my students, after several balks, I had to send him packing, He went to another dz and did the same thing and then another and another. He wasted a lot of money and peoples time.
I lost track of him and don't know if he ever did jump.
Don't be like Mike.

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When I started AFF, it was all from a Caravan. And I was scared to death of the 182, I was afraid I was going to get blown off. Despite the fact that I was jumping anyway, going out without being "in control" of my leaving the aircraft scared the life out of me.

So I mentioned it to my AFF instructor, and she made me do a front float exit on the next Caravan (my dz gets a turbine about once a month or so). I have now done 4 182 jumps (I know its not many, but I'm kinda turbine spoiled) with one diving exit, and the rest climbing out onto the wing strut. What the hell had me so worried??

Just remember, a tiny hop as you let go will help you clear the step. Left foot on the step, both hands holding on, right foot dangling, then you count "up, down, hop" and let go when you hop and arch. I had coaches work with me on the ground on the exit, several times, to try and help me get over my discomfort.

Though I do not know if SL vs AFF makes a difference.

On Edit: And don't let the wind catch you by surprise. Move with purpose and focus. It will try and grab you. when you first stick your foot out, the way the wind grabbed it made my breath catch in my throat. Just plant your foot, grab the strut and move purposefully. The wind will not move you if you do not let it.

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I don't think you failed at all. 90% of the population would never even go up in the jump plane with thr idea of jumping out. Took me a long time to get over the initial jump fear. I would do a jump and say I'm done. Then I'd go back and do another. Don't over think it. Skydiving is not natural thou. It feels same good once you see comfortable with it. Try to relax the best you can. Good luck!

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Here is my advice.

My background: I learned the same exact way that you are, jumping from a C-182 and a C-206 on a static line at a different club.

I read you other post about your tandem and here is what you need to learn TRUST
You need to trust in
1. your instructors
2. your training
3. the equipment
4. the plane

Reading your other post in my honest opinion you are overthinking every tiny detail that exists. The club that you are jumping with has been around since 1967 and if they are like our club and I'm pretty sure that they are they have been using the static line method the entire time for their FJC its the oldest method of teaching skydivers and its failproof.

You are overthinking shit. Think about it why do you think they tell you to "get all the way out and hang" So you don't hit your head on the step! If you do your part right nothing bad will happen and you aren't going to hit your head on the step. You need to let go or ego and listen to what your instructors are telling you and do it.

That's just one detail......everything that they are teaching you has been gone over with a fine tooth comb and refined every year for the last 54 years in that clubs existence, it happens every year they review the entire FJC every spring and look for improvements on every aspect to your FJC and how to make it rock solid safe.

So in a nutshell here is my suggestion, sorry if I sound rash here but:

1. quit overthinking shit

2. TRUST in the aforementioned things and trust that you aren't going to get hurt or die, 10's of 1000's of skydivers have been trained using the SL method and 100's have learned at the club you are jumping at from the same exact method

3. Let your ego go because if anything that is exactly what is going to get you hurt, injured or killed. In the sky there is simply no room for egos. You gotta cut it all away man. And if you don't it just might wind up worse.... you might hurt or kill someone else.

Also I'm hoping that even thought you didn't jump that you paid for your jumps. The club you are jumping with is a non-profit club and they are simply there for the sport to train skydivers.

The next time you get out there just make sure you decide on the ground if you are or aren't going to jump or not. Do not go up in the plane until you have decided that you are or aren't going to jump. If you have even a doubt in your mind that you aren't going to jump then DO NOT get in the plane. Its not a carnival ride or a rollercoaster. If you think you aren't going to jump there is no harm in not jumping, take up bowling for a while and come back in a few years you just aren't ready yet if you can't make the decision to jump before you get in the plane. The time to be indecisive is not in the plane when you are up 3500' and there are 4 or 5 other people in the plane with you. Don't be selfish and put their lives at risk again.

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Keep in mind the option of doing AFF instead of SL. I've know people that stalled in various stages of the SL progression (always out of fear) that were able to make the switch and progress just fine. Worth a try if nothing else is working, and you seem determined.

__________________________________________

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Totally be like Mike. DZOs love to tell us when the weather turns that we're not buying jumps, we're buying plane rides. You're not wasting their time, you're paying for it. You're not wasting your own, you're finding something important about yourself, one way or another.

Good luck and keep trying until you don't feel like you're learning anything.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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dzswoop717

Mike became a laughing stock, when he would show up at the dz, eyes would start rolling and comments would start flying.

If you like people laughing at you behind your back and thinking you have a mental problem, then be like Mike.



If people are laughing at Mike for trying hard to accomplish something (and failing), then maybe they are part of the problem. What they are not for sure is part of the solution.

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dzswoop717

people laughing at you behind your back and thinking you have a mental problem



This is kind of my life already.

At the age of 41, I'm at peace with it - what should I care what those people think about how I go about my journey?
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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I agree, people are harsh. I am simply letting him know what he is in for if he continues to take airplane rides instead of skydiving.
The Mike at our dz, took at least a dozen rides, in several different aircraft, with every instructor on the staff (he was AFF)
By the end of it, his instructors knew they were just going for an airplane ride.
We sent him down the road and he went to another dz and did the same thing. It becomes a joke after a while.
Sorry to sound so cruel, but not everybody is a wonderful, people loving,understanding, humanitarian like everyone on here.
I hope the OP can overcome his fear and exit the aircraft on his next attempt, If not, there are plenty of other hobbies to take up. Good luck, YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!! PS. It's worth it.

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Joellercoaster

***people laughing at you behind your back and thinking you have a mental problem



This is kind of my life already.

At the age of 41, I'm at peace with it - what should I care what those people think about how I go about my journey?

Those who laugh here are weaklings indeed. Skydiving is about control and fun. Once you got the control, it's all fun.

One may also wonder if the DZO's let this go on, what kind of professionalism exists. Fears are something to overcome and once you do, you come stronger back.

Finally, if you are not scared at times, you are either a huge liar or a Gurkah.

There is still lots of time to learn it..

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To the OP: the best way to avoid hitting your head on the step is getting your head outboard of the step.
Not exactly sure which exit your club teaches, but most Canadian schools teach hanging exits where the student slides his right hand all the way out to the outboard end of the wing strut and steps - gently - off the step and hangs completely outboard of the step.

As for over-thinking emergency procedures ...... reviewing EPs once a week is enough ... ideally with an instructor. Then shift your thoughts to: right hand on door-frame, right foot on step, etc.

Tandems are a great way to get past door-fear. Everyone is afraid of the
door during their first few skydives. But every jump (S/L, tandems, etc.) reduces fear by 10 or 20 percent. Fear should never go away because the long-term goal is slightly reducing fear each jump. Think of fear as a logarhythmic curve: steep at the start, curving towards horizontal, but never reaching zero. A little fear keeps you alert and keeps you alive. With experience, you will learn to channel fear into gear checks, dive-planning, spotting, etc.
Moving towards the door gets easier with a tandem instructor strapped to your backside.
I disagree with an earlier poster, because I routinely tell my tandem students to grab steering toggles, then talk them through a series of turns and we practice landing flares several times. IOW a tandem student harness is the best training aid for learning the basics of canopy control.

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First of all, a BIG THANK YOU to everyone who posted on this thread and who PM-ed me. I know we are all busy, some of busy throwing them out of the plane, some are busy thinking of the damn door (me!), and I appreciate the time you guys have taken out to write to me, encourage me and sending positive thoughts to overcome my demons.

I was going to reply to all of you separately, but to keep this thread readable , I am going to make all of it in one post…

About the teaching style at my dz - you have to make 1 SL even if you wanna do AFF and there aint any Caravan or Ottor here only 182 and 206. so I am not gonna get rid of the strut or the step anytime soon.. Till I move to dive exit at least

@Maddingo - thanks for sharing your experience, in hindsight, I should have cancelled on the ground, but I was determined to jump out and right now don’t even know why I didn’t. I go over every details in my head and I can see myself climb out with jittery feet, but I just couldn't

@Deimian - I understand fear is normal, I am about to do something very few people have ever thought of doing, something that’s normal and my brain keeps telling me this is crazy shit. I don’t generally freeze in high stress situations, I stop for a min (figuratively and I understand a min in skydiving could translate into a me shaped stain on the ground :)), understand whats going on and take steps that I think is the best way to get out safely. With the EP training I have, I believe I can execute them if need be, but I wont need any EP of I am not out of the door … ha

@DrSher - Thanks for sharing your stepping stones to A license. Once I get my A, I will take you up on your offer :)

@sammielu - thanks. I am doing it every night as I fall asleep. It usually takes me 3 seconds to fall asleep in normal days, with the visualizations, its taking forever, guess I have long way to go. the tandem I will be doing is going to be training tandem where I will steer the canopy, I will ask to pull the chute as well, but will see what my TM thinks. He looks like a very strict guy, something I appreciate in my teacher, I need to be pushed. I wish we had an Otter and someone will just kick my butt out the first time

@dzswoop717 - will all respect, am not quitting. If they are laughing at my back that’s on them, not on me and honestly I don’t care. As far as I am concerned, I will keep trying, if it takes my 17 attempts so be it. I will learn from each one of them, there is always something to learn. For example, the first time I was at the door, I had no idea where the airport is, the second time around, I could at least identify it. Baby steps one may say, but we all took baby steps back in the day while learning to walk, bike, swim… and most have failed in the first attempt or first 7 attempts. If Thomas Edison found something else to do, we will probably still have candle light dinner every day :). If some people at my dz are laughing with a beer in their hand talking about me, I am absolutely ok with it. We as humans have forgot to laugh anyways. Don’t get me wrong, not criticizing you, appreciate your concerns and I understand where you are coming from, I am a teacher (more of a mentor) myself in my world of work and I mentor people every day and see them fail / succeed every day. We arent cut out to do everything, but I gotto find that out first.


@Di0 - unfortunately there isnt one in 4 hour radius

@crazydaisy315 - thanks for your suggestion and your experience. Wish we had a caravan out here, guess I have to work with what we have

@PeteW - thanks. I am overthinking this, that’s for sure.

@gunsmokex - You are SPOT ON. I tend to overthink everything and that’s exactly what I am doing and focusing a lot on "What If". When I was waiting for my tandem, I watched every video there is and obviously most were mal videos. You arent rash at all, I am same way. I NEED to quit overthinking shit. Also, I think you hit the nail in the head there… its my ego that’s asking me to listen to myself, who aint know shit about skydiving and not the trainer with more than 2k jumps. Yes, I paid for the jumps and I also got them a case of beer for my first quit :P… ever, in anything in my life.
And yes, next time I am going up for a solo exit, I will decide before I go. it was uncomfortable as hell moving a full load in a 182 and then again in a 206.. I am surprised my JM just didn’t throw me out!!

@ixlr82 - yeah I might go AFF, but I have to make one SL jump as per my dz rules. I am sure its there for a reason

@Joellercoaster - thanks, I am gonna keep trying, but I don’t want to let my instructor down.. As a next step, I will do few tandems and learn everything I can about canopy control, so that when I am out there alone, my brain knows I have done it before and its fun. Hopefully a few tandems will get me little used to the noise and air on the door as well.


@riggerrob - it’s the exact exit they teach at my DZ. And I wish they had a formal Tandem progression, but my JM is doing it for me. He is catching up with weather delays this week, so hoping I can get some tandems in next week and try SL1 right after it, if possible back to back.

Thanks again guys , it means a lot to me that we have a supporting community like this.

Priyo

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PeteW

I don't think you failed at all. 90% of the population would never even go up in the jump plane with thr idea of jumping out. Took me a long time to get over the initial jump fear. I would do a jump and say I'm done. Then I'd go back and do another. Don't over think it. Skydiving is not natural thou. It feels same good once you see comfortable with it. Try to relax the best you can. Good luck!



Pete, this is not aimed directly at you and I don't want it to be, but often someone says, "You didn't fail, you learned something didn't you." Well the reality of the world is that we do fail and very often. Failure demands change, before success to happen.

If there are no hard and fast measures, then everything would be sort of okay, just not the best in the world. Nothing must be fixed, just hope for better luck next time. (not)

Most people would feel that failure is not an acceptable level of performance. When I had to repeat a student level, I failed to progress to the next level, which was my objective. Did I fail to properly skydive, no. Did I fail to do other things, no. But I did fail the task at hand. And that, has a profound effect on my next move. (I don't like to fail)



If the OP thinks he failed, I will say, "Okay what can we do to succeed the next time?"
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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I i am with you. i failed to execute the tasks given to me. I should have trusted my instructor and my gear, hell i go on a plane without a chute and this time around i have 2 and that magical thing called AAD which will deploy it for me if i turn out to be a moron.

taking my next steps, waiting for my training tandems, and then will decide when to do my SL 1. i will also get some tunnel time.. to get that i need to hop on a plane and WITHOUT a chute !!

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priyohere


@Di0 - unfortunately there isnt one in 4 hour radius



So what. You want this? Go get it.
Usually it's a bad idea to split AFF training among different DZs, for obvious reasons, but your case might be the exception that makes it worth a shot.
You can even ask your instructors, if the step is your fear, go a DZ with an Otter, plan to stay there for a couple of days and get 4-5 AFF jumps done. That should be enough to get you over the fear of "release", and by the time you come back to your home DZ you should be confident and comfortable enough to get over that stopping fear and push yourself away from the damn step. It's pretty incredible what those 4 or 5 jumps might do to you.

My 2c.
I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

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Di0

***
@Di0 - unfortunately there isnt one in 4 hour radius



So what. You want this? Go get it.
Usually it's a bad idea to split AFF training among different DZs, for obvious reasons, but your case might be the exception that makes it worth a shot.
You can even ask your instructors, if the step is your fear, go a DZ with an Otter, plan to stay there for a couple of days and get 4-5 AFF jumps done. That should be enough to get you over the fear of "release", and by the time you come back to your home DZ you should be confident and comfortable enough to get over that stopping fear and push yourself away from the damn step. It's pretty incredible what those 4 or 5 jumps might do to you.

My 2c.

Makes sense. right now i am just focusing on the next step - my training tandems and get more familiar with getting out of a plane and understand canopy control. i am already set to get some tunnel time over winter and i cant jump anyway, for which i have to fly somewhere, may be should get thrown out of an Otter around the same time!

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I'm not the guy that's going to blow smoke up your skirt and say good job keep at it blah blah blah..skydiving is DANGEROUS and YOU can and might very possibly DIE. Its not riding a bike where you fall down and get back on. You fail skydiving and you die. It is OK to walk away or just make Tandems when you feel the need for your knees in the breeze. There are people out their with hundreds of tandems because they like to jump but don't want to or are in capable of being in charge of themselves. There is no shame in that but forcing the issues and dying is forever. Don't be THAT GUY!

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

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