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kallend

More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

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1 hour ago, yoink said:

This sort of stuff absolutely baffles me - even more then the typical gun insanity. 

I mean, how many guns do you actually need? WHY do you need multiples? I'm pretty certain we send soldiers out with a gun and extra magazines stuck into their gear, not extra guns for each time they run out of ammo. Surely money would be better spent just buying one or two, maintaining them and buying ammo and mags?

It's completely illogical stuff like this that has me convinced gun ownership is an emotional problem, not a legitimate 'I need protection' one.

How many skydives do you need? I realize you can't kill as many people with a skydive as with a gun, but guns are just what some people are in to in this country. Barring a felony conviction or other prohibitive circumstances you are allowed to buy as many as you like depending on some state laws. Are the amount of skydives you have now enough? Not trying to defend this guy but just trying to put it in perspective. Sure, there are people who stockpile guns and ammunition prepping for SHTF. and that is illogical to me as well. If it comes to that I think you've already lost no matter how many guns you have. Sure, there are people who purchase guns with malicious intent. For those people one is too many. But target shooting with all types can be fun as hobby. I used to do it often when I was younger. I'd do it again if I still owned one but I'm just not into it any more.

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7 hours ago, yoink said:

This sort of stuff absolutely baffles me - even more then the typical gun insanity. 

I mean, how many guns do you actually need? WHY do you need multiples? I'm pretty certain we send soldiers out with a gun and extra magazines stuck into their gear, not extra guns for each time they run out of ammo. Surely money would be better spent just buying one or two, maintaining them and buying ammo and mags?

It's completely illogical stuff like this that has me convinced gun ownership is an emotional problem, not a legitimate 'I need protection' one.

He saw the movie "Commando" once. Going with the Arnie technique - 57 guns with one bullet in each.

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On 7/2/2021 at 6:45 PM, brenthutch said:

“These buyers are white, Black, Asian and Latino and come from all political beliefs. And they're being driven by uncertainty, fear and a need to feel safe.

Partially right, but they are mainly older white men.

.... Fears of Congress passing new gun control legislation in the wake of a rash of mass shootings since March are also adding fuel to the buying craze, industry insiders said.”

Correct. Buy now before possible laws restoring sanity are enacted.

The rest of your statements are false or misleading as usual.

On 7/2/2021 at 9:46 PM, billvon said:

Yep.  And the gun industry knows this - and pushes the "Dems will GRAB YOUR GUNS so BUY NOW!" narrative as hard as they can.  The more fear they generate, the more money they make.  Ruger was even donating $1 for every gun they sold to the NRA for a while, and the NRA knew very well how to sell guns - make people afraid.

It's odd that so many people claim to be above all this fear - but fall prey to the merchandising of fear so readily.

Yes and even Ruger knew that more than a $1 was a waste of money because of NRA corruption.

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8 hours ago, billvon said:

Liberals are against guns in the minds of conservatives, so buying 34 guns is a big "fuck you" to liberals.  For many conservatives it really goes no further than that.

Guns = shoes, now at least half the population will understand 

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9 hours ago, yoink said:

You’ve made me go and count my hammers…. 
 

I may need to downsize.

I actually have stockpiled hammers xD. I make toolkits for our local refugee resettlement committee and the abuse shelter (independence when you get your own place). So I had to buy 100 to get a good deal, and I still have about 60 left. They’ll be part of my son’s inheritance 

Wendy P. 

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(edited)

Here are some suggestions about factors contributing to the high rate of violence with firearms in the US compared to other first-world countries, based on my personal experience having lived in Canada for ~30 years, in Europe for a few years, and in the US for ~30 years.

1.  Although there are angry people everywhere, there seem to be a lot more of them in the US.  This includes everything from people who feel unfairly treated by the world to people who have learned that they can often intimidate other people and so get what they want by being hyper aggressive and threatening.  Such people rarely if ever recognize that they contribute to their own problems in various ways and instead blame everyone else.  Related to this is the fact that US culture is more competitive in a sink-or-swim sort of way, with almost all the emphasis on "you're on your own" and much less on "you're part of a society and we all need to look out for one another".

2. Economic disparities are larger in the US than in comparable first-world countries, with more barriers to moving out of the economic class to which you are born.  The latter seems paradoxical in a country that prides itself on a culture that claims that anyone can get ahead by nothing more than hard work.  However even a small contact with the "justice system" can create lifelong barriers to advancement, and such contact is much more likely for the poor, and for non-whites (although poor white people can be impacted for sure).  As an example, in Georgia almost any felony conviction, which could be for possession of a tiny amount of pot, or (until recently) theft of anything worth more than $50, leads automatically to a lifetime ban on qualifying for a state license for anything.  This means you can never work in nearly 80 professions state-licensed professions, including becoming a barber, cosmetologist, electrical contractor, plumber, conditioned air contractor, auctioneer, utility contractor, registered trade sanitarian, and scrap metal processor, among others (https://georgiaopportunity.org/access-professional-licenses-benefit-returning-citizens/). BTW this is the sort of thing that is included in "critical race theory").  These issues contribute to point 1.

3. The US is more tribal than any other developed country I have lived in.  People tend to view members of other tribes with suspicion at best, and open hostility at worst.  Members of other tribes are often seen as not fully human, and as undeserving of equal treatment under the law.  Successful members of "other tribes" are often assumed to have gained their success unfairly (government handouts, affirmative action, white privilege, etc) rather than by honest effort.  This contributes to point 1, and reduces "others" to "not really American" or "not fully human".

4.  Although the US has laws against violent behavior, there is more acceptance of the idea that violence is sometimes necessary.  American culture tends to celebrate the "outlaw", be it the John Wayne-style gunslinger or the hip-hop gangster.  Cold-blooded killers who murdered numerous innocent people become folk heroes (Billy the Kid, Bonny & Clyde, etc).  Although few would recommend using violence as the first resort to get your way, many quietly accept that sometimes you "just have to stand up and do what you have to do".  We see this strongly in "stand your ground" laws that place "standing up and not allowing yourself to be pushed around" over retreating (even when it would be easy to avoid violence), even if the result is people being killed or maimed.  The US entertainment industry is largely built around the idea that violence is sometimes the best response (probably because violence is more exciting and makes for more interesting story lines than negotiation and diplomacy).  Also the US is much more militaristic than other developed countries, which (rightly or wrongly) supports the notion that violence is sometimes (or often) an appropriate way to respond to a challenge.

5.  Firearms are easily accessible.  Even if you are legally prohibited and so can't buy from a licensed dealer, you can easily get whatever you want through a private sale.

Firearms are easily accessible in other countries.  You can buy a semi-automatic rifle (but not a handgun) for hunting in Canada.  So why is crime involving firearms less common by a wide margin in other countries?  I suggest it's the combination of points 1-4, and no doubt others.  How can this be fixed?  I have no idea, certainly not in the short term.  Perhaps that is why gun control is so attractive, it seems to be more "do-able" than fixing all the other things that lead to a relatively large population of angry people who can justify to themselves that violence is sometimes necessary, and anyway all those other people aren't really people, or Americans, or whatever.

 

Don

Edited by GeorgiaDon
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3 hours ago, GeorgiaDon said:

Here are some suggestions about factors contributing to the high rate of violence with firearms in the US compared to other first-world countries,...

Don

I would add that Americans distrust their government more than other western countries. They distrust the services their government provides and their motivations more often. The US military exempted.

Along with that distrust is a lack of trust of other citizens. Of the bond of civil society. This leads in part to the whole SHTF society is razor thin mentality. Of me, my Colt against everyone else.

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23 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

I would add that Americans distrust their government more than other western countries. They distrust the services their government provides and their motivations more often. The US military exempted.

Along with that distrust is a lack of trust of other citizens. Of the bond of civil society. This leads in part to the whole SHTF society is razor thin mentality. Of me, my Colt against everyone else.

Absolutely.  A lot of this falls under what I called "tribalism".  Also there is the celebration of individualism to the extent that it is seen (in some circles) as a sign of weakness to even acknowledge that one receives any benefit from living in a wealthy developed society.  Many people take all the societal infrastructure for granted and assume that they achieved everything in their life alone, unassisted by anyone, and everyone around them is trying to take things away from them.

Don

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On 7/6/2021 at 4:49 PM, GeorgiaDon said:

 

Heard an interesting discussion yesterday by a black Chicago (i think) alderman. I was driving and didn't get all the details.

He had plenty to say about Mayor Lightfoot, none of it was good. A clip from a recent press conference was played where Lightfoot was complaining that the feds weren't doing anything to curb gun violence. He asked why Lightfoot was waiting for the feds, and why wasn't she doing anything. He asked why if one policeman makes a mistake there are riots in the street with dozens of protestors but when a kid is killed no one says anything. He stated that there should be protests for more enforcement. He stated, "this is mostly a black problem and it's up to us to stop it." He stated that only 9-12% of gun crimes were solved and again stated that more law enforcement was needed.

An interesting listen and shows that someone is trying.

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And where to these gang bangers get their guns?  Straw purchases, and from states with almost non-existent gun laws like Indiana and Mississippi.   And the gun lobby energetically opposes any tightening of laws to deal with these.

About six in ten “crime guns” seized by Chicago Police originated from gun shops outside of Illinois, according to a 2017 report issued by the department. Crime guns are defined by law enforcement as those that are “illegally possessed, used, or suspected to be used in furtherance of a crime.”

In about 95 percent of cases, the person found in possession of a crime gun is not the original purchaser of the weapon, the report said.

The state requires citizens to have a permit to buy firearms and to report stolen or lost guns. Residents who want to sell their guns privately are also required to solicit a background check from state officials and to submit documentation of the sale.

No such laws exist in neighboring states such as Indiana, making them a target for traffickers seeking to sell weapons on the black market in Chicago.

About 21 percent of guns confiscated by police in Chicago are traced back to gun shops across the border in Indiana, a short drive from the city.

After conducting gun offender surveys and crime analysis, the CPD concluded that “states with lax gun laws like Indiana and Mississippi are a primary target for gang members and their gun trafficker source buyers.”

The CPD’s report identifies a number of specific gun shops in Indiana and the suburbs of Illinois that supply the largest number of guns that end up being seized by police.

A co-owner of one such shop — Midwest Sporting Goods in Lyons, Il. — told The Globe Post there’s little the shop can do to prevent straw purchases.

“Unfortunately, you can’t be a mind reader,” he said. “There’s not a whole lot you can do.”

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Honest question - Why do all these gun control discussions always seem to focus around Chicago?

I’m pretty sure it’s a national problem that will require generalized solutions, not ones cherry picked for a particular locale.

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1 hour ago, yoink said:

Honest question - Why do all these gun control discussions always seem to focus around Chicago?

I’m pretty sure it’s a national problem that will require generalized solutions, not ones cherry picked for a particular locale.

It's an easy target for the ignorant because 12 years ago (pre-Heller) it had the nation's toughest gun laws.  It no longer does, but the folks who keep bringing it up are too ignorant to have figured out that now it actually disproves their claims.

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On 6/27/2021 at 2:36 PM, brenthutch said:

Want to fix the horror of mass shootings? Fix the things that have changed for the worse in the last 50 years. Family Values,  Prayer from Schools, Ten Commandments from court houses, Spanking Kids, Morals, What is socially acceptable,  Confusion on Genders, Left Wing Liberalism, Socialism, ect.

For fuck's sake Brent, if you think that mass shootings are caused by the Ten Commandments not being on display in a courthouse how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?:rofl:

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2 hours ago, jakee said:

For fuck's sake Brent, if you think that mass shootings are caused by the Ten Commandments not being on display in a courthouse how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?:rofl:

Apparently he also thinks that the people who were murdered in the Pulse nightclub mass shooting were the ones to blame.  Perhaps if they weren't gay they wouldn't have needed killing?

But really, I think that post was just his usual trolling, saying outrageous things to get a response.  Pretty sad, really, that anyone needs that sort of validation.

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27 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

But really, I think that post was just his usual trolling, saying outrageous things to get a response.  Pretty sad, really, that anyone needs that sort of validation.

I think that while he obviously didn’t write the thing he presented as his own idea, he didn’t even bother reading it either. Far from the first time he’s demonstrated his complete lack or original thought and it won’t be the last.

But hey, he called it a ‘truth bomb’ so he should really be held to it.

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(edited)

Why does Chicago and other large cities have such a big gun violence problem?  It can’t be access to guns as guns are readily available across the nation. Is it because urban dwellers are inherently more violent than normal people or does living under the control of Democrat politicians just want to make folks want to kill each other?

Edited by brenthutch

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1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Why does Chicago and other large cities have such a big gun violence problem

Recently. More so in the last year. 

Williams, the Northeastern Illinois professor of urban community studies who worked in violence interruption for two decades, says young men reach for guns when they feel powerless and believe they are left with no other options. Often, schools have failed them, parents have failed them and society itself has failed them, he says. Toss in a pandemic and access to weapons, and a bad situation becomes a desperate one.

The release of inmates from the Cook County penal system because of COVID concerns made for an even more toxic blend, Williams believes.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/crains-forum-gun-violence-and-covid-19/gun-violence-and-covid-19

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9 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

 

The release of inmates from the Cook County penal system because of COVID concerns made for an even more toxic blend, Williams believes.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/crains-forum-gun-violence-and-covid-19/gun-violence-and-covid-19

Ad the gun lobby has absolutely guaranteed that such disqualified individuals have no difficulty obtaining firearms via the pipeline from Indiana, Mississippi, etc.

According to the FBI, roughly 60% of guns used in crimes in Illinois were from out of state.  The overwhelming number of those guns flow into Illinois from states that have much less restrictive gun laws.  Most of those out of state guns came from Indiana, which is next to Illinois.  Second place goes to Mississippi and third place goes to Wisconsin.  Indiana has really lax gun laws.  Gun dealers are required to perform a very basic background search while a vendor can sell their “private collection” to anyone at a gun show without any background search whatsoever.  So someone can buy an assault rifle at a Crown Point Indiana gun show without any background search, and drive less than an hour into Chicago.  A 2015 study by the University of Chicago suggested that only 11% of guns involved in crimes in Chicago were purchased through federally licensed gun dealers, which require background searches.  In 2014 the Chicago Police reported that roughly 60% of guns used and recovered from crime scenes between 2009 and 2013 were purchased outside of Illinois.  Exact figures are hard to pin down but it is clear that the vast majority of guns making their way to the streets of Chicago are coming from outside of Illinois.

The significance of these figures is that unless national standards are imposed, there’s no law or amount of regulation in Illinois that is going to stop guns from making their way into Chicago and being used in shootings and murders.  Instead of gun rights activists pointing to Illinois strict gun laws to argue that they don’t work, they should point to states that have lax gun laws as an example of why such stricter laws are needed to stop, or at least slow down, the rising numbers of shootings and murders in Chicago.

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(edited)
4 minutes ago, kallend said:

 So someone can buy an assault rifle at a Crown Point Indiana gun show without any background search, and drive less than an hour into Chicago.  A 2015 study by the University of Chicago suggested that only 11% of guns involved in crimes in Chicago were purchased through federally licensed gun dealers, which require background searches.  In 2014 the Chicago Police reported that roughly 60% of guns used and recovered from crime scenes between 2009 and 2013 were purchased outside of Illinois.  Exact figures are hard to pin down but it is clear that the vast majority of guns making their way to the streets of Chicago are coming from outside of Illinois.

No argument, Professor. Hence, the proposal to include cradle-to-grave ownership registration.  

Edited by BIGUN
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