The Trial of Derek Chauvin

[lippy 764]

14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Yep. But a day or 8 years doesn't mean he wont leave alive. That's just your add on.

To be fair, it's a pretty safe bet for airdvr.  If Chauvin dies of a heart attack 2 days before release, airdvr gets to come here and scream how he was right.  If Chauvin walks out of prison at a brisk 82 years of age, who is going to come back to this thread and make airdvr eat crow?

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 minutes ago, lippy said:

To be fair, it's a pretty safe bet for airdvr.  If Chauvin dies of a heart attack 2 days before release, airdvr gets to come here and scream how he was right.  If Chauvin walks out of prison at a brisk 82 years of age, who is going to come back to this thread and make airdvr eat crow?

I wasn't offering a bet. I was pointing out what might be a best way forward.

[lippy 764]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I wasn't offering a bet. I was pointing out what might be a best way forward.

As always, well stated Joe. 

[Phil1111 901]

Concurrent sentences are designed to address multiple charges arising from the same offense. It deals with the inequity whereby multiple guilty convictions would result in more time than murder. When the stacked convictions are of a substantially minor nature. Or closely linked offenses.

Every prison system has ways of segregating prisoners. Be it gang members,"rats", child molesters or cops.

I'd say 20-25 years concurrent on all convictions.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

Concurrent sentences are designed to address multiple charges arising from the same offense. It deals with the inequity whereby multiple guilty convictions would result in more time than murder. When the stacked convictions are of a substantially minor nature. Or closely linked offenses.

Every prison system has ways of segregating prisoners. Be it gang members,"rats", child molesters or cops.

I'd say 20-25 years concurrent on all convictions.

That's fine but I also hope it gets reduced. The thing is that like it or not Chauvin was just being a cop. We've all known, those being harassed and killed by cops and we who aren't, that cops needed to be controlled but we did nothing. So we own it, too. 

[jakee 1,254]

5 hours ago, airdvr said:

Your words.

Have you misunderstood the word 'concurrently'? It is not 'consecutively'.

[jakee 1,254]

5 hours ago, airdvr said:

He'll never make it out of prison.

If that troubles you then you should start advocating for prison reform.

 

Did you pay attention to the trial? Did the (IMO) overwhelming case made by the prosecution change your mind?

[RonD1120 58]

IMO: If you are a white cop in a major metropolitan area, resign.

[airdvr 197]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

Did you pay attention to the trial? Did the (IMO) overwhelming case made by the prosecution change your mind?

My mind didn't need changing.

I stopped watching media trials after OJ.

[wmw999 2,114]

The deal is, if you can identify with a white cop (and you're not a cop) more easily than you can with a black person (and you're not a black person), then the whiteness takes precedence over the person. That doesn't mean you're a racist, but it does mean that race colors your evaluation. Racist is getting to be an awfully binary word, which makes it less and less useful in discussion meant to actually further understanding rather than one-upmanship.

Wendy P.

[jakee 1,254]

20 minutes ago, airdvr said:

My mind didn't need changing.

I don’t understand what that means. The only way I can make sense of it is that you are simply not interested in checking the available information to check if your viewpoint is correct. And sure, you can do that if you want - but I don’t see how you can justify starting this thread to stand on a soapbox and declare to everybody the injustice that Chauvin is facing when you neither know nor care if your opinion matches reality. 
 

This was not the OJ trial. The medical testimony presented by the prosecution was clear, meticulous and overwhelming. Overwhelming enough to convince a jury to convict a police officer, and to convince even the police themselves that the conviction was right.

 

What are you afraid will happen if you look at it for yourself?

[airdvr 197]

18 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

The deal is, if you can identify with a white cop (and you're not a cop) more easily than you can with a black person (and you're not a black person), then the whiteness takes precedence over the person. That doesn't mean you're a racist, but it does mean that race colors your evaluation. Racist is getting to be an awfully binary word, which makes it less and less useful in discussion meant to actually further understanding rather than one-upmanship.

Wendy P.

We all have a filter we run things through.  It's our experiences that color our evaluation.

And, the term racist was hardly ever useful in discussions.  It's not a term, it's a label and no one wants to be labeled.

[jakee 1,254]

51 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

IMO: If you are a white cop in a major metropolitan area, resign.

IMO if you are a cop worried you will end up in Chauvin’s position you should resign, and the good cops you leave behind will be thankful for it.

[Phil1111 901]

9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

That's fine but I also hope it gets reduced. The thing is that like it or not Chauvin was just being a cop. We've all known, those being harassed and killed by cops and we who aren't, that cops needed to be controlled but we did nothing. So we own it, too. 

Along your line of thinking there are the three other cops who did nothing. Who are still awaiting trial. Chauvin has no priors.

But the 9.5 minutes wasn't a split second mistake like the taser/gun recent shooting. IMO it shows a certain callousness to life and his job. Certainly a mob mentality to vengeance against him needs to be shunned.

[sfzombie13 307]

9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

That's fine but I also hope it gets reduced. The thing is that like it or not Chauvin was just being a cop. We've all known, those being harassed and killed by cops and we who aren't, that cops needed to be controlled but we did nothing. So we own it, too. 

maybe YOU did nothing, but I did all sorts of things.  i went to protests, started writing articles, started publicly calling out racists on the internet (and sometimes in real life, although living in a state full of them, i have to be more careful), actively support my friends of color, and if i had found a few folks to help one time, would have pulled down a statue of stonewall jackson at the capitol.  i had the truck and a few chains, but that thing is heavy.  anyone with those stupid blue line flags owns it, along with all of those with the "few bad apples" bullshit.  the bad apples were left with the bunch too long and are almost all spoiled now.  i, and most folks i know and care about,  own none of it.  you may, and good on you to admit it.  now do something about it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

1 hour ago, RonD1120 said:

IMO: If you are a white cop in a major metropolitan area, resign.

Why?
Because they won't be allowed to get away with murdering Black people anymore?

Or to show "those people" what happens when they get uppity and insist on the cops following the law in addition to enforcing it?

[Phil1111 901]

4 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Why?
Because they won't be allowed to get away with murdering Black people anymore?

Or to show "those people" what happens when they get uppity and insist on the cops following the law in addition to enforcing it?

Because Ron wants order in the cities to collapse.Because the leftists are in the cities. Because a breakdown of society is what some dream of. They believe armageddon will bring back trump, the right, for some even "confederacy".

[airdvr 197]

2 hours south of me yesterday...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/us/ohio-columbus-police-shooting-15-year-old/index.html

The line is already forming of those who would jump to the conclusion that the officer was wrong.  He might be wrong.  I don't know.  The video seems to show the girl with a knife.  However, NBA star LeBron didn't waste any time.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

36 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

maybe YOU did nothing, but I did all sorts of things.  i went to protests, started writing articles, started publicly calling out racists on the internet (and sometimes in real life, although living in a state full of them, i have to be more careful), actively support my friends of color, and if i had found a few folks to help one time, would have pulled down a statue of stonewall jackson at the capitol.  i had the truck and a few chains, but that thing is heavy.  anyone with those stupid blue line flags owns it, along with all of those with the "few bad apples" bullshit.  the bad apples were left with the bunch too long and are almost all spoiled now.  i, and most folks i know and care about,  own none of it.  you may, and good on you to admit it.  now do something about it.

Your hair trigger needs a trim. We as in societal we. Not we as if we interviewed his sorry ass. As a society we hired him and others like him and, best I can tell, they all passed the interview with flying colors. If we don't want cops like him we need to fire HR and set up new criteria.

[sfzombie13 307]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Your hair trigger needs a trim. We as in societal we. Not we as if we interviewed his sorry ass. As a society we hired him and others like him and, best I can tell, they all passed the interview with flying colors. If we don't want cops like him we need to fire HR and set up new criteria.

no it doesn't, you need to adjust your views on who is to blame.  with the country as divided as it is, we need to do a lot less blaming and a lot more problem solving.  society is not to blame, a few racist bastards are to blame.  when i say few, i don't mean it literally, i just worked all day yesterday, until 4 am this morning and have two more jobs today.  i don't want to face the fact that almost half the country is racist as hell.  have a great day.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

27 minutes ago, airdvr said:

2 hours south of me yesterday...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/us/ohio-columbus-police-shooting-15-year-old/index.html

The line is already forming of those who would jump to the conclusion that the officer was wrong.  He might be wrong.  I don't know.  The video seems to show the girl with a knife.  However, NBA star LeBron didn't waste any time.

While it's true that there's a lot of criticism, lots and lots of people are saying we need to wait for the facts to come out.

From the preliminary video that's been released, it sure looks like a situation where deadly force was appropriate. 
The officers on scene also attempted to render aid immediately.

The thing is, there will be a complete investigation. 
A thorough & fair one.
Given the overall mood of the country, it's imperative.

I strongly suspect the officer will be found to have acted within the law & departmental policies.

Sad and a tragedy, but lunging at someone with a knife when there's a cop with a gun right there is not a smart move.

[lippy 764]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

2 hours south of me yesterday...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/us/ohio-columbus-police-shooting-15-year-old/index.html

The line is already forming of those who would jump to the conclusion that the officer was wrong.  He might be wrong.  I don't know.  The video seems to show the girl with a knife.  However, NBA star LeBron didn't waste any time.

And the far-right outrage of the morning is condemning LeBron James for 'inciting violence against a cop'.  Jesus, anything to distract and declare a new boogey-man!

Maybe in this specific case the shooting was justified, but taking history into account James reached a pretty reasonable conclusion and used his platform to voice a fucking justified frustration.  

 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, sfzombie13 said:

no it doesn't, you need to adjust your views on who is to blame.  with the country as divided as it is, we need to do a lot less blaming and a lot more problem solving.  society is not to blame, a few racist bastards are to blame.  when i say few, i don't mean it literally, i just worked all day yesterday, until 4 am this morning and have two more jobs today.  i don't want to face the fact that almost half the country is racist as hell.  have a great day.

Capital idea. Thanks, I will.

[billvon 2,379]

4 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

IMO: If you are a white cop in a major metropolitan area, resign.

IMO if you are a crooked, racist or criminal cop ANYWHERE - resign before you end up in jail.

That message was reinforced by this trial.  And it is an excellent message for cops to hear.

[billvon 2,379]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

The line is already forming of those who would jump to the conclusion that the officer was wrong.  He might be wrong.  I don't know.  The video seems to show the girl with a knife.  However, NBA star LeBron didn't waste any time.

From what little I know of this incident, the cop did not murder anyone.  He may have made an error in judgment; if he had a taser that would have been a better choice.  But if he did not, there wasn't really any other way to stop the woman from knifing the other woman, and that's the sort of thing that it is the police's job to stop.

I agree with James - he should be held accountable and investigated.  If he had a taser and did not use it, then anything from retraining to firing might be appropriate.  If he did not have a taser, then this may well have been a defensible call on the part of the cop.