More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

This whole thing revolves around the fact that the nation is indeed undergoing demographic changes.The problem comes when people start seeing that as a problem. It isn’t a problem at all.

Hi Ken,

I was thinking about just what Bill writes in his OP the other day.  I concluded that it is very possible that this country is headed for another Civil War.  IMO it will not be state vs state, but brother vs brother.  It could easily become open warfare in the streets.  No police dep't. is populated to stop such a problem.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 1,904]

21 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

I was thinking about just what Bill writes in his OP the other day.  I concluded that it is very possible that this country is headed for another Civil War.  IMO it will not be state vs state, but brother vs brother.  It could easily become open warfare in the streets.  No police dep't. is populated to stop such a problem.

Jerry Baumchen

That is what Ron calls SHTF. I’m not a believer.

[billvon 2,394]

57 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The last group that had a legitimate complaint about being invaded by aliens was the native population. No other group has ever lost anything to immigration in North America.

Well, whites are about to lose their majority.  The idea that they could someday be treated as a minority is terrifying to them - because they remember how THEY treated minorities.  So they feel they will lose something very important to them.

 

[gowlerk 1,904]

42 minutes ago, billvon said:

Well, whites are about to lose their majority.  The idea that they could someday be treated as a minority is terrifying to them - because they remember how THEY treated minorities.  So they feel they will lose something very important to them.

 

I agree that that feeling is out there. But the reality is that even as a minority they will be, I should  say we will be a privileged minority for a very long time

[jakee 1,254]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:16 PM, metalslug said:

Right wing, eh?  The 'manifesto' of the Buffalo shooter is left of center. I could list citations and quotes but I'm sure you'll find the relevant info. Which shooting was before that one? Could it have been Frank James?  Was his politics left or right ? ...

It's really very sad that you would take this view for partisan reasons. 

The Buffalo shooter admits straight up that a lot of what he was writing and saying was for 'memes and shitposting' so really almost any part of it could be true or untrue, and it certainly contains deliberate attempts to feed the press a false narrative. The only thing we can really judge to be true is what is supported by his actions. Did he really specifically and intentionally kill a bunch of black people because he was anti-corporatist? No. Did he kill them because he didn't like conservatism? No. Did he kill them because the media is full of Jews? No, but that's edging closer.

He killed a bunch of black people because he was a racist who was incenced by racist rhetoric with a strong focus on replacement theory. That's really the only bit of the manifesto we know is true. He was really, really into replacement theory which is not only a right wing talking point, it is very specifically a Republican talking point. It is pushed by Republican politicians and Republican media commentators to get people fired up against the Democrat party and their policies. Well, this guy was fired up.

Edited May 21, 2022 by jakee

[mistercwood 287]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

He killed a bunch of black people because he was a racist who was incenced by racist rhetoric with a strong focus on replacement theory. That's really the only bit of the manifesto we know is true. He was really, really into replacement theory which is not only a right wing talking point, it is very specifically a Republican talking point. It is pushed by Republican politicians and Republican media commentators to get people fired up against the Democrat party and their policies. Well, this guy was fired up.

Republicans:

Edited May 22, 2022 by mistercwood
Clarity

[gowlerk 1,904]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

He killed a bunch of black people because he was a racist who was incenced by racist rhetoric with a strong focus on replacement theory.

Usually these twisted young men do this sort of thing because someone else did and they thought they could start a race war if only enough others did as well. Inspire and be inspired. 

[metalslug 31]

8 hours ago, jakee said:

It's really very sad that you would take this view for partisan reasons. 

The Buffalo shooter admits straight up that a lot of what he was writing and saying was for 'memes and shitposting' so really almost any part of it could be true or untrue, and it certainly contains deliberate attempts to feed the press a false narrative. The only thing we can really judge to be true is what is supported by his actions. Did he really specifically and intentionally kill a bunch of black people because he was anti-corporatist? No. Did he kill them because he didn't like conservatism? No. Did he kill them because the media is full of Jews? No, but that's edging closer.

He killed a bunch of black people because he was a racist who was incenced by racist rhetoric with a strong focus on replacement theory. That's really the only bit of the manifesto we know is true. He was really, really into replacement theory which is not only a right wing talking point, it is very specifically a Republican talking point. It is pushed by Republican politicians and Republican media commentators to get people fired up against the Democrat party and their policies. Well, this guy was fired up.

My comment would never even have been made if it were not for bill's partisan lie of "Right wing extremists, making America great again, one shooting at at time." as though to discount that left-wing (extremist) shootings also exist.

I don't disagree with much of what you have written there, but I'd still maintain that the 'replacement theory' in mainstream Republican discussion is politically orientated and not specifically a race issue which makes it different from Le Grand Remplacement as endorsed by extremists from which the term was borrowed. The left chooses to conflate them. The US is not importing black people, the current 'replacement' influx are largely Hispanics, who were not targeted in this attack. Consider a hypothetical geography in which the USA shared a border with, for example, Russia or some 'right-leaning' nation and allowed swathes to enter illegally and eventually apply for citizenship. You don't suppose the D's would have something to say about that? ..and might feel even further incensed if the R's accused them of  xenophobia (or worse) if they did ?    The shooter had self-identified as being left of center and, whether he is or not, it is somewhat curious that the terminology of self-identification is something the lefties here are not endorsing as gospel, which they are happy to do in other threads.

Edited May 22, 2022 by metalslug

[mistercwood 287]

3 hours ago, metalslug said:

I don't disagree with much of what you have written there, but I'd still maintain that the 'replacement theory' in mainstream Republican discussion is politically orientated and not specifically a race issue which makes it different from Le Grand Remplacement as endorsed by extremists from which the term was borrowed. The left chooses to conflate them.

No, the left just recognises a dog-whistle when they see one. I mean, it's been more of a dog-siren at this point, so I can only presume that those who can't see it for what it is, simply don't want to.

The theory is about white people being replaced by non-whites - just because you're not explicitly bringing in black people anymore doesn't mean that an adherent of the theory wouldn't still consider them a perfectly valid target.

3 hours ago, metalslug said:

The shooter had self-identified as being left of center and, whether he is or not, it is somewhat curious that the terminology of self-identification is something the lefties here are not endorsing as gospel, which they are happy to do in other threads.

Nowhere in his actions or the rest of his manifesto does he show traits of being leftist. His self-identification is painfully transparent trolling and you should honestly know better than to fall for it.

[jakee 1,254]

5 hours ago, metalslug said:

I don't disagree with much of what you have written there, but I'd still maintain that the 'replacement theory' in mainstream Republican discussion is politically orientated and not specifically a race issue which makes it different from Le Grand Remplacement as endorsed by extremists from which the term was borrowed. The left chooses to conflate them.

You have to believe that otherwise you’d have to do some uncomfortable reassessment of the right wing politics you support. It’s ridiculous to suggest that Republican replacement theory isn’t racist. It’s obviously untrue to say that when Republican commentators and politicians say ‘they’re trying to replace you with more obedient voters’ they’re not playing up a racist tripe that minorities are more easily led.

5 hours ago, metalslug said:

Consider a hypothetical geography in which the USA shared a border with, for example, Russia or some 'right-leaning' nation and allowed swathes to enter illegally and eventually apply for citizenship. 

Mexico has had left and right wing presidents in the past 20 years the same way the US has. Also if there was mass immigration from a right wing authoritarian country like Russia I wouldn’t assume it was people happy with the Russian regime who were leaving.

5 hours ago, metalslug said:

The shooter had self-identified as being left of center and, whether he is or not, it is somewhat curious that the terminology of self-identification is something the lefties here are not endorsing as gospel, which they are happy to do in other threads.

Of course we’re not taking it as gospel, because the shooter also self-identified as a liar and a troll. I literally just said that, so the fact you still find it somewhat curious is  completely bizarre.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

11 hours ago, metalslug said:

...The shooter had self-identified as being left of center and, whether he is or not, it is somewhat curious that the terminology of self-identification is something the lefties here are not endorsing as gospel, which they are happy to do in other threads.

The guy was a white supremacist.
He targeted and murdered black people.

That's not a trait of the 'lefties'.

"Self identification" isn't 'gospel'.
Its an expression of behavior.

If a biological male wishes to 'self identify' as a female, fine.

If a biological male wishes to pretend to 'self identify' as a female in order to access female-only areas and commit sexual assaults, that' NOT fine.

In any case, that 'self identification' only takes a person so far.
Before any serious gender reassignment action can take place, the person needs to be examined and evaluated by professionals to ensure that person is really experiencing gender dysphoria. 

[billvon 2,394]

12 hours ago, metalslug said:

My comment would never even have been made if it were not for bill's partisan lie of "Right wing extremists, making America great again, one shooting at at time." as though to discount that left-wing (extremist) shootings also exist.

Of course they exist.  But as you demonstrated by asking about recent shootings, most of them are right wing.  In fact, three out the the last five were right wing, and two out of the last five were based on fulfilling a right wing agenda.  None were promoting a left wing agenda.

Quote

 'replacement theory' in mainstream Republican discussion is politically orientated and not specifically a race issue 

Replacement theory is the theory that, through political machinations, non-white immigrants are being brought into the US en masse to replace the white majority.   It's pretty much the definition of 'a race issue.'

You can have your own opinions; that's fine.  You don't get to redefine words to make your arguments successful.

Quote

Consider a hypothetical geography in which the USA shared a border with, for example, Russia or some 'right-leaning' nation and allowed swathes to enter illegally and eventually apply for citizenship. You don't suppose the D's would have something to say about that?

Of course they would, and they'd have some other name for it - since it would not be based on race. 

Quote

The shooter had self-identified as being left of center

Yep.  And you are on record for your disdain for anyone who relies on self-identification as opposed to real, definable quanitites.  Gotta make up your mind. 

[normiss 622]

https://www.al.com/news/2022/05/alabama-man-who-killed-wife-two-teen-daughters-and-himself-struggled-with-mental-instability-money-problems-mayor-says.html

 

Wow. I'm stunned.

[normiss 622]

https://www.wbrc.com/2022/05/22/4-dead-following-murder-suicide-st-clair-county/?fbclid=IwAR3Nn5NQm0ccN5ZD5edIXug4b_tnm-7J3k9stsQjrJrAgqV8n88CER3ri_E

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

5 hours ago, normiss said:

https://www.al.com/news/2022/05/alabama-man-who-killed-wife-two-teen-daughters-and-himself-struggled-with-mental-instability-money-problems-mayor-says.html

 

Wow. I'm stunned.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Is that who I think it is?

Edit to add:
Just saw the post in Blue Skies.
Yes, it was Billy.

Edited May 23, 2022 by wolfriverjoe

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

On 5/16/2022 at 6:15 AM, BillyVance said:

I didn't have any guns until my girls became teenagers, and we talked about it with them. They're fine with having the guns in the house. They don't have any interest in them now but understand what they're for. 

And there are plenty of examples of homeowners legally shooting burglars and home invasion suspects. 

 

On 5/16/2022 at 10:21 AM, billvon said:

"Guns at home were four times more likely to cause an accidental shooting, seven times more likely to be used in assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide than they were to be used for self-defense."

It's like getting a wild orangutan and keeping it as a pet for home protection.  I mean, no one is going to break into a house with a wild orangutan in it - right?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/

Given what happened, this is more than just a little bit prophetic.

[wmw999 2,120]

It’s appalling. I’m so sorry to hear it.

Wendy P. 

[gowlerk 1,904]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Jesus fucking Christ.

Is that who I think it is?

Edit to add:
Just saw the post in Blue Skies.
Yes, it was Billy.

I have no words. 

[mistercwood 287]

What in the actual fuck. The last couple of pages of the thread are just depressing now.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

7 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

What in the actual fuck. The last couple of pages of the thread are just depressing now.

Yes. It's so easy to observe that it wasn't seen coming. It causes me to think that there is more behind everyone here on SC that I interact with than I can ever truly know. I need to think about that truth.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

6 hours ago, mistercwood said:

What in the actual fuck. The last couple of pages of the thread are just depressing now.

Why just the last couple of pages?

There's 51 pages of death and injury. 

Those are/were people who had families and friends. 

I understand that it 'hits home' harder when it's someone you actually know (I never met Billy in person, but you know what I mean).
 

[lippy 771]

10 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Yes. It's so easy to observe that it wasn't seen coming. It causes me to think that there is more behind everyone here on SC that I interact with than I can ever truly know. I need to think about that truth.

True skydiver takeaway….try to take a lesson from the tragedy, and a damn good lesson we could all do to relearn on occasion 

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

11 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Yes. It's so easy to observe that it wasn't seen coming. It causes me to think that there is more behind everyone here on SC that I interact with than I can ever truly know. I need to think about that truth.

Hi Joe,

I am definitely no expert.  However, I believe that we all have a very dark location within our psyche'.  The vast majority of us never get to that point where it surfaces.  We control it without ever knowing that we are doing so.

I have always thought his avatar was very strange; and not in fun.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I've read about too many of these things over the course of my lifetime.  I simply cannot understand killing one's family; esp the children.  If you want to kill YOURSELF, go ahead.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

5 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

I am definitely no expert.  However, I believe that we all have a very dark location within our psyche'.  The vast majority of us never get to that point where it surfaces.  We control it without ever knowing that we are doing so.

I have always thought his avatar was very strange; and not in fun.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I've read about too many of these things over the course of my lifetime.  I simply cannot understand killing one's family; esp the children.  If you want to kill YOURSELF, go ahead.

Who could understand doing such a thing? I think the mental illness trope is a crutch we use to steady ourselves not to explain away horrendous actions committed by others. We need to believe such things cannot be hiding away in ourselves; that we all might be ticking time bombs or capable of being somehow triggered into committing the unimaginable worst humans can do to each other.

[Phil1111 910]

48 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

I am definitely no expert.  However, I believe that we all have a very dark location within our psyche'.  The vast majority of us never get to that point where it surfaces.  We control it without ever knowing that we are doing so.

I have always thought his avatar was very strange; and not in fun.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I've read about too many of these things over the course of my lifetime.  I simply cannot understand killing one's family; esp the children.  If you want to kill YOURSELF, go ahead.

IMO the "very dark location" is where you harm others. When I was about 20 I had to go over to a house to inspect it. The homeowner was supposed to be home. I rang the doorbell then stood and waited on the doorstep. I could see through the windows on either side of the door through to the back of the house. After a minute or so i rang the doorbell a couple more times.

Then I noticed a fully clothed woman crawling across the floor, on her belly, pushing a baby in front of her. It took her about a minute to cross the 20 feet or so that I could see. I had no clue what was going on. But after a minute or so I rang the doorbell again At which point the lights went out in the house. After a total of 20 minutes or so i gave up and contacted the party that had dispatched me to the home.

Evidently the lady was in the process of having a "nervous breakdown" during that week. My point is we have no idea of the burdens that some carry. We never are so rude as to ask somebody with burns all over their face. WTF their story is. We have some idea what shell shock is for soldiers. But everything in between is somewhat ignored.