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kallend

More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

I don’t know about Jerry’s, but mine is that when you have a direct conflict between the well being of two beings (or people), how do you choose? It sounds like you automatically choose against the woman, robbing her of the ability to determine her future. Yes, the fetus’s future is dependent on her, but who gets to choose?

I realize that as the only woman in this discussion (albeit no longer bearing childre) I have nothing important to say, but I still feel compelled to say it  

Wendy P. 

Hi Wendy,

Re:  I realize that as the only woman in this discussion . . . I have nothing important to say

IMO you could not be more incorrect.  I wish we more women in this discussion.

SkyMama, where are you?

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I say that I am pro-abortion because I am of the belief that the world is severely over-populated.

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48 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Alright, lets just get to the heart of it. At what point do you consider a human life to begin and to become sacrosanct? Is it when sperm fertilizes egg or some other point. What point?

What's the point?

Why is "her body/her choice" not enough for you?

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8 hours ago, Coreece said:

I just never heard anyone identify as "pro-abortion" before like Jerry did.  People that I've talked with here identified as pro-choice, but anti-abortion - meaning abortion is an option but priority is given to prevention, education and a healthier environment for women in general.

I've not heard that usage, either, other than from pro-life people trying to make a point. It could have been a mis-speak etc.

But Jerry clarified his usage, I just didn't get that far, because of the whole "quoting puts you at the bottom" thing.

Wendy P.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, gowlerk said:
8 hours ago, Coreece said:

What's the point?

Why is "her body/her choice" not enough for you?

The point is to pin you down on just how much control you think your vision of society needs to exert.

You lost that match the second you deliberately and selectively removed the words "her body/her choice" from my OP starting all this.  Do those words mean something different in Lalaland?

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Unless you can answer what is your point?

I explained my point like 3 times already.

Edited by Coreece

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34 minutes ago, Coreece said:

You lost that match the second you deliberately and selectively removed the words "her body/her choice" from my OP starting all this.  Do those words mean something different in Lalaland?

The OP in this thread is from Dr. John and references a mass shooting in CO. I have no idea what post you are referencing and I don't care. Like almost all "pro-lifers" what you are really about is control, not the sanctity of life. The only anti-abortion view point worthy of any respect is the one with no compromise. It is still wrong, but at least it is not hypocritical. 

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13 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Like almost all "pro-lifers" what you are really about is control, not the sanctity of life. The only anti-abortion view point worthy of any respect is the one with no compromise. It is still wrong, but at least it is not hypocritical. 

As another pro-choicer, I actually disagree with this assessment. Yeah, some people are all about control, but others (like Bigun, who is pro-life personally, and pro-choice politically) are not. And I don't accept the hard delineation that you get to choose who's really pro-life, just as pro-choice doesn't actually mean that someone is OK with "aborting" a baby that's 8 1/2 months mature in the womb, although there are pro-life people who do say that late-term abortion is what pro-choice people actually like.

Pro-life and pro-choice are different axes; some pro-life people seem to want them to be the same axes, and that generally is about control.

Wendy P.

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3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:
44 minutes ago, Coreece said:

You lost that match the second you deliberately and selectively removed the words "her body/her choice" from my OP starting all this.  Do those words mean something different in Lalaland?

The OP in this thread is from Dr. John and references a mass shooting in CO. I have no idea what post you are referencing and I don't care.

You don't remember my post where you deliberately removed the words "her body/her choice?" 

5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Like almost all "pro-lifers" what you are really about is control, not the sanctity of life.

Again, what part of her body/her choice don't you understand?

26 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The only anti-abortion view point worthy of any respect is the one with no compromise. It is still wrong, but at least it is not hypocritical. 

But you said that most of the world is "anti-abortion AND pro-choice"

And if you think that the only respectable position is a full out ban with no compromise, then why don't you respect it?

 

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10 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

OK with "aborting" a baby that's 8 1/2 months mature in the womb, although there are pro-life people who do say that late-term abortion is what pro-choice people actually like.

But no one does that and no Dr. would unless there was a reason. It is a red herring. I prefer a hard line drawn in the sand. 

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2 minutes ago, Coreece said:

But you said that most of the world is "anti-abortion AND pro-choice"

Yes, it is okay to dislike abortion. And that is what I mean by being anti-abortion. There seems to be this idea among some that women like having abortions or find it a convenient way to manage their fertility. Pro-choice means that I think no government has any business deciding the matter. And it is working out just fine in Canada where the abortion rate per 1000 women is lower than in your nation where several states do as much as possible to restrict it. Just leave people alone. There is a name for that, we call it "freedom".

 

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10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:
13 minutes ago, Coreece said:

You don't remember my post where you deliberately removed the words "her body/her choice?"

No. And I don't "remove words". I quote the part of the post that I am responding to.

Fine, you chose not to quote the words "her body/her choice" from the post you were responding to, and then accuse me of wanting to remove that right.

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6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, it is okay to dislike abortion.

Yes, I've made that part perfectly clear.

7 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Pro-choice means that I think no government has any business deciding the matter.

Again, what part of "her body/her choice" don't you understand?

 

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(edited)
5 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Fine, you chose not to quote the words "her body/her choice" from the post you were responding to, and then accuse me of wanting to remove that right.

If you believe that a woman should be able to make her own choice than you have somehow left me with the impression that you think it should be restricted. Please clarify. In any case even if you do believe that there are plenty who don't that you seem to support.

Edited by gowlerk

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6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

If you believe that a woman should be able to make her own choice than you have somehow left me with the impression that you think it should be restricted.

Because all you really care about is repeating the same old 30-year old boilerplate bullshit about how all pro-lifers are misogynistic control freaks and how republicans hate children, and then pinning it all on christians, religion, evangelicals or whoever it is you're hating on that day.

Go bitch at secular pro-life, because it's THEIR argument and arguments like it that will be responsible for any change in the status quo. 

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2 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Because all you really care about is repeating the same old 30-year old boilerplate bullshit about how all pro-lifers are misogynistic control freaks and how republicans hate children, and then pinning it all on christians, religion, evangelicals or whoever it is you're hating on that day.

Go bitch at secular pro-life, because it's THEIR argument and arguments like it that will be responsible for any change in the status quo. 

So then, nothing is different. You are still angry about the general lack of respect for religion that you feel is owed. And you still confuse the things that different posters here say with each other. I also have a hard time with that. After a while all the conservatives start to sound the same when really the thing most of them share the most is their deep anger.

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 19 minutes ago, gowlerk said:
26 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Because all you really care about is repeating the same old 30-year old boilerplate bullshit about how all pro-lifers are misogynistic control freaks and how republicans hate children, and then pinning it all on christians, religion, evangelicals or whoever it is you're hating on that day.

Go bitch at secular pro-life, because it's THEIR argument and arguments like it that will be responsible for any change in the status quo. 

So then, nothing is different. You are still angry about the general lack of respect for religion that you feel is owed.  And you still confuse the things that different posters here say with each other.

Again, the point was to show how pro-life anti-abortion isn't just a christian issue/concept.  But you keep ignoring that, so you guys can go on about how this is all about controlling women and how republicans "love the fetus but hate the child."  Not once did you address anything I was actually talking about, and deliberately ignored my post about "her body/her choice, while simultaneously suggesting that I want to take that right away from women.

 

40 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

After a while all the conservatives start to sound the same when really the thing most of them share the most is their deep anger.

Again, given your posting history, you really have no business throwing stones.  Besides, if anything, it's frustration of trying to have a conversation with you, but you continually ignoring anything I say on the subject.  It's like if all did was kept telling you repeatedly that all you want to do is control women and take away their rights"

 

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

The only anti-abortion view point worthy of any respect is the one with no compromise. It is still wrong, but at least it is not hypocritical. 

multiple people here including you and me have stated that we're anti-abortion.  Where's the compromise?  That it's a woman's choice to decide?

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1 minute ago, Coreece said:

Where's the compromise?  That it's a woman's choice to decide?

There is no compromise. 

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in Texas, we shall fight in Kansas and Utah, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our principle, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.

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1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

There is no compromise. 

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in Texas, we shall fight in Kansas and Utah, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our principle, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.

You remind me of this guy:

 

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