Only some bones are sacred

[jakee 1,254]

5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

No mention of systemic racism. Not only did he do nothing to fix it, apparently he was unaware of its existence. In fact I don’t recall the words “systemic racism” ever crossing his lips.

That's funny. I remember some of your soundalikes here moaning time and again about Obama blaming things on racism. I'll just leave you to find some of your fellow right wingers to argue against on this one.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

If you were to tell me what is was and how I am responsible for it (even a little) I would welcome that conversation.  Mind you I am not saying racism does not exist, it does.  I just don’t see the systemic part. (Unless you are talking about how the welfare system destroyed the black nuclear family, then we are in full agreement).  

So you agree that racism exists, and you actively claim that entire branches of government have acted to the detriment of black communities specifically - but you still state that systemic racism doesn't exist? My question is, what on earth do you think systemic racism means?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

It becomes more tricky when one adds the additional layer of culture and behavior. If I disagree with the treatment of religious minorities, homosexuals and women in some parts of the Muslim world by some Muslims, does that make me islamophobic?  
 

*I understand Islam is not a race but the comparison is still valid 

Not a comparison, you can disagree with people, cultural norms, etc without being scared of them. This might just blow your mind, but there are many Muslims who disagree with the treatment of other people in Muslim countries. Yet somehow they are not afraid of themselves.

[brenthutch 383]

3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Not a comparison, you can disagree with people, cultural norms, etc without being scared of them. This might just blow your mind, but there are many Muslims who disagree with the treatment of other people in Muslim countries. Yet somehow they are not afraid of themselves.

What gives you the impression I am scared?  I think pants that are worn below the butt looks stupid, not scary.  I think a single mom trying to raise a family while an absentee father fails to support is sad not scary.  I think a culture that celebrates OGs, rappers and ballers, while ignoring PhDs is is a failing one not a scary one. The poetic brilliance of “wet ass pussy” while lost on me, does not scare me. (Notice no mention of race)  

 

[brenthutch 383]

44 minutes ago, jakee said:

So you agree that racism exists, and you actively claim that entire branches of government have acted to the detriment of black communities specifically - but you still state that systemic racism doesn't exist? My question is, what on earth do you think systemic racism means?

Where does it exist now and is it the same system that elected Obama twice?

Edited April 30, 2021 by brenthutch

[SkyDekker 1,121]

33 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

What gives you the impression I am scared?

You asked about islamophobia.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

35 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

 I think a culture that celebrates OGs, rappers and ballers, while ignoring PhDs is is a failing one not a scary one.

So America is failing? The love of show over substance is pretty universally seen as very American.

On a more serious note, it is good to see you understand how your denial of AGW is indeed a failing endeavour.

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

I think a culture that celebrates OGs, rappers and ballers, while ignoring PhDs is is a failing one not a scary one. 

The irony of a right winger moaning about different societal groups failing to respect the value of higher education is fucking brilliant.

Edited April 30, 2021 by jakee

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Where does it exist now 

In the welfare system, according to you. Unless you don't think the welfare system has any detrimental effects on black communities or families anymore?

Quote

and is it the same system that elected Obama twice?

The fact that genuinely exceptional people from any group can succeed does not mean it is not more difficult for people from those families to succeed. This is such basic logic that I'm amazed you don't understand it.

 

I'm kidding, obviously.

[brenthutch 383]

49 minutes ago, jakee said:

The fact that genuinely exceptional people from any group can succeed does not mean it is not more difficult for people from those families to succeed. This is such basic logic that I'm amazed you don't understand it.

That is true with any group irrespective of race.

[brenthutch 383]

57 minutes ago, jakee said:

The irony of a right winger moaning about different societal groups failing to respect the value of higher education is fucking brilliant.

I am a conservative leaning Libertarian, not a right winger, not a Trumper.  Right wingers aren’t pro-choice, pro criminal justice reform and for gay marriage.

[jakee 1,254]

11 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

That is true with any group irrespective of race.

Then why did you ask what you know is an irrelevant question?

[billvon 2,391]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

 I think a culture that celebrates OGs, rappers and ballers, while ignoring PhDs is is a failing one not a scary one. 

I wonder where that worship of celebrity and denigration of academics comes from?

For the latter, let's review what some of the more prolific right wing posters said here:

Lawrocket: It is also "Ivory Tower." (In other words) those who disagree might not simply have another opinion, if they knew what I knew, they'd agree. But they are ignorant.

MNealTX: Term limits would reduce the 'ivory tower syndrome' within congress and make congress more responsive to the wishes of the public in regards to spending.

Rehmwa: This whole thing is really a discussion by fake-intellectuals looking down on the simple people for "not keeping up". Ivory tower self congratulatory crap - if you ask me.

And for the former - worship of celebrity - I seem to recall republicans recently electing a reality TV show star as president of the United States, and decades ago electing a Hollywood actor who is still worshipped as a near-saint.

[kallend 1,622]

18 hours ago, ryoder said:

My money is on "they" being the Daleks.

Extermination?

[sfzombie13 307]

18 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Racism is a subset of tribalism and exists in all of us.- Ken Gowler

no, that would be prejudice, and it does exist in all of us.  racism only exists in the folks who hold the power of the system so they can oppress others, in the case of the us, old rich white folks, but the poor stupid white folks have a tendency to be led by the rich ones.  then there are the other white folks who just stand by and say nothing.  they are racists also, and there are a lot more of them than there appear to be.  it took me a while to accept this, but it makes sense when you use an open mind and think about it.

[billvon 2,391]

5 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

no, that would be prejudice, and it does exist in all of us. 

Prejudice is a bit different.  Any time you look at a person and think "he don't look right to me" (or a store, or a school or whatever) that's prejudice.  It's an inappropriate attempt to rely on intuition.  It could be based on long past (and incorrectly applied) experiences, like the guy looks like your old high school principal who you hated, even if he's the same race you are.  That's not racism because it has nothing to do with race.

ONE of the common prejudices, of course, is racial; the idea that blacks are dumb, or inherently lazy, or don't like families or whatever.

Quote

racism only exists in the folks who hold the power of the system so they can oppress others, in the case of the us, old rich white folks, but the poor stupid white folks have a tendency to be led by the rich ones. 

Nope.  Racism exists everywhere, in every guise.  It's not just "powerful people."  There's plenty of racism in white, black, Asian, Native American, Indian and Filipino communities.  As I mentioned before, homophily leads to racism if you don't actively fight it, and many people don't.

Power, however, gives racism teeth.

 

 

[BIGUN 1,051]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

As I mentioned before, homophily leads to racism if you don't actively fight it, and many people don't.

Because 94.87887374% of Americans don't even know what "homophily is?

[ryoder 1,381]

8 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Because 94.87887374% of Americans don't even know what "homophily is?

I know if you go up to some of the mountain towns here and accuse people of engaging in homophily, you'll have a fight on your hands!

[gowlerk 1,903]

8 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Because 94.87887374% of Americans don't even know what "homophily is?

And neither did I. But it would seem to be the force that keeps us all here as skydivers even though skydiving has nothing to do with our discussions.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

9 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Because 94.87887374% of Americans don't even know what "homophily is?

Dumbasses. It's a homemade cheese steak.

[sfzombie13 307]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

Nope.  Racism exists everywhere, in every guise.  It's not just "powerful people."  There's plenty of racism in white, black, Asian, Native American, Indian and Filipino communities.  As I mentioned before, homophily leads to racism if you don't actively fight it, and many people don't.

Power, however, gives racism teeth.

 

 

power is what makes it racism.  you need to research a little more on this subject, as i had to.  i had the same arguments you have now, it took a long time for that to sink in to me for some reason.  what you are describing in all of those communities is prejudice, not racism.  unless they are in their own land, such as asians in china acting in a racist manner towards white folks, or black folks in zimbabwe discriminating against asians.  you don't have to agree with the people who wrote the article i linked to in the comment, but that does not make it any less true.  without the teeth, it is the same as any other prejudice.

[billvon 2,391]

2 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

power is what makes it racism. 

Nope.  Racism is prejudice against prejudice against people based on their race (or occasionally their ethnicity.)  Power gives racism teeth.

During my time in Africa there were plenty of people there who were racist and bigoted.  People in the big cities often hated whites.  People in the smaller towns were a lot more open towards whites, but the tribal animosities ran deep.  The Hausa distrusted the Fulani but hated the Tuareg.  The Hausa and Zarma mainly got along.  The Tuaregs didn't get along with anyone and thought themselves far superior.

This usually wasn't an issue, because none of those groups had a lot of power.  Well, the Tuareg did, and they exercised it by raiding villages, stealing stuff and occasionally killing people.  

Quote

you don't have to agree with the people who wrote the article i linked to in the comment, but that does not make it any less true. 

?? FOX News has claimed that there's no racism in America.  Ted Nugent even wrote a piece about it.  Does that mean that that's true, too?

That article you posted talks about systemic racism - and that IS tied to power.  They also give the dictionary definition of prejudice, and base that part of their article on that definition.  That's fine.  But if you do that, you have to give just as much weight to the dictionary definition of racism, rather than make up your own definition.

 

[sfzombie13 307]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

Nope.  Racism is prejudice against prejudice against people based on their race (or occasionally their ethnicity.)  Power gives racism teeth.

During my time in Africa there were plenty of people there who were racist and bigoted.  People in the big cities often hated whites.  People in the smaller towns were a lot more open towards whites, but the tribal animosities ran deep.  The Hausa distrusted the Fulani but hated the Tuareg.  The Hausa and Zarma mainly got along.  The Tuaregs didn't get along with anyone and thought themselves far superior.

This usually wasn't an issue, because none of those groups had a lot of power.  Well, the Tuareg did, and they exercised it by raiding villages, stealing stuff and occasionally killing people.  

?? FOX News has claimed that there's no racism in America.  Ted Nugent even wrote a piece about it.  Does that mean that that's true, too?

That article you posted talks about systemic racism - and that IS tied to power.  They also give the dictionary definition of prejudice, and base that part of their article on that definition.  That's fine.  But if you do that, you have to give just as much weight to the dictionary definition of racism, rather than make up your own definition.

 

it's ok to be wrong.  language evolves, unless it is in the constitution for some strange reason.  everyone has prejudice, totally natural to our evolution.  race wasn't even a thing until almost 1500 or thereabouts.  until then, our tribalism was almost exclusively nation based.  i hate mincing words, but they need minced in this case.  two separate words with two separate meanings.  since i don't really care if you accept it or not, i am done with this one.

[lippy 771]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

?? FOX News has claimed that there's no racism in America.  Ted Nugent even wrote a piece about it.  Does that mean that that's true, too?

Occasionally I'll pop over to Foxnews.com to try to balance out my news consumption.  The most racist, sexist hate speech I've ever come across has been in the Fox News comments section.

[BIGUN 1,051]

1 hour ago, sfzombie13 said:

since i don't really care if you accept it or not, i am done with this one.

Shit. I just sat down with some popcorn to watch this and you turn the TV off.