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airdvr

The Trial of Derek Chauvin

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26 minutes ago, billvon said:

Edited to add - I take that back about her being a good lawyer.  The judge disqualified her from the case because she "violated the rules of professional conduct for attorneys."

Well, to be fair, that would raise a lawyer's profile in Trumplandia.

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(edited)
3 hours ago, billvon said:

To review:

Olof said "11ng/ml is not a lethal amount of fentanyl."  You said "the coroner disagreed" and presented that document as proof.

So I took a look, and nowhere did the coroner claim that Floyd had a lethal level of fentanyl in his system.  His exact comment about the level was "that's pretty high" which is likely true.

The lawyer, Amy Sweasy, then added her opinion, which is "that is a fatal level of fentanyl."  And while she is no doubt a good lawyer, she is neither a doctor nor a coroner.  So Olof is correct - and her opinion is just that, an opinion.

Edited to add - I take that back about her being a good lawyer.  The judge disqualified her from the case because she "violated the rules of professional conduct for attorneys."

Hi Bill,

Re:  she "violated the rules of professional conduct for attorneys."

By now, everyone probably knows my son is an attorney.  When we get together we often talk about how attorneys get themselves into trouble; always some fun discussions.

Disclaimer:  I am a Registered Professional Engineer and about once a year I get a newsletter from California ( where I am registered ) and almost every issue has some info about what some engineers have done to lose their license(s) or have their license(s) suspended.

:$

Jerry Baumchen

Edited by JerryBaumchen

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5 hours ago, airdvr said:

Earlier in the thread I recanted my statement that Floyd absolutely died of an OD.  I presented possibilities of a lethal amount of drugs in his system.  I didn't make it up.

Sure you recanted that it absolutely happened - but you still say that's what happens and that Chauvin should be treated as if that's what happened.

And yes, you presented evidence of drugs in his system - but seriously, how is that so compelling to you? Floyd was walking around all day with drugs in his system. Walking around, driving around, going shopping, apparently comitting petty theft with counterfeit notes - all without ODing. Then the cops turn up, and at the exact time one of them kneels on his neck for an extended period of time while he specifically complains of being unable to breath because of the knee on his neck.... that's when he just happens to die of an OD. Just random coincidence that while Chauvin is kneeling on his neck in a way that all of the training officers and experts in his own force say is not an approved technique because of the danger of suffocation, he suffocates. But because of the drugs, not the knee is, is how you see it.

 

Seriously, you expect anyone to believe that you really believe that?

Quote

Political pressure?  Media frenzy?  Martyrdom?  Vengeance?  These are realities as well.

And have nothing to do with the trial. Your claim that the trial is rigged and is a foregone conclusion is even more outlandish and insulting than your claim that Floyd just died. It is unbelievably difficult to convict a cop of any violent offence in the line of duty, let alone murder. Every precedent there is shows that cops are the ultimate protected class in the US justice system. Prosecutors don't want to try them and the blue wall closes around them. For Chauvin to be not only facing these charges in court, but for so many officers in his own force to be testifying against him is staggering. The chances that a major Police Department would throw one of their own under the bus just to satisfy some liberal social justice movement are zero. You can't even say it without laughing. That they are standing in court testifying that Chauvin was acting outside the law shows just how egregious and obvious his wrongdoing was. Even they know there's no chance of hiding it - but you, supposedly, disagree.

Again, just give me one straight answer - you don't really believe what you're saying, do you?

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2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Both are a possibility.  If you don't think the forces at play here are massive you're fooling yourself.

Yes, the forces that protect cops from the legal consequences of their wrongdoings are massive. The fact that this case has (so far) broken through that barrier is highly significant, and you are indeed fooling yourself if you can't see how compellin the case against him is in order to have made that happen.

Quote

You guys attack like I said somewhere that I think Chauvin should go free.  He killed that man in as much as he ignored his duty of care.  I still don't believe he intended to kill Floyd, and certainly not in front of as many cameras as were recording.

Again, your attempt to describe Chauvin with language appropriate to a passive bystander whose only wrongdoing was to not take an active role in what happened is an insult to Floyd, his family, and our intelligence. It is also a desperate lie from someone who is forcing his version of events to fit his politically correct opinion of those events.

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17 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

Re:  she "violated the rules of professional conduct for attorneys."

By now, everyone probably knows my son is an attorney.  When we get together we often talk about how attorneys get themselves into trouble; always some fun discussions.

Disclaimer:  I am a Register Professional Engineer and about once a year I get a newsletter from California ( where I am registered ) and almost every issue has some info about what some engineers have done to lose their license(s) or have their license(s) suspended.

:$

Jerry Baumchen

Yeah but thats probably from not double checking your slide rule calculations. Using the wrong kind of steel in a project. Not from trying to trade sex for a discount off a padded legal bill.

Is there even such a thing as engineering jokes?

Which reminds me: Stormy Daniels' ex-lawyer Michael Avenatti guilty over extortion

Sentencing in May, stay tuned.

 

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7 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Is there even such a thing as engineering jokes?

 

That is freakin' hilarious. But don't you be selling Jerry short. I'm sure he's offered to trade sex for a number of things, quite a number I'd wager.

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29 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Is there even such a thing as engineering jokes?

Engineer is walking down a road.  He hears "Hey!  You!  Help!"  He looks around, and he sees nothing but a big frog by a puddle.

"Yeah, that's right, it's me, the frog!  I'm actually a princess that's been cursed by a witch.  You know that story, right?  Well it really happened.  Now I need someone to kiss me so I will turn back into a princess."

The engineer is surprised, then thoughtful.  He picks up the frog and puts it in his backpack.

"Hey!  Listen, you drive a hard bargain.  But if you kiss me I'll give you a reward.  I have some money."

The engineer thinks about it then keeps walking.

"OK OK.  You do realize that I'm a beautiful princess, right?  If you kiss me I'll stay with you and . . . uh . . . do anything you ask.  Anything!"

The engineer thinks about some more then keeps walking.

"What do I have to do to get you to kiss me?" wails the frog.

"Well, I wouldn't know what to do with a princess," says the engineer.  "But a talking frog is pretty cool."

 

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31 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

That is freakin' hilarious. But don't you be selling Jerry short. I'm sure he's offered to trade sex for a number of things, quite a number I'd wager.

Hi Joe,

As I have said for many years, the sex you get from marriage is the most expensive there is.

Jerry Baumchen

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On 4/8/2021 at 8:36 AM, airdvr said:

I am extremely privileged.  I'll be the first to admit it.  Your attempt to shame me with it fails.

Earlier in the thread I recanted my statement that Floyd absolutely died of an OD.  I presented possibilities of a lethal amount of drugs in his system.  I didn't make it up.

Political pressure?  Media frenzy?  Martyrdom?  Vengeance?  These are realities as well.

How am I attempting to 'shame' you?

The White Privilege I'm talking about isn't being applied to you.

It's you giving it to Chauvin.

 

You originally claimed Floyd died of an OD (later recanted).

You've claimed that the autopsy done by the family is biased.

You claimed in the OP that Chauvin won't get a fair trial.
I've repeatedly asked what you mean by that. I have yet to see a specific response.

Just vague assertions that the city isn't ready for the aftermath of the verdict, that there are 'forces' in play, that the outcome is already determined.

You've said you don't want to believe that Chauvin deliberately killed Floyd.

You said that Chauvin 'could have saved' Floyd. As was pointed out, that's sort of true. He could have 'saved' him by not murdering him.

All of those claims point to the idea that you don't want to see Chauvin convicted.

The idea that Chauvin should be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law is a principle our justice system is founded on.
The idea that white cops should be able to get away with murdering black people is not.

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The trial is going very badly for the defense. The more I hear about the testimony the more I realize that most likely Chauvin Decided while he was kneeling on the neck of the victim that he wanted to experience killing with his own hands instead of at a distance with a gun like he had before. The man is going to be found guilty of murder. 

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1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

The trial is going very badly for the defense. The more I hear about the testimony the more I realize that most likely Chauvin Decided while he was kneeling on the neck of the victim that he wanted to experience killing with his own hands instead of at a distance with a gun like he had before. The man is going to be found guilty of murder. 

I think second degree manslaughter is the most likely - a careless act that took someone's life.  It's going to be the charge that the jury can most easily agree on; they will not feel like they are letting a guilty man walk.  Third degree murder is a possibility but less of one IMO.  For that they have to prove that Chauvin caused the death "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life."  That will be tougher to prove, since it speaks to state of mind, and nothing is easier to sow confusion on than the state of someone's mind.

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(edited)
9 minutes ago, billvon said:

For that they have to prove that Chauvin caused the death "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life."  That will be tougher to prove, since it speaks to state of mind, and nothing is easier to sow confusion on than the state of someone's mind.

I think the timeline makes it a lot easier. That Chauvin carried on suffocating Floyd for so long after he was unresponsive, and still carried on for so long after he was obviously dead makes it even easier to show he was acting with depraved disregard for human life than to show he was responsible for Floyd's death. Even if Airdvr was somehow right and Chauvin didn't kill Floyd he was still acting with clear disregard for his life.

Edited by jakee

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18 minutes ago, billvon said:

For that they have to prove that Chauvin caused the death "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life."  That will be tougher to prove, since it speaks to state of mind, and nothing is easier to sow confusion on than the state of someone's mind.

More challenging for sure, but it seems highly plausible at this point.

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1 hour ago, billvon said:

I think second degree manslaughter is the most likely - a careless act that took someone's life.  It's going to be the charge that the jury can most easily agree on; they will not feel like they are letting a guilty man walk.  Third degree murder is a possibility but less of one IMO.  For that they have to prove that Chauvin caused the death "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life."  That will be tougher to prove, since it speaks to state of mind, and nothing is easier to sow confusion on than the state of someone's mind.

Hi Bill,

Re:  I think second degree manslaughter is the most likely

I've thought this for some time now; for the same reasons you list.

Jerry Baumchen

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(edited)

The degrees of murder thing always seems strange to me.

Either you meant to kill someone or you didn’t, but that might be my UK showing through.

I still don’t believe Chauvin meant to kill Floyd but didn’t care if he did. Which for me is manslaughter with some sort of insanity attached.

Edited by yoink

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3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

Re:  I think second degree manslaughter is the most likely

I've thought this for some time now; for the same reasons you list.

Jerry Baumchen

Anything less than 2nd degree murder and Minnesota will burn and many more people will die.:(

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4 hours ago, yoink said:

The degrees of murder thing always seems strange to me.

Either you meant to kill someone or you didn’t,

Right.  Chauvin didn't mean to kill him, and none of the prosecutors are claiming that he did.  He did, however, do something that could reasonably be expected to kill someone, and thus through his carelessness and disregard for human life, caused Floyd's death.  Thus manslaughter instead of murder.

Imagine getting into a car falling down drunk and trying to drive home, then killing someone crossing the street.  That's not murder.  But it's manslaughter, because a reasonable person could have expected that outcome.  (Even if the person crossing the street just took a hit of fentanyl.)

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1 minute ago, billvon said:

Right.  Chauvin didn't mean to kill him, and none of the prosecutors are claiming that he did. 

The man was physically in close contact with Floyd as he lost consciousness and his life ended. I believe that it would be impossible for a man with Chauvin's experience not to realize what was happening. Many of the witnesses did. At some point during the event he realized that death was imminent and he made a decision to finish the job. Because he wanted to, and felt that he could get away with it. It was murder. 

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24 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The man was physically in close contact with Floyd as he lost consciousness and his life ended. I believe that it would be impossible for a man with Chauvin's experience not to realize what was happening. Many of the witnesses did. At some point during the event he realized that death was imminent and he made a decision to finish the job. Because he wanted to, and felt that he could get away with it. It was murder. 

Perhaps.  But none of the charges require that he intended to murder Floyd.

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(edited)

Not Derek Chauvin related. But apparently the USA is not the only nation where being black is reason enough for LEO harassment.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/13/uk/met-police-officer-jailed-knee-scli-intl-gbr/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

But at least in jolly old England they are less likely to be shot dead.

Edited by gowlerk

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27 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Not Derek Chauvin related. But apparently the USA is not the only nation where being black is reason enough for LEO harassment.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/13/uk/met-police-officer-jailed-knee-scli-intl-gbr/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

But at least in jolly old England they are less likely to be shot dead.

Absolutely, we have some seriously racist individuals and departments in the UK too. But at least in this case the victim isn't dead and the scumbag is in prison.

 

Meanwhile the Chauvin defense is arguing that because he was in the general vicinity of a car exhaust it's more likely that he died of carbon monoxide poisoning than anything that scumbag did. Wow.

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50 minutes ago, jakee said:

Meanwhile the Chauvin defense is arguing that because he was in the general vicinity of a car exhaust it's more likely that he died of carbon monoxide poisoning than anything that scumbag did. Wow.

Instead of Chauvin, we should be going after the guy who forced him to stay on the ground next to the exhaust pipe!  WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE?

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