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The Trial of Derek Chauvin

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4 minutes ago, murps2000 said:

I don’t mean to suggest that a baton would have any effect at all in real life and in this situation. I don’t even recall a movie where that tactic worked either. 

It was a favorite tactic of TJ Hooker IIRC.

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9 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Works in movies, not in real life.

in this case it doesn't have to trip her, just distract and/or hurt her enough to stop moving for long enough for an officer to cover the ground.  of course that would have to be something intended and not just spur of the moment, and it may well not have any effect at all.  and it could have been thrown at her body or arms and actually work better than trying to trip her.  but again, it has to be a tactic, not an afterthought.  we need better and more non-lethal options for police, or training to use them in every scenario with no exceptions first.  then when it is habit, introduce lethal means to the training, as a last resort and last in line.  something like 5:1 non-lethal v. lethal.  when you practice something a lot, it becomes your go to action.  right now, they practice shooting a lot and look where it has gotten us.  and again, it all may be a pipe dream and may not work in real life, but something needs done.

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(edited)
20 hours ago, murps2000 said:

Interesting the suggestion to possibly throw a baton to trip up the knife wielding girl. Can police do nothing else but shoot to kill? Why not a good shot to the thigh? I wondered the same thing years ago when SFPD unloaded on a clearly mentally disturbed individual in the city who also had a knife.

That's a joke of a suggestion. It's straight out of fantasy.

What sfzombie is suggesting is the absolute best possible outcome. You have to consider what happens if the throw misses. Or doesn't distract the assailant enough.

Now you've got the same situation with someone getting stabbed and I guarantee you that every single one of you would be on here absolutely CRUCIFYING the officer when that bodycam footage was released.

Edited by yoink
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1 hour ago, murps2000 said:

Very observant. Looked like she was using her legs to move around too. Not saying police had any other choice in this situation though.

I just rewatched the video to make sure I'm not just crazy... She was literally mid-stab at the time she was shot. The person she was about to stab was against an obstacle. There's no ambiguity here. Any suggestion of using less force here is absurd.

1 hour ago, murps2000 said:

Not saying police had any other choice in this situation though.

This seems to be in conflict with most of your other comments.

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51 minutes ago, nwt said:

I just rewatched the video to make sure I'm not just crazy... She was literally mid-stab at the time she was shot. The person she was about to stab was against an obstacle. There's no ambiguity here. Any suggestion of using less force here is absurd.

While it's kinda seperate to the discussion of what the officer saw and had to react to - you still don't know that. Again, this altercation was going on for quite a long time before the cops showed up and no one was stabbed. Is it just coincidence and she finally decided to stab someone just as the cops showed up? Could be. 

But is there a good chance no-one would be dead or seriously injured if the cop hadn't shot her? IMO yes there is. And there are many, many more instances out there far more ambiguous than this where lethal force was also the first, second and third option used and was 'justified' when it quite probably didn't need to be.

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On 4/22/2021 at 12:07 PM, RonD1120 said:

IMO: If you are a white cop in a major metropolitan area, resign.

Here's another reason why it really would be fucking awesome if every cop who was worried about the Chauvin verdict resigned immediately. After violently arresting woman, 73, with dementia, police laughed about it, video shows: ‘We crushed it’

Last June, Karen Garner sat handcuffed to a bench inside a booking cell weeping and in pain.

No one had come to treat her fractured arm and dislocated shoulder hours after Loveland, Colo., police violently arrested the 73-year-old with dementia, her family said.

Meanwhile, about 10 feet away, three officers sat hunched around a computer as they re-watched body-camera footage of Garner’s arrest, a new video released by the attorney representing Garner’s family shows.

“Ready for the pop? Hear the pop?” the officer who initially handcuffed Garner can be heard saying, referencing the moment he injured her shoulder.

She had been accused of shoplifting items worth $13.88, and the PD did nothing about her treatment for 9 months before eventualy 'opening an investigation' after the body cam footage was leaked. While I hope to god these assholes also go to jail, it would be far, far better if their fellow assholes handed in their badges before doing more shit like this to other people.

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1 hour ago, murps2000 said:

Maybe re read what I posted a bit more closely? I posted a link to the incident I was referring to. It wasn’t this one. 

Looks like I lost track. Easy to do when people use only pronouns.

6 minutes ago, jakee said:

Is it just coincidence and she finally decided to stab someone just as the cops showed up? Could be. 

I don't understand your point here. What difference does it make whether or not that timing was coincidental?

8 minutes ago, jakee said:

But is there a good chance no-one would be dead or seriously injured if the cop hadn't shot her? IMO yes there is

I don't think anyone would dispute that, but this isn't a standard that make any kind of logical sense. The relevant question is whether or not there's a good chance someone would be killed or seriously injured without the shooting, and the answer here is also yes. If we have to give everyone the benefit of every reasonable and even unreasonable doubt to the degree you are applying here, then no shooting could ever be justified as this is about as clear as it gets. If you are advocating for no police to have guns in any situation, then please just come out and say it.

12 minutes ago, jakee said:

there are many, many more instances out there far more ambiguous than this where lethal force was also the first, second and third option used and was 'justified' when it quite probably didn't need to be.

Again you're arguing a position nobody is disputing

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1 minute ago, nwt said:

I don't understand your point here. What difference does it make whether or not that timing was coincidental?

You don;t know that it was a coincidence because you don't know it was happening at all.

Quote

I don't think anyone would dispute that, but this isn't a standard that make any kind of logical sense. The relevant question is whether or not there's a good chance someone would be killed or seriously injured without the shooting, and the answer here is also yes. If we have to give everyone the benefit of every reasonable and even unreasonable doubt to the degree you are applying here, then no shooting could ever be justified as this is about as clear as it gets. If you are advocating for no police to have guns in any situation, then please just come out and say it.

You made a blanket statement about lethal force being option 1, 2 and 3 that did not appear to be limited to analasys of this situation only. If you only ever intended to talk about this one incident and nothing else then ok, but it sure did not sound like that.

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25 minutes ago, jakee said:

Here's another reason why it really would be fucking awesome if every cop who was worried about the Chauvin verdict resigned immediately. After violently arresting woman, 73, with dementia, police laughed about it, video shows: ‘We crushed it’

Last June, Karen Garner sat handcuffed to a bench inside a booking cell weeping and in pain.

No one had come to treat her fractured arm and dislocated shoulder hours after Loveland, Colo., police violently arrested the 73-year-old with dementia, her family said.

Meanwhile, about 10 feet away, three officers sat hunched around a computer as they re-watched body-camera footage of Garner’s arrest, a new video released by the attorney representing Garner’s family shows.

“Ready for the pop? Hear the pop?” the officer who initially handcuffed Garner can be heard saying, referencing the moment he injured her shoulder.

She had been accused of shoplifting items worth $13.88, and the PD did nothing about her treatment for 9 months before eventualy 'opening an investigation' after the body cam footage was leaked. While I hope to god these assholes also go to jail, it would be far, far better if their fellow assholes handed in their badges before doing more shit like this to other people.

Also a fine indication of how indeed a few rotten apples do spoil the whole bunch.

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7 hours ago, jakee said:

Here's another reason why it really would be fucking awesome if every cop who was worried about the Chauvin verdict resigned immediately. After violently arresting woman, 73, with dementia, police laughed about it, video shows: ‘We crushed it’

Last June, Karen Garner sat handcuffed to a bench inside a booking cell weeping and in pain.

No one had come to treat her fractured arm and dislocated shoulder hours after Loveland, Colo., police violently arrested the 73-year-old with dementia, her family said.

Meanwhile, about 10 feet away, three officers sat hunched around a computer as they re-watched body-camera footage of Garner’s arrest, a new video released by the attorney representing Garner’s family shows.

“Ready for the pop? Hear the pop?” the officer who initially handcuffed Garner can be heard saying, referencing the moment he injured her shoulder.

She had been accused of shoplifting items worth $13.88, and the PD did nothing about her treatment for 9 months before eventualy 'opening an investigation' after the body cam footage was leaked. While I hope to god these assholes also go to jail, it would be far, far better if their fellow assholes handed in their badges before doing more shit like this to other people.

This is just 35 miles North of me.

3 of them have resigned:

3 Loveland PD employees resign after arrest of 73-year-old with dementia

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9 hours ago, gowlerk said:

73 yo white woman? Not even a senator from SC will defend them!

she had a mental defect, dementia.  that makes her sub-human, like when the abortion survivors are out of the womb and no longer count.

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17 hours ago, jakee said:

You don;t know that it was a coincidence because you don't know it was happening at all.

You made a blanket statement about lethal force being option 1, 2 and 3 that did not appear to be limited to analasys of this situation only. If you only ever intended to talk about this one incident and nothing else then ok, but it sure did not sound like that.

Analysis is never his strong point. You might try whistling in a hurricane for better results.

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On 4/30/2021 at 1:42 PM, jakee said:

You don;t know that it was a coincidence because you don't know it was happening at all.

Don't know what was happening? You've lost me.

On 4/30/2021 at 1:42 PM, jakee said:

You made a blanket statement about lethal force being option 1, 2 and 3 that did not appear to be limited to analasys of this situation only. If you only ever intended to talk about this one incident and nothing else then ok, but it sure did not sound like that.

That was intended to be specifically about the situation where a person was shot by a cop as she drew her knife back to stab another person that was trapped against an obstacle. I do not support lethal force being options 1-3 in all situations. Sorry for the confusion.

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On 4/30/2021 at 8:39 PM, ryoder said:

This is just 35 miles North of me.

3 of them have resigned:

3 Loveland PD employees resign after arrest of 73-year-old with dementia

Charges filed:

https://coloradosun.com/2021/05/19/austin-hopp-daria-jalali-assault-charges-karen-garner/?utm_source=The+Colorado+Sun+Newsletters&utm_campaign=9eca9d2bf8-SUNRISER_2021-05-20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_61e0bd63dc-9eca9d2bf8-66910994&mc_cid=9eca9d2bf8&mc_eid=d06540572c

 

Funny how fast the charges came once the video was made public.

The fact that the cops knew about it for over a year, and did nothing about it...

Yeah. Right.

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I agree, unacceptable. That said, just look at some of the discussions in our own Incidents forum, where people don’t want to have things discussed in detail by outside parties. 
That bright light can be uncomfortable. And the more we, as a people, call media our enemies, the more likely things are to get swept under the rug. 
Wendy P. 

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

I agree, unacceptable. That said, just look at some of the discussions in our own Incidents forum, where people don’t want to have things discussed in detail by outside parties. 
That bright light can be uncomfortable. And the more we, as a people, call media our enemies, the more likely things are to get swept under the rug. 
Wendy P. 

Same as moving the child abusing priest to the next parish. It's the easiest thing to do when you and your organization are corrupt and you still want a chance to advance within it. People who rock the boat know they will likely be pushed overboard and left to drown.

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Cops Strip-Searched a Black Teen in the Street in Broad Daylight

Then, they searched the family home with guns drawn. 

This is one of those "WTF were you thinking moments." Not just; you were a dumb-shit, but you were both dumb-shits. 

Of particular note in the article:

"All of the officers involved in this incident have continued to work on the force, and no punishment has been handed down for the cop who exposed and touched the teen and his older brother, or any of the other officers, according to WAFB. There is now an investigation into Sgt. Camallo's role in the incident.  

Louisiana State representative Ted James said he believes qualified immunity, or the inability for individual offices to get sued, is to blame for disturbing overreach of power by the Baton Rouge cop’s last year."

No shit. I'll say it again - qualified and sovereign immunity allows this type of stupid shit to continue.   

 

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