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kallend

More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

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2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Sorry Brother but what will heal this nation is the end of Christians getting a pass.

I understand. Please understand there's "many a" Democrat, gun-toting, Christian. As long as we continue to point at who's saying it rather than why we need it _as a nation_  and get both aisles to sit the fuck down and talk with each other and not at each other. Nothing. We been talking about this logically for years now, but our politicians are just fucking inept. Both of ours. 

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Just now, BIGUN said:

I understand. Please understand there's "many a" Democrat, gun-toting, Christian. As long as we continue to point at who's saying it rather than why we need it _as a nation_  and get both aisles to sit the fuck down and talk with each other and not at each other. Nothing. We been talking about this logically for years now, but our politicians are just fucking inept. Both of ours. 

I'll put our morons up against yours any day, thank you. But the thing that is too delicate for some sensibilities to discuss is what motivates our respective morons. For Republicans too often that is their Christian beliefs. Just reality.

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5 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I'm not in favor of another ban. The first one didn't do all that much. 
If a new one is anything like the original one, it won't do much either.

Bans don't work. We need a Gun Owner Responsibility bill across the board. 

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1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

So if someone is being irresponsible do we give them a time out in the corner? Do we take their guns? Is that not a Ban but a Nab? 

C'mon, Joe. You know me better than that. And, you've read all my suggestions including adding ten years with no parole if a weapon is used in the commission of a crime. Which some from your tribe said was a bit much. 

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(edited)
52 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I understand. Please understand there's "many a" Democrat, gun-toting, Christian. As long as we continue to point at who's saying it rather than why we need it _as a nation_  and get both aisles to sit the fuck down and talk with each other and not at each other. Nothing. We been talking about this logically for years now, but our politicians are just fucking inept. Both of ours. 

Hi Keith,

Re:  our politicians are just fucking inept. Both of ours. 

Far too much of a generalization to be taken serious.

With some politicians, yes for both parties; i.e.:

- Dianne Feinstein should have been sent into retirement 20 yrs ago

- Donald Trump should never have been elected President

We both could go on for a very long time.

For me, it is the same way with T's & P's.  For some people, this is very sincere & appreciated.  For too many, it is a vacant gesture.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Re:  get both aisles to sit the fuck down and talk with each other

If only.

PPS)  If anyone thinks that politics frustrates me [ it does ]; well, I just got a Universal Remote to cover all my 'not a lot' electronics; now, that is a frustrating learning curve.  But, I am getting there.  ]:(

 

Edited by JerryBaumchen
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1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

I know what everyone meant, but it was getting close to being mean-spirited with the T's & P's

I used that first and I would have used it no matter the victims. It was not a shot at christians, it was a shot at the hypocrisy of the gun lobby and the politicians they have a mutual support relationship with. The most unusual thing about this event is not the identity of the victims, but that of the shooter.

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Rather than vilifying inanimate objects, why don't we consider who is actually responsible? Going over the authors of the most recent atrocities, they are, without exception, Seriously Fucked Up People.

I know the 'solution' put forth is to constrain everyone to the limitations of the lowest common denominator, but I take exception to the dictatorship of the mediocre.

Perhaps I have been spoiled by living and working with people who can be trusted with lethal service on a mass scale, and so do not aspire to a nerf world.

YMMV

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45 minutes ago, winsor said:

Rather than vilifying inanimate objects, why don't we consider who is actually responsible?

People are responsible. Because they are people and they make mistakes. You can't just predict who will misuse their inanimate objects. I give you Billy Vance as an example. 

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17 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

People are responsible. Because they are people and they make mistakes. You can't just predict who will misuse their inanimate objects. I give you Billy Vance as an example. 

Billy was just one skydiver.  You can't use the example of one fucked-up individual to paint an entire group of people with the same broad br.....Oh, I see what you did there.

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7 hours ago, gowlerk said:

People are responsible. Because they are people and they make mistakes. You can't just predict who will misuse their inanimate objects. I give you Billy Vance as an example. 

Billy's use of a sidearm is no more an indictment of firearms than the fellow in Idaho is an example of why civilians should not own Ka Bars or why ownership of SUVs should be proscribed because of the woman who drove off a cliff with her wife and six children. 

When someone uses skydiving as a way to commit suicide, there are those that consider this 'proof' that skydivers have a death wish.  Arguments to the contrary fall on deaf ears.

I have lived amongst people who cannot be trusted with pointy objects or blunt instruments, and with those who are entirely safe with metric tons of hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen fluoride or WMDs in general.  It's the people that form the basis of the threat.

'Gun violence' is a case in point of the Pareto principle in action. There is a distinct correlation between severely fucked up people and 'gun violence.'

People who are given to using firearms or Ka Bars or SUVs as instruments of violence are unfit to populate a free society.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

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8 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I used that first and I would have used it no matter the victims. It was not a shot at christians, it was a shot at the hypocrisy of the gun lobby and the politicians they have a mutual support relationship with. The most unusual thing about this event is not the identity of the victims, but that of the shooter.

I know what you meant, Ken. As for that of the shooter. The shit show on twitter has begun. 

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11 minutes ago, winsor said:

I have lived amongst people who cannot be trusted with pointy objects or blunt instruments, and with those who are entirely safe with metric tons of hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen fluoride or WMDs in general.  It's the people that form the basis of the threat.

Funnily enough I don’t think anyone is trusted with those things all on their own without comprehensive, multilayered systems of certification, regulation and oversight. 
 

I wonder if there’s some kind of lesson there…

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2 hours ago, winsor said:

Billy's use of a sidearm is no more an indictment of firearms than the fellow in Idaho is an example of why civilians should not own Ka Bars 

 

2 hours ago, winsor said:

I have lived amongst people who cannot be trusted with pointy objects or blunt instruments, and with those who are entirely safe with metric tons of hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen fluoride or WMDs in general.  It's the people that form the basis of the threat.

That is exactly the problem. Those people you lived with who can't be trusted? They are trusted anyway because the good old 2nd says they must be. When everyone is armed some will use their arms and there is no way of predicting who it will be. To get back to the example of Billy not one of us and very likely none of his friends would have predicted what happened.

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In 2022, Guns & Ammo ranked Tennessee as the 12th-best state in the country for gun owners. The state recently allowed residents to carry handguns in public without a permit. State officials are considering lowering the age to carry handguns without a permit from 21 to 18, according to the Associated Press.

The state  does not have a law banning high-capacity magazines or any restrictions on "assault" style weapons.

It's almost as if they WANT events like this to happen.

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11 minutes ago, kallend said:

n 2022, Guns & Ammo ranked Tennessee as the 12th-best state in the country for gun owners. The state recently allowed residents to carry handguns in public without a permit. State officials are considering lowering the age to carry handguns without a permit from 21 to 18, according to the Associated Press.

Yet another state that enacted permit-less carry and had a mass school shooting event in less than a year.  

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3 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Yet another state that enacted permit-less carry and had a mass school shooting event in less than a year.  

While the Nashville shooter had a pistol on her, the primary weapons were military style semi auto rifles (2 of them).

Not sure where the ability to carry a firearm (with or without a permit) is a factor (note: not being snarky, genuinely don't understand what that point is).

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33 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

While the Nashville shooter had a pistol on her, the primary weapons were military style semi auto rifles (2 of them).

Not sure where the ability to carry a firearm (with or without a permit) is a factor (note: not being snarky, genuinely don't understand what that point is).

The point IS: Every state that has enacted permit-less (open carry) has had a mass school shooting in less than a year after it passed.

The point IS: There is NO criteria restricting the use of carrying any specific type of weapon. Once its open carry; you can carry anything, cause ya know its your fuckin right to off children. 

And, before you start the looky looky, ban assault weapons - that is a silly premise. Every weapon is an assault weapon. It's what they were designed to do. Assault. Until America wakes the fuck up and realizes we need owner responsibility that is mandated (because God knows your fucking freedom is more important than a child's life) 

And, the dems will decry the almighty AR-15 or repeal the 2nd which will only raise more fucking money and the reps will blame trans and every fucking thing else until more children are fucking dead.  Rinse. Repeat. 

How many times are we going to let this record skip before we change the tune. That's the fucking point. A complete Gun Owner's Responsibility Bill. Ownership tracking from cradle to grave, weapon education and recurrency, proper storage, 10 years for use of a gun in the commission of a crime (bet domestic violence with a gun would go way down), etc. etc. we can discuss it more with the next fucking school shooting, cause ya know  . . . we'd rather spend more time typing on SC than spending a few minutes writing in the text box to our congressional and senatorial leadership.  

Get it, now? 

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11 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

. . . . .cause ya know  . . . we'd rather spend more time typing on SC than spending a few minutes writing in the text box to our congressional and senatorial leadership.  

Get it, now? 

I can assure you that my congressional leaders do not need to be told.

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19 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

How many times are we going to let this record skip before we change the tune.

I hear your frustration loud and clear. The only real fix is less guns available and in the hands of less people. The problem is that I can see no realistic way of making that happen. As society gets more and more complex with people of marginal mental fitness seeing these horrible events as inspiration they will increase. As is already happening. We have crazies here in Canada as well and we also have mass shootings from time to time. I feel that the main reason we have less of them per capita is simply the larger barriers put up to acquiring the weapons. The US is not full of murderous raging people but the ones that are out there have been empowered to act with relative ease. 

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21 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The only real fix is less guns available and in the hands of less people. The problem is that I can see no realistic way of making that happen.

While I agree that fewer guns is the best, we're not going there anytime soon, so waving our hands and saying "fuckit and fuck Republicans" isn't going to change anything. You can only get to where you want from where you actually are, not from where you'd like to be.

Bigun's proposal makes sense. If nothing else, calling it "responsibility" will get buy-in from some people who see it as a people issue, and not a gun issue -- and what's needed is buy-in for anything to happen.

Call it our 3/5 compromise -- it's better than nothing, and so far nothing is what we have right now. If in 200 years people talk about what chickeshit assholes we were for not taking it farther, that'd be evidence that it went farther, right?

Wendy P.

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Just now, wmw999 said:

While I agree that fewer guns is the best, we're not going there anytime soon, so waving our hands and saying "fuckit and fuck Republicans" isn't going to change anything. You can only get to where you want from where you actually are, not from where you'd like to be.

Bigun's proposal makes sense. If nothing else, calling it "responsibility" will get buy-in from some people who see it as a people issue, and not a gun issue -- and what's needed is buy-in for anything to happen.

Call it our 3/5 compromise -- it's better than nothing, and so far nothing is what we have right now. If in 200 years people talk about what chickeshit assholes we were for not taking it farther, that'd be evidence that it went farther, right?

Wendy P.

 

Just now, BIGUN said:

The point IS: Every state that has enacted permit-less (open carry) has had a mass school shooting in less than a year after it passed.

The point IS: There is NO criteria restricting the use of carrying any specific type of weapon. Once its open carry; you can carry anything, cause ya know its your fuckin right to off children. 

And, before you start the looky looky, ban assault weapons - that is a silly premise. Every weapon is an assault weapon. It's what they were designed to do. Assault. Until America wakes the fuck up and realizes we need owner responsibility that is mandated (because God knows your fucking freedom is more important than a child's life) 

And, the dems will decry the almighty AR-15 or repeal the 2nd which will only raise more fucking money and the reps will blame trans and every fucking thing else until more children are fucking dead.  Rinse. Repeat. 

How many times are we going to let this record skip before we change the tune. That's the fucking point. A complete Gun Owner's Responsibility Bill. Ownership tracking from cradle to grave, weapon education and recurrency, proper storage, 10 years for use of a gun in the commission of a crime (bet domestic violence with a gun would go way down), etc. etc. we can discuss it more with the next fucking school shooting, cause ya know  . . . we'd rather spend more time typing on SC than spending a few minutes writing in the text box to our congressional and senatorial leadership.  

Get it, now? 

We get it, but sadly such a bill would be DOA. The mantra is that responsible gun owners are not the problem. 

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America values guns and death more than it will ever value children's lives.

Thank you to the brave parents who willingly send their innocent children off to be slaughtered for the god of guns.

Fucking insanity. We're failing ourselves and our future. 

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