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kallend

More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

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3 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Help me understand this one. 

Transporting restricted firearms. Process by which legality and level of restriction of firearms is determined. Cities being allowed to ban firearms within their city limits.

I am all for legislation that requires licensing for ownership and rules based on use for sport and hunting purposes.

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3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Transporting restricted firearms. Process by which legality and level of restriction of firearms is determined. Cities being allowed to ban firearms within their city limits.

I am all for legislation that requires licensing for ownership and rules based on use for sport and hunting purposes.

Understood. Thanks. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Distract by throwing race and religion into the equation. SOP for the culture war.

Wendy, you're too late.

 

It is noteworthy that the narrative for the GA shooting was anti-Asian xenophobia and white supremacy.  And in CO it was a Trump supporting, white guy...... uh.... never mind it was an assault rifle. 9_9

Edited by brenthutch

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(edited)
29 minutes ago, NewGuy2005 said:

You'd better hold off on implying he's an Islamic crackpot.  I think we may find otherwise.  

I implied nothing, the fact is that he is a Syrian born Muslim with anger management issues, using a firearm purchased during the Biden gun sales boom.

Edited by brenthutch

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5 hours ago, tonyhays said:

Weird how it's only the US that has such a "mental health" problem

first of all, until anyone cares to look, it isn't a mental health problem, it's a glorification of violence problem amplified by the media.  like it or not (and i very much don't), the media control how we as a population think.  there are individual variances of course, but by and large, it is a pattern.  that pattern is currently geared toward glorification of violence.  i think it may have something to do with needing cannon fodder for the forever wars we seem to need to ensure cheap energy.

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2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

It is noteworthy that the narrative for the GA shooting was anti-Asian xenophobia and white supremacy.  And in CO it was a Trump supporting, white guy...... uh.... never mind it was an assault rifle. 9_9

The narrative is 18 dead in two shootings. IMO the number killed by guns in mass shootings is the narrative. AFAIK the Colorado shooter has not been established as a trump supporter. Anti-Asian? he reportedly frequented those establishments and has religious and sexual conflict psychological issues. Does any fact matter to you or is it all a culture war?

 

41 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I implied nothing, the fact is that he is a Syrian born Muslim with anger management issues, using a firearm purchased during the Biden gun sales boom.

Is the fact that he is a US citizen relevant? Muslim? Or do facts matter? Of which "anger management issues" is the sole comment you've made in this thread with a basis in fact.

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12 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The narrative is 18 dead in two shootings. IMO the number killed by guns in mass shootings is the narrative. AFAIK the Colorado shooter has not been established as a trump supporter. 

No it has been established that he was a Trump critic.  That is why the narrative quickly switched.  BTW it is noteworthy the MSM is not covering the thirty people shot in Chicago over the same period 

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No other industrialized nation has gun violence at anywhere close to US levels. Our rate of firearm homicides is nearly six times Canada’s, nearly 16 times Germany’s and more than 21 times Australia’s. It’s not that the United States has a higher crime rate in general; our rates of property crime are pretty similar to Western Europe’s. But we have a much higher rate of lethal violence.

Americans are estimated to own nearly half of the 857 million civilian-held guns in the world. The United States has 120 civilian firearms per 100 people — i.e., more guns than people. That’s by far the highest rate of any country. 

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19 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

No it has been established that he was a Trump critic.  That is why the narrative quickly switched.  ...

Your evidence of such an establishment?

25 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

... BTW it is noteworthy the MSM is not covering the thirty people shot in Chicago over the same period 

Thats a very powerful argument argument against gun controls!

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3 hours ago, kallend said:

Chicago population 2.71 million

Boulder population 0.11 million

  
Guns per capita 
Wyoming .23

Illinois .01 (in Chicago it would be presumably less because of its strict gun laws)

Gun deaths per 100k

Wyoming 17.4

Chicago 17.52

 

 

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11 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

(in Chicago it would be presumably less because of its strict gun laws)

It's not true that Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the country. At one point, it did. It had banned handguns in the city limits, but a 2008 Supreme Court ruling declared that ban unconstitutional and a 2010 ruling reaffirmed that. 

Here's the kicker - When Chicago had its most strict gun laws, Homicides by Guns were higher. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-history-of-chicago-homicides-htmlstory.html

Again, more gun laws are not the solution - good gun laws are the solution.

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18 minutes ago, kallend said:

Gun murders per 100,000 people (rounded to 1 decimal place)

UNITED STATES  3.4

CANADA 0.6

FRANCE 0.4

SWEDEN 0.4

ITALY 0.3

SWITZERLAND 0.2

AUSTRALIA 0.1

GERMANY 0.1

SPAIN  0

ENGLAND, WALES 0

JAPAN  0

Do any of those countries enshrine gun ownership as a fundamental right?

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19 hours ago, BIGUN said:

We don't "feel" that way; it's guaranteed in writing.

This is the quote from you that made me call you one of the blind ones. Just like so many others you instinctively reached for the beloved 2nd as an excuse and a comfort. I can see why you are different from many in that you have taken a hard look at the possibility of changing things around the edges. But what really needs to happen is another Amendment, or more likely a strong societal push on the courts and the legislators to change how it is interpreted. A majority of Americans are not willing to work for that goal.

Would you vote to amend the constitution?

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

This is the quote from you that made me call you one of the blind ones. Just like so many others you instinctively reached for the beloved 2nd as an excuse and a comfort.

>>>>> I do not reach for the 2nd Amendment as an excuse or comfort. I reach for the entire constitution as a a founding document that makes this country unique and do not think it should be fucked with.. 

15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I can see why you are different from many in that you have taken a hard look at the possibility of changing things around the edges.

>>>>>> I don't dance around the edges - I go right to the heart of the issue. Stupid ass gun laws that both parties have developed over the last hundred years that are ineffective pieces of legislative feel good fluff, so that both parties can stand in front of their constituents and donors - and without conscious claim victory. 

15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

But what really needs to happen is another Amendment, or more likely a strong societal push on the courts and the legislators to change how it is interpreted. A majority of Americans are not willing to work for that goal.

>>>>> Nor should they have to, because that is never going to happen. 

15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Would you vote to amend the constitution?

No. Amending the constitution is a very slippery and sacred slope.

Edited by BIGUN

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1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

>>>>> I do not reach for the 2nd Amendment as an excuse or comfort. I reach for it as a a founding document that makes this country unique. 

 

1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

No. Amending the constitution is a very slippery and sacred slope.

Yes, and that means that you would rather accept all the gun deaths that to give up your right. And that is the selfishness at the heart of the problem. You are simply unwilling to give up that right. And you think that you can solve the problem without making the sacrifice. And that is blindness. Not even America can have her cake and eat it too.

 

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5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, and that means that you would rather accept all the gun deaths that to give up your right. And that is the selfishness at the heart of the problem. You are simply unwilling to give up that right. And you think that you can solve the problem without making the sacrifice. And that is blindness. Not even America can have her cake and eat it too.

You seem to think you have it all figured out and you don't. We can solve the problem without sacrificing the 2nd Amendment. The 2nd Amendment, Gun Laws and less homicides can co-exist. You are simply stuck on a liberal platform of what is perceived as the solution and pandering for likes in this forum. 

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A. An amendment won't happen in the near term (at least 50 years). It's really a nonstarter. Whether or not I agree with that, it's just plain true. So trying to start with an amendment is like starting with colonizing the sun.

B. I think that moving the interpretation of the 2nd amendment is a third rail right now. And, frankly, I think that people like Bigun are far more likely to know how to begin to effect that than people like me (who are willing to live in states with strict gun laws). Because you don't get to change a big third-rail issue all at once unless you have a dictator and a LOT of force behind them. And we don't. People who already speak a language, and who really identify with the values of someone, are the best suited to get them to understand a rationale that makes sense to them. Simply forcing the issue isn't that different from not telling kids about sex because that means they won't have it.

Wendy P.

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