New rig. Can't reach BoC

[base615 77]

Greetings fellow humans.

I recently received my new custom built Javelin (TJNK), got it all packed up, tried it on and thought "Hmm, my pilot chute handle seems difficult to reach". I spent an hour and a half that night doing practice pulls and felt it wasn't the most comfortable but I was confident it was fine.

The next morning, I went for a jump and could not get my handle at all resulting in a slammer of a terminal reserve opening, uneventful flight to the ground, a trip to the rigger for a second reserve repack in 24 hours and a trip to the bottlo for 2 cases of beer (first jump on a new rig and a chop).

My rigger said that my reserve (a tight fit) was potentially causing the rig to sit up on my back so I've swapped it out for a smaller reserve but the handle is still very difficult to get to when lying on the ground so I'm worried to go up for another jump with potentially the same result which would be pretty embarrassing. I don't have the best flexibility in my shoulder but I've never had an issue with any other rig, including ones for the same sized mains and it's just not a mal I've ever considered to be a possible outcome and I think I'm going to have to swap my Cypres back over to my old Vector until I can figure out what's wrong with the new one and rectify it.

It's been a long time since I last bought a custom rig (also a Jav TJN) so I can't fully remember how it fit me back then but I thought I had a bit of play in the shoulders and, when I'm wearing the new rig with leg straps done up properly, the yoke is pretty solidly pulling against my shoulders. Could this indicate the main lift web being a bit short and could that make it difficult to reach the pud? Any other things I should look at that could be the problem?

Cheers

[skydiverek 54]

 

Quick cheap fix is to re-sew the BOC pouch for the left hand deployment. Any rigger can do it. That assumes, that your left hand is better then your right hand.

Another option is to re-sew the BOC pouch to ROL (Rear Of Leg). ROL is not compatibile with Freeflying or Wingsuiting, but was popular in the 80s.

Also, see the physical therapist for exercises to increase your hand mobility.

 

[base615 77]

26 minutes ago, skydiverek said:

 

Quick cheap fix is to re-sew the BOC pouch for the left hand deployment. Any rigger can do it. That assumes, that your left hand is better then your right hand.

Another option is to re-sew the BOC pouch to ROL (Rear Of Leg). ROL is not compatibile with Freeflying or Wingsuiting, but was popular in the 80s.

Also, see the physical therapist for exercises to increase your hand mobility.

 

When I say my flexibility isn't great, I don't mean it's horrendous. I'm not disabled and I can easily reach the middle of my back and can reach round and check under my main flap to check my pin before jumping for example but there's something about this particular rig that is restricting my mobility to the BoC more than usual. It's super weird.

Left handed BoC may be an option although it's much more complex than just resowing the pouch as the bridle protection runs down the bottom flap on a Jav so that would need to be changed to the other side somehow. I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference though as my left arm only reaches slightly higher. As a freeflyer, it's certainly not an option going on the leg. If I can't work out why this rig is causing an issue I'll just ditch the rig and get another one. Out of dozens of rigs I've jumped over the last 25 years, this is the only one that's causing an issue.

[Deimian 43]

I had that a few years ago. I could use my old rig just fine, but my new rig had the BOC too high. My shoulder was messed up back then though. After PT and patience it is not a problem any more.

 

Small javelins are notoriously short, but unless you are abnormally tall, I would suggest to check your shoulder and flexibility.

[base615 77]

3 minutes ago, Deimian said:

I had that a few years ago. I could use my old rig just fine, but my new rig had the BOC too high. My shoulder was messed up back then though. After PT and patience it is not a problem any more.

 

Small javelins are notoriously short, but unless you are abnormally tall, I would suggest to check your shoulder and flexibility.

Negative, abnormally short :) I'm 5'4" although I have a relatively long torso for that height.

It is a short container but it's almost like I can reach high enough but can't reach in far enough when wearing the rig like something is restricting the movement.

I tried on several TJNKs before ordering, all with C-17 harness sizes which felt perfect but the one I've got has C-16 harness and just feels super tight vertically which is why I'm thinking MLW is the issue.

Edited April 12, 2021 by base615

[wmw999 2,116]

Have you had someone watch you while trying to reach your handle, preferably on an AFF table or something like that which simulates freefall position? If so, where is your hand, vs. where is the handle? You might also have someone take a picture of the rig as it sits on your back, and then of it as you reach for it, to see if it's shifting with your shoulders as you twist or stretch to pull. Those might give a hint as to what's not giving that should, or shifting in a way that's weird. You can even do the same thing with a different rig, to compare well.

It might be a mis-fit; I had a rig measured by the manufacturer which had to have the yoke rebuilt; it absolutely was too wide in the shoulders (they're fairly close to me and we have a backup rig, so it wasn't a ridiculous hassle, just an inconvenience, and it fits great now). But it took my going there and demonstrating for it to be clear, because the specs seemed right. You might just have a one-off issue.

Wendy P.

 

[base615 77]

10 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Have you had someone watch you while trying to reach your handle, preferably on an AFF table or something like that which simulates freefall position? If so, where is your hand, vs. where is the handle? You might also have someone take a picture of the rig as it sits on your back, and then of it as you reach for it, to see if it's shifting with your shoulders as you twist or stretch to pull. Those might give a hint as to what's not giving that should, or shifting in a way that's weird. You can even do the same thing with a different rig, to compare well.

It might be a mis-fit; I had a rig measured by the manufacturer which had to have the yoke rebuilt; it absolutely was too wide in the shoulders (they're fairly close to me and we have a backup rig, so it wasn't a ridiculous hassle, just an inconvenience, and it fits great now). But it took my going there and demonstrating for it to be clear, because the specs seemed right. You might just have a one-off issue.

Wendy P.

 

Good call Wendy, I'll give it a shot. Sadly not that easy to ship back to North Carolina from Sydney but if it has to happen, it has to happen.

[wmw999 2,116]

Yeah, proximity made a big difference. But do the pictures thing first -- if nothing else, it might show something to the manufacturer if it does have to go back.

Wendy P.

[base615 77]

2 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Yeah, proximity made a big difference. But do the pictures thing first -- if nothing else, it might show something to the manufacturer if it does have to go back.

Wendy P.

For sure. I meant I'll get on the AFF table for photos. Hopefully I don't need to send it back.

[pchapman 261]

A tight yoke & shoulder area on the rig could make it harder to move your shoulder blade area back, which in turn restricts how easily one can reach in behind one's back.

But that's just guessing so getting a buddy to watch & record pulls on the ground is clearly the way to go.

Edited April 12, 2021 by pchapman

[base615 77]

Had a chat with the guys over at Sun Path and sounds like we could be able to get it sorted. I'll get some pictures over to them towards the end of the week but, chatting through where the hip rings should be sitting, at the very least the rings are definitely a bit high. In past experience they've always had great customer service so I'm sure we'll get it sorted.

[dudeman17 267]

Why was talking with the manufacturer not the first thing you did?

[pchapman 261]

24 minutes ago, dudeman17 said:

Why was talking with the manufacturer not the first thing you did?

To educate oneself more and try to understand the source of the issues better, to be a better informed consumer, before discussing it with the manufacturer?

To piss off those who cry "Won't somebody think of the children?", I mean "Why didn't you contact the manufacturer first?" ?

[base615 77]

2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

Why was talking with the manufacturer not the first thing you did?

Duplicate post. Couldn't see it and wrote another thinking it had not posted properly.

Edited April 12, 2021 by base615

[riggerrob 558]

Sounds like your rig has too small a yoke. Javelins are made in 4 or 5 different yoke sizes: tiny, A, B, C, D, etc. If it needs a new yoke, it is easier to build an entirely new rig.

Another problem might be that your lateral straps are too short.

Sun Path will be able to see the problem as soon as they receive those photographs.

Finally, when you send your rig back to Sun Path, write on the customs paperwork "warranty repairs."

[base615 77]

2 hours ago, dudeman17 said:

Why was talking with the manufacturer not the first thing you did?

I did dude. Called them 11pm on Friday night (9am NC time) but they are closed on Fridays. Called them 11pm yesterday which was the first time they were back in the office. In the meantime, I thought I'd ask for some advice from other people who may have some.

[base615 77]

30 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Sounds like your rig has too small a yoke. Javelins are made in 4 or 5 different yoke sizes: tiny, A, B, C, D, etc. If it needs a new yoke, it is easier to build an entirely new rig.

Another problem might be that your lateral straps are too short.

Sun Path will be able to see the problem as soon as they receive those photographs.

Finally, when you send your rig back to Sun Path, write on the customs paperwork "warranty repairs."

Cheers Rob. Let's hope it's not the yoke. It's C yoke and I'm not a big guy.

[dudeman17 267]

21 hours ago, base615 said:

I did dude. Called them 11pm on Friday night (9am NC time) but they are closed on Fridays. Called them 11pm yesterday which was the first time they were back in the office. In the meantime, I thought I'd ask for some advice from other people who may have some.

 

23 hours ago, pchapman said:

To educate oneself more and try to understand the source of the issues better, to be a better informed consumer, before discussing it with the manufacturer?

Reasonable enough.

 

23 hours ago, pchapman said:

To piss off those who cry "Won't somebody think of the children?", I mean "Why didn't you contact the manufacturer first?" ?

That's funny.

[mccordia 73]

Noting you're also a basejumper, do you think the length of (often longer shaped) BASE containers, and being used to those from frequent jumping, might have something to do with the trouble reaching?

I know I always need a few jumps to get used to my (long) skydiving container, as its still noticeably shorter than the thin/long container I use for basejumping. Always making the first few jumps after not jumping for a while, feel like it's quite a reach...

Not implying that's the issue, but merely asking, as (though I never had a problematic pull) it for sure is a thing I always need to be aware of with the switch. Similar to going from a 285 sq/ft to a 150 sq/ft canopy, on subsequent days where I go from BASE to skydive.

[base615 77]

1 hour ago, mccordia said:

Noting you're also a basejumper, do you think the length of (often longer shaped) BASE containers, and being used to those from frequent jumping, might have something to do with the trouble reaching?

I know I always need a few jumps to get used to my (long) skydiving container, as its still noticeably shorter than the thin/long container I use for basejumping. Always making the first few jumps after not jumping for a while, feel like it's quite a reach...

Not implying that's the issue, but merely asking, as (though I never had a problematic pull) it for sure is a thing I always need to be aware of with the switch. Similar to going from a 285 sq/ft to a 150 sq/ft canopy, on subsequent days where I go from BASE to skydive.

Nah, haven’t jumped a BASE rig in 17 years but I jump a vector built for the same size canopies and I’ve jumped the same size Javs with no issue.

After speaking with Sun Path about where the hip rings should sit, the MLW is at least an inch and a half short so either I’ve provided bad measurements or someone’s fat fingered then into the system. Probably the former but we’ll see.

[jerolim 7]

Sounds to me like your laterals could be too long for you. This would cause your rig to be lifted from your back. Can you put something in between your back and rig when dressed up for jump ? If so - that's your problem.

[base615 77]

37 minutes ago, jerolim said:

Sounds to me like your laterals could be too long for you. This would cause your rig to be lifted from your back. Can you put something in between your back and rig when dressed up for jump ? If so - that's your problem.

Nah, tight to my back.
 

If I have it on with no leg straps, I have no problem with the handle while on my belly. As soon as the leg straps go on, they pull my MLW down and my rig goes up my back. Pretty sure an extra inch and a half on the MLW will fix it.

[jerolim 7]

9 minutes ago, base615 said:

Nah, tight to my back.
 

If I have it on with no leg straps, I have no problem with the handle while on my belly. As soon as the leg straps go on, they pull my MLW down and my rig goes up my back. Pretty sure an extra inch and a half on the MLW will fix it.

Then, it is resolved, and it needs to be resized in MLW section. I guess it needs to go back to Sunpath or in hands of allowed master rigger,...

[riggerrob 558]

If it is new-manufacture, send it back to Sun Path for a "warranty repair."

Your local Master Rigger might be able to build you new main lift webs, but they will not be as precise as factory MLWs.

[base615 77]

By the sounds of things, Sun Path can send me out some MLW and my guy here can fit them rather than having to ship the whole rig back.