More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[JoeWeber 2,057]

20 minutes ago, kallend said:

Gun buying is up. Gun seizures are up. Gun arrests are up. Gun injuries are up. Gun deaths are up.

Will Congress eventually get the message?

Sure, loud and clear: vote for gun or ammunition controls and the money and votes will stop. Funny how in our not too distant past we were able to get under control Tommy Guns and others war weapons like Clyde Barrow's sawed off Browning Automatic Rifle with the modified 40 round clip.

[timski 79]

4 hours ago, kallend said:

Gun buying is up. Gun seizures are up. Gun arrests are up. Gun injuries are up. Gun deaths are up.

Will Congress eventually get the message?

It's been said here already, a few more Pelosi type attacks, but this time, stage some guns, or who knows, actually use them in the act... You know, it takes the right people to be directly effected, to effect change. Very American by the way...   

 

Controlling ammo is the smartest thing you've said on the topic of "change".  

[JoeWeber 2,057]

9 minutes ago, timski said:

a few more Pelosi type attacks, but this time, stage some guns,

By whom? The Cops? What exactly are you suggesting?

 

 

[timski 79]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

By whom? The Cops? What exactly are you suggesting?

 

 

It will take gun violence to reach the people on top, you know, the whole close to home theory...

[JoeWeber 2,057]

1 minute ago, timski said:

It will take gun violence to reach the people on top, you know, the whole close to home theory...

I guess, maybe, but you seemed to suggest that a throw down might be the solution. By whom?

[timski 79]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

By whom? The Cops? What exactly are you suggesting?

 

 

I'm not suggesting anything. But if you thought that was above "law makers" and the history of cover up's, well then...! 

 

[wmw999 1,869]

1 hour ago, timski said:

It will take gun violence to reach the people on top, you know, the whole close to home theory...

Like the attack on Steve Scalise? Or Gabby Giffords?

Wendy P. 

[JoeWeber 2,057]

1 hour ago, timski said:

It will take gun violence to reach the people on top, you know, the whole close to home theory...

You mean like Ronald Reagan? Seriously Tim, that's an old and often recycled trope. Try something new. 

[timski 79]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Like the attack on Steve Scalise? Or Gabby Giffords?

Wendy P. 

single targets. Both You and Joe are thinking small time. Although Joe, Ronnie was somebody!

Come on you two, clearly the "problem" is high capacity assault weapon type of MASS shootings... 

Seriously though, this topic is like whipping Mr Ed.   

In the end, the only thing that will CERTAINLY end this issue, is time. (a really long one)

[riggerrob 556]

May I "sarcastically" repeat a suggestion by a black American stand-up comedian?

He suggested making ammunition ridiculously expensive. That might encourage gang-bangers to use their pistol sights. They also might limit the number of bullets fired during any "disagreement." Finally, they might walk up to a shooting victim and demand "You got something of mine" and extract the bullet.

Perhaps if gov'ts imposed a "sin tax" on bullets the same way that they impose "sin taxes" on cigarettes and alcohol ... bullets would be prohibitively expensive for mere citizens.

But it would still take a few decades of rifle range practice before existing stocks of ammo would fall to the "scarce" level. All good gun owners practice every week at the rifle range .. don't they?

On a serious, personal note, I used to own rifles, even a Chinese-made assault rifle (5.56mm) but sold my guns when I could no longer afford to practice at the rifle range on a regular basis.

[JerryBaumchen 965]

Hi folks,

Slowly, but surely, we are making some progress:  "You only need one or two lawsuits to win to transform the whole industry,"

Federal law protects firearms industry from lawsuits. Uvalde parents test limits : NPR

If we can keep up the pressure through these lawsuits, hopefully, we will change this country.  I know it is a slim hope, but it is better than the continual slaughter.

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 995]

1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

On a serious, personal note, I used to own rifles, even a Chinese-made assault rifle (5.56mm) but sold my guns when I could no longer afford to practice at the rifle range on a regular basis.

Norinco?

[wolfriverjoe 1,181]

6 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Slowly, but surely, we are making some progress:  "You only need one or two lawsuits to win to transform the whole industry,"

Federal law protects firearms industry from lawsuits. Uvalde parents test limits : NPR

If we can keep up the pressure through these lawsuits, hopefully, we will change this country.  I know it is a slim hope, but it is better than the continual slaughter.

Jerry Baumchen

Keep in mind that those laws protecting the industry from lawsuits are in place because the anti-gun crowd decided to 'sue the gun industry out of business' back in the 80s & 90s.

They filed a whole bunch of lawsuits. Every one got tossed out. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
But the manufacturers had to spend money to defend them. A lot of money.

The anti gun groups knew perfectly well that their suits had no merit. But they kept filing them in order to drain the manufacturers of money.

I don't like all the deaths, but I like the idea of intentionally filing frivolous lawsuits in order to bankrupt large companies even less.

[JerryBaumchen 965]

18 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Keep in mind that those laws protecting the industry from lawsuits are in place because the anti-gun crowd decided to 'sue the gun industry out of business' back in the 80s & 90s.

They filed a whole bunch of lawsuits. Every one got tossed out. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
But the manufacturers had to spend money to defend them. A lot of money.

The anti gun groups knew perfectly well that their suits had no merit. But they kept filing them in order to drain the manufacturers of money.

I don't like all the deaths, but I like the idea of intentionally filing frivolous lawsuits in order to bankrupt large companies even less.

Hi Joe,

If you were to ask me if I like apples, I would say 'Yes.'  However, I do not like all types of apples.

I feel the same way about this:  but I like the idea of intentionally filing frivolous lawsuits in order to bankrupt large companies even less.

I have no problem with the 'frivolous lawsuits' against the gun mfrs.  After all, it is the American way.

Jerry Baumchen

 

 

[Phil1111 824]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

I have no problem with the 'frivolous lawsuits' against the gun mfrs.  After all, it is the American way.

Jerry Baumchen

Well in the American fashion the gun lobby worked with the GOP to give immunity to gun manufactures.

[kallend 1,490]

7 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I don't like all the deaths, but I like the idea of intentionally filing frivolous lawsuits in order to bankrupt large companies even less.

So protecting profits is more important than saving lives in your mind. 

OK, got it.  

[wolfriverjoe 1,181]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

So protecting profits is more important than saving lives in your mind. 

OK, got it.  

No. 
Not having extremists destroy an entire industry (one that actually IS important to the country) by abuse of the legal system.

Keep in mind that the cops & military need to get their guns from somewhere.

And even if every single gun factory was shut down today, we have over 300 million guns out there. 

Ceasing production won't make the problem 'go away'.

It would just be more 'performance theater.'

[kallend 1,490]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

No. 

Blah blah blah. . . .

Funny how other wealthy nations have managed to keep gun violence to much lower levels.  Don't you EVER question your allegiance to the gun?

[Phil1111 824]

4 hours ago, kallend said:

So protecting profits is more important than saving lives in your mind. 

OK, got it.  

 

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

No. ...
Keep in mind that the cops & military need to get their guns from somewhere.
 

So one red herring.

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

...And even if every single gun factory was shut down today, we have over 300 million guns out there. 

Ceasing production won't make the problem 'go away'.....

But there is:

American Pulverizer Gun Shredder systems utilize our TRS Series Low-Speed High-Torque Shredder

Joe, you understand the issues as does BIGUN yet you have never come up with a real meat on the bones solution.

For about a hundred billion. or 1/8th the annual cost of the US defense budget. Every gun could be bought up and destroyed. I like guns as much as you do, But there are in fact solutions.

What are yours? and no B.S. window dressing around the edges. No 'performance theater.'

[BIGUN 1,026]

3 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Keep in mind that the cops & military need to get their guns from somewhere.

They are issued. Just like in the military. Officers must sign for them. They are accountable not only for their securing the weapons in a proper manner, just like in the military; they are accountable for every discharge. And, if they do not do these things, just like in the military - they can be subject to an Article 15 or court [martial] (civilian style).

3 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And even if every single gun factory was shut down today, we have over 300 million guns out there. 

And, if every one was required to register their guns, ensure they were properly stored, and ammunition were to be signed for by lot number (just like in the military), and the signing party held responsible for their expenditure; then law enforcement would have a much better path to resolving crimes committed with the use of guns.  

A by-product of this would be people maintaining better control of their weapons and ammunition. 

Finally, if the police were to come across a weapon that is unregistered for any reason - it gets confiscated and smelted. Over time, the number of unregistered weapons would diminish. If we had started this after Columbine, some 350,000 children's lives would not have been impacted by gunfire and 379 school shootings would have been lessened.  

A by-product of this would be the ability to take a walk and not fear getting shot.  

But, of course as long as the other 24 states pass constitutional carry, then everyone can walk around like John Fucking Wayne and carry a gun on their hip - making the world a much safer place. /s

[normiss 528]

14 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

They are issued. Just like in the military. Officers must sign for them. They are accountable not only for their securing the weapons in a proper manner, just like in the military; they are accountable for every discharge. And, if they do not do these things, just like in the military - they can be subject to an Article 15 or court [martial] (civilian style).

And, if every one was required to register their guns, ensure they were properly stored, and ammunition were to be signed for by lot number (just like in the military), and the signing party held responsible for their expenditure; then law enforcement would have a much better path to resolving crimes committed with the use of guns.  

A by-product of this would be people maintaining better control of their weapons and ammunition. 

Finally, if the police were to come across a weapon that is unregistered for any reason - it gets confiscated and smelted. Over time, the number of unregistered weapons would diminish. If we had started this after Columbine, some 350,000 children's lives would not have been impacted by gunfire and 379 school shootings would have been lessened.  

A by-product of this would be the ability to take a walk and not fear getting shot.  

But, of course as long as the other 24 states pass constitutional carry, then everyone can walk around like John Fucking Wayne and carry a gun on their hip - making the world a much safer place. /s

We ALWAYS had to turn in our personal weapons to the armory on base when returning to base.

Safely stored and guarded.

On nuclear capable bases even.

I NEVER saw any complaints. I never understood the guys that completely dismissed this level of safety once they became civilians.

 

That time we had to take a Marine gate guard down though. All because of a hateful racist comment as he waved us through. Damn.

[wolfriverjoe 1,181]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Funny how other wealthy nations have managed to keep gun violence to much lower levels.  Don't you EVER question your allegiance to the gun?

Somewhat. I ended my membership with the NRA when they started being Russian puppets and Trump sycophants. 

Those 'other nations' have much stricter rules on gun ownership and possession.
We don't. We don't seem able to enact them.
Even after Sandy Hook, with the Ds in control of both houses & the WH, it didn't go.

I agree that we need a solution. 

I simply don't know one that would work. 

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

 

So one red herring.

But there is:

American Pulverizer Gun Shredder systems utilize our TRS Series Low-Speed High-Torque Shredder

Joe, you understand the issues as does BIGUN yet you have never come up with a real meat on the bones solution.

For about a hundred billion. or 1/8th the annual cost of the US defense budget. Every gun could be bought up and destroyed. I like guns as much as you do, But there are in fact solutions.

What are yours? and no B.S. window dressing around the edges. No 'performance theater.'

I don't have a solution. I've said that more than once.
But I don't see any of the other 'solutions' that have been proposed having any real effect on the situation.

Even reinstating the 90s Assault Weapons Ban would have little to no effect, given how many guns are in circulation.

What was done in Australia would not work here. 
European style laws wouldn't either.

One BIG problem is that passing significant gun control would just about guarantee the Rs would take power. 
Which, in the current climate, would have a pretty good chance of destroying democracy here.

[BIGUN 1,026]

25 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I simply don't know one that would work. 

 

25 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I don't have a solution. I've said that more than once.
But I don't see any of the other 'solutions' that have been proposed having any real effect on the situation.

Have you looked at post #2945 or any of the other posts I've made?

Make. Them. A. Controlled. Item. It's as simple as that.  No harm to the 2nd. No one getting their legal weapons confiscated. A safer U.S.

Why are you making this hard?  

[BIGUN 1,026]

35 minutes ago, normiss said:

On nuclear capable bases even.

I was Nuclear Operations & Intel before reenlisting SF. On our Nuke bases, we could not take our own weapons inside. The MP's guarded the primary, secondary and tertiary gates (and the entire fence line/towers) as part of their physical security requirement. We drew weapons once inside and had to return them at the end of duty. 

[Phil1111 824]

36 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

...What was done in Australia would not work here. 

European style laws wouldn't either....

The more i think about this the more i agree with this. The gun culture is just too embedded in America. Hence more carnage in elementary schools will continue.

37 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

....One BIG problem is that passing significant gun control would just about guarantee the Rs would take power. 

Which, in the current climate, would have a pretty good chance of destroying democracy here.

Disagree. Only 25% of republicans are devoted to a gun vote. With a few democrats, like yourself similarly inclined.

9 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Have you looked at post #2945 or any of the other posts I've made?

Make. Them. A. Controlled. Item. It's as simple as that.  No harm to the 2nd. No one getting their legal weapons confiscated. A safer U.S.

Why are you making this hard?  

I don't think this is the complete answer but its a start.  Mental health,bla,bla, bla, limiting the sale of "assault weapons" to 21 years, etc. Is all window dressing.

To date there has still not been a real US national debate on the issue. Where republicans and democrats really hammer out serious legislation. Hence my reasoning in my first response above. When the UK, NZ Australia, Canada announced serious gun restrictions. There was no rioting in the streets. No governments or political parties suffered defeats on those issues.

Any suggestion that the aforementioned countries don't have hunters or gun lovers is wrong.