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billvon

Welcome to the fourth wave

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16 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

What are you're thoughts on this one?

Nearly 40% of Marines have declined Covid-19 vaccine

Nearly 40% of US Marines are declining Covid-19 vaccinations, according to data provided to CNN on Friday by the service, the first branch to disclose service-wide numbers on acceptance and declination.

As of Thursday, approximately 75,500 Marines have received vaccines, including fully vaccinated and partially vaccinated service men and women. About 48,000 Marines have chosen not to receive vaccines, for a declination rate of 38.9%.

Doesent matter. Vaccines in the military are mandatory and as soon as that EUA ends and the vaccines get full FDA acceptance, you can bet your ass the DoD will make them mandatory on day one.

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9 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

it is very true so far.  nobody in the world who has had a vaccine has died after getting covid.  if you find one that does after hundreds of millions of vaccinations, i will call that close enough to zero to be zero.

There is a nurse in my unit who had both Covid vaccinations and got Covid several weeks later. She was sick out of work for four days. She was not hospitalized, but for sure she was not asymptomatic. She said she felt like shit. The vaccine is not an absolute guarantee.

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4 hours ago, Westerly said:

There is a nurse in my unit who had both Covid vaccinations and got Covid several weeks later. She was sick out of work for four days. She was not hospitalized, but for sure she was not asymptomatic. She said she felt like shit. The vaccine is not an absolute guarantee.

but did she die?   nope, and neither has anyone else who got a vaccine.  worldwide.  after hundreds of millions of them.  so, effectively zero.  it is an absolute guarantee of living, the best guarantee one can have.

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in the army they are also refusing, they just haven't released the rates yet.  last i heard it was around 30%.  i can't see the eua keeping it from being mandatory, unless they really have given them rights we didn't have when i was in.  in the desert, they had a vaccine we were made to get, some tried to refuse it, but we were told we had no choice.  i found out a few years ago it was an experimental vaccine, no fda eua even, and they had gotten permission to use us a test subjects.  thing is, they were also required to get our permission first, written and signed for the test.  not once did anyone tell us what it was, let alone ask for permission or to sign anything.  maybe they take better care of our troops now, but i highly doubt it.  i think it was all politicized way too much and that is the reason they let them choose.

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38 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

i think it was all politicized way too much and that is the reason they let them choose.

 

4 hours ago, Westerly said:

Vaccines in the military are mandatory and as soon as that EUA ends and the vaccines get full FDA acceptance, you can bet your ass the DoD will make them mandatory on day one.

I believe both of these are correct.

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17 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Some people aren't just in it for themselves. The protection isn't just for us, it's for others, too. Some people even volunteer time and/or money to benefit people who they don't even know, and who are unlikely ever to give them anything.

Wendy P.

Yes, YOU!:thumbup:

In other news, Sinovac: Brazil results show Chinese vaccine 50.4% effective

The country’s official coronavirus death toll is 102,649. But at least 300,000 more people died last year during the pandemic than were reported in Russia’s most widely cited official statistics.

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16 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

it is very true so far.  nobody in the world who has had a vaccine has died after getting covid.  if you find one that does after hundreds of millions of vaccinations, i will call that close enough to zero to be zero.

No.

This is not true. 

There have been a few.

As I noted above, Michigan has seen 246 infections and 3 deaths in people who were fully vaccinated and through the waiting period.

 

There have been 1.8 million people vaccinated.
So the deaths are VERY low.

But not zero. Not 'nobody.'

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-health-watch/246-infected-3-dead-covid-19-michigan-despite-being-vaccinated

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15 hours ago, billvon said:

Back on March 13th, one of the posters here bragged about how brave he was to go to Florida with his family.  He was "happy to report bars and restaurants were open and packed."   He also talked about a clever trick he discovered - he used mask inserts that held the mask away from his face, so it would be more comfortable and not filter anything.  But since he technically still had a mask on, he could pretend he was "complying with the mandate."

Today's case numbers from Florida.  You can see the low point right around March 13th.  Looks like a lot of people around that time had the same idea as our poster here.  Congratulations?  I guess?  His trick worked.

Florida_Cases.PNG

Michigan has mask mandates and many more onerous restrictions, how is that working out?

image.jpeg.3e2e28c5eb56819b35b45fb1bb7910b4.jpeg

 

 

image.png

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this one says the three may be thrown out if the evidence says they were infected prior to getting vaccinated, or at least some could be.  also, both articles say that it may have just taken them longer to develop the full immunity since they were all over 65.  and the number is over 700 million vaccinated, and i did read that there have been some deaths from the vaccine itself, small numbers, but they are there.  and it all averages out to under 0.00% so i round it to zero.  hell, sleeping is more deadly than that, and i jump out of planes?  of course this is zero.

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8 hours ago, Westerly said:

Well the pandemic is over, so...

The US infection rate is climbing again overall.  In states like Michigan and Florida, it is climbing exponentially.  25% of Americans say they will refuse the vaccine; 5% are unsure.

So no, the pandemic isn't over.

 

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9 hours ago, billvon said:

The US infection rate is climbing again overall.  In states like Michigan and Florida, it is climbing exponentially.  25% of Americans say they will refuse the vaccine; 5% are unsure.

So no, the pandemic isn't over.

 

18 March 2021 “We’re moving away from the idea that we’ll hit the herd-immunity threshold and then the pandemic will go away for good,”...He said that reaching a herd-immunity threshold was looking unlikely because of factors such as vaccine hesitancy, the emergence of new variants and the delayed arrival of vaccinations for children.

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(edited)
41 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

18 March 2021 “We’re moving away from the idea that we’ll hit the herd-immunity threshold and then the pandemic will go away for good,”...He said that reaching a herd-immunity threshold was looking unlikely because of factors such as vaccine hesitancy, the emergence of new variants and the delayed arrival of vaccinations for children.

Herd immunity was always a pipe dream. The problem is the virus is a lot better at doing what it does than we are at doing what we do. It moves fast, it mutates fast, and it greatly outnumbers us. Our vaccine efforts are just flat-out too slow. Regardless if we are doing everything we can or not, it's just not good enough. Really, for us to stop the mutations, we need everyone to be vaccines by the end of this month. It needs to be done NOW, not the end of the summer, not winter, now. That wont happen and so the virus will continue to mutate, we will react, but as with the first attempt our reaction will be too slow and it will mutate again and again. We just arnt fast enough or good enough at what we do to realistically stop it.

Edited by Westerly

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Florida's Governor held a 'round table' discussion about measures to address the pandemic.

About how shutdowns don't work and masks aren't effective.

One of the 'world renowned' doctors was a radiologist, not an epidemiologist.

The video ended up on YouTube, linked through a TV station's news site.

Due to the misinformation in it, YouTube removed it.

So, of course, DeSantis is now whining about "another blatant example of Big Tech attempting to silence those who disagree with their woke corporate agenda."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/youtube-pulls-florida-governor-s-video-says-his-panel-spread-n1263635?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_lw&fbclid=IwAR3COJhV8ujdt8CTVWzmJVhaEcZcRUyJVhvm34V19c2dIan24L69XsHjeks

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(edited)

If masks and shut downs were effective, why does Michigan have more than twice the new covid cases while having a smaller population than Florida?  What do mask mandates get Michigan?  Double the COVID with half the population and a greater unemployment rate >:(

Edited by brenthutch

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23 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

If masks and shut downs were effective, why does Michigan have more than twice the new covid cases while having a smaller population than Florida?  What do mask mandates get Michigan?  Double the COVID with half the population and a greater unemployment rate >:(

Well Trump said covid goes away when it’s warmer. So Florida has an unfair advantage over Michigan.

People in Florida probably go outside in March more than people in Michigan.

I also think you’re making the assumption that mask mandates were followed to the letter. I have no data on that but I suspect that a significant percentage of Michiganders care little about them.

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(edited)
On 4/10/2021 at 4:06 PM, billvon said:

Like I said, nothing changes for me.  I don't even have antibodies yet.

My best friend's blood test shows no antibodies, 4 weeks after 2nd Moderna shot.  Discouraging, but not surprising for someone with early stage plasma cell cancer.   A small study of people with blood cancers showed only something like 13% had detectable antibodies 3 weeks after the 1st injection (Pfizer, if I recall correctly) -- normal people 97%.  So, still masking, no restaurants or take-out, sanitizing all groceries, no travel, no friends inside.

Edited by headoverheels

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On 4/11/2021 at 8:03 AM, BIGUN said:

Short course:  Who the fuck told the Marines they had a choice on getting the vaccine? Senior leadership needs to make the call and tell them to get it or get the fuck out.  

These vaccines are approved only for emergency use, therefore all service members are permitted to choose not to take them (only fully approved vaccines are non-negotiable).  There is no punishment for not getting vaccinated, but that doesn't mean there are not consequences. For example, PNG is experiencing a violent surge of COVID cases.  We pulled out all the visiting forces and sent them home (some were already departing, so the non-vaccinated, longer-term visitors were sent out on the same a/c that came to pick up the departing group).  PNG is now listed by State Dept. as Category 4, which means we have a "do not visit" recommendation. 

The process for getting foreigners permission to visit PNG is arduous; however, I am willing to facilitate military units still trying to come in to conduct civ-mil construction projects and other support activities. One requirement is that each parent command must have their own plan in place for exfil if necessary (not to rely on the embassy). The other is that only vaccinated personnel will be considered for entry.  One such group has one member who isn't vaccinated. They pushed back on my refusal at first, but their higher echelon agreed with my assessment and that member will remain behind.

Being pulled from that team may not be a punishment, but it is still a consequence.

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On 4/11/2021 at 9:12 PM, sfzombie13 said:

in the army they are also refusing, they just haven't released the rates yet.  last i heard it was around 30%.  i can't see the eua keeping it from being mandatory, unless they really have given them rights we didn't have when i was in.  in the desert, they had a vaccine we were made to get, some tried to refuse it, but we were told we had no choice.  i found out a few years ago it was an experimental vaccine, no fda eua even, and they had gotten permission to use us a test subjects.  thing is, they were also required to get our permission first, written and signed for the test.  not once did anyone tell us what it was, let alone ask for permission or to sign anything.  maybe they take better care of our troops now, but i highly doubt it.  i think it was all politicized way too much and that is the reason they let them choose.

It is actually because of this very event for Gulf War I that military members are no longer allowed to be test subjects (should have happened after WWII, but sometimes we're a bit slow). 

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(edited)
20 hours ago, headoverheels said:

 sanitizing all groceries

I have to laugh at that one. There seems to be two groups of people. Those who dont even think the virus is real and it's all some made-up bullshit conspiracy by the dems to de-thrown the rightful leader (Trump) and those who think that if they dont drink bleach and sanitize every surface of their house every 30 minutes they will surely die.

Wiping down your groceries accomplishes absolutely nothing. The virus does not spread that way. It spreads by airborne contact from another infected human. The chances of you getting Covid because someone infected touched your pizza box and then you touched it is next to zero. The majority of the cleaning agents people are using to sanitize their surfaces are harmful to humans. Not if you have proper PPE, but if you dont and you're using that stuff every day, it absolutely can harm you. I personally know of a patient who developed serious lung disease from spraying disinfectant at work all day on a daily basis for months.

Edited by Westerly

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7 hours ago, Westerly said:

Wiping down your groceries accomplishes absolutely nothing. The virus does not spread that way. It spreads by airborne contact from another infected human. The chances of you getting Covid because someone infected touched your pizza box and then you touched it is next to zero. The majority of the cleaning agents people are using to sanitize their surfaces are harmful to humans. Not if you have proper PPE, but if you dont and you're using that stuff every day, it absolutely can harm you. I personally know of a patient who developed serious lung disease from spraying disinfectant at work all day on a daily basis for months.

But, that's what Doctors were teaching. 

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32 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

But, that's what Doctors were teaching. 

For a short while, and not that many doctors.

The thing is, it doesn't impact westerly in the least, what headoverheel's friend does. Except that it gives them an "opportunity" to make cheap fun of someone. And if it makes h/h's friend more comfortable with managing his health, then who cares? Frankly, the interchange says a lot more about westerly than to h/h's friend.

I soaked my greens for awhile (never did wipe down boxes etc). But then I grew up overseas, and soaking the greens was something we just did anyway, because everyone else did, and people who soaked their greens generally didn't get sick.

Wendy P

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(edited)
1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

But, that's what Doctors were teaching. 

Current CDC guidelines "After unpacking groceries, wash your hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. If soap and water are not available, use a hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol."

But more important than groceries. Its important to avoid republicans now and in the future.

"The results of the Monmouth poll lined up with those of a separate survey by Quinnipiac University, also released on Wednesday, that found 45 percent of Republicans saying they did not plan to get vaccinated."

Edited by Phil1111

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6 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

For a short while, and not that many doctors.

Morning, Wendy.

I know I cleaned my groceries during the early days of the pandemic and make no apologies for doing so. My little girl and I were in isolation together and I was going to listen to every recommendation a doctor made to protect her. At that time, there were reports of COVID remaining on paper bags for X days and on plastic for even longer. I followed this Dr.'s advice to the letter except; I cleaned everything on a clean stainless steel table in the garage (I have a fridge in the garage), so I staged the whole process.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKx-F4AKteE

Then, I disinfected my vehicle and myself before bringing the groceries inside. It was about an hour long process - but, having said all that; was MOPP 4 qualified in the military and had my HAZWOPER certification for disaster & emergency response, so it was real-world training for me.   

In the end; a friend of mine is the CMO for a large hospital here (former combat surgeon) and I sent him my process for review and he said he wished everyone did it. And, that was during a time when the ICU's were maxed out. 

The bottom line is: We didn't know and it was better to do too much and be wrong, than not enough and be wrong. 

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