More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[JoeWeber 2,299]

11 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Just bought the MPR version of it.  Match grade two stage trigger, 5R rifling, full float hand guard, radial port muzzle break, rifle length gas tube, Magpul furniture, Vortex 1x8 LPVO.  Sub MOA tack driver

 

How cool is that? Now'll you'll look all bad ass like another American Hero. Is it approved for use by children?

[Stumpy 256]

You'll fit right in with these chumps 

[SkyDekker 1,121]

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I think anyone killing anyone is wrong

No you don't.

 

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

it is only the left that gives intra-racial homicide a pass

When exactly did you stop beating your wife?

[brenthutch 383]

7 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

No you don't.

 

I should be more specific.  I think murdering anyone is wrong.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi folks,

Add two more to the list:  An Oregon man trying to protect his home from a bear

Oregon man preparing to shoot bear accidentally kills brother, then fatally shoots self, investigation indicates - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 1,121]

On 2/9/2022 at 5:49 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

Add two more to the list:  An Oregon man trying to protect his home from a bear

Oregon man preparing to shoot bear accidentally kills brother, then fatally shoots self, investigation indicates - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

bear spray is a better tool for bear deterrent 99% of the time.

[billeisele 122]

13 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

bear spray is a better tool for bear deterrent 99% of the time.

We definitely need an acceptable citation for that claim.

Please don't try and say that spray deters and guns can kill. Therefore the spray is a better deterrent.

[winsor 186]

19 minutes ago, billeisele said:

We definitely need an acceptable citation for that claim.

Please don't try and say that spray deters and guns can kill. Therefore the spray is a better deterrent.

I recall something to the effect of a guide making recommendations for travel in bear country saying one should wear bells to give bears warning so they could avoid people, and bear strength pepper spray to deter them if the bells didn't work.

Asked how one could tell the difference between black bear and brown bear scat, the response was that brown bear droppings had bells in them and smelled like pepper spray.

[wmw999 2,121]

From From Alien Gear Holsters, spray is better — until it isn’t. It takes a big gun to stop a bear reliably, a long gun, which is impractical. And if you have a gun and bear spray, which are you more likely to use?

As a fairly regular solo hiker and solo backpacker, albeit in the East, predators are generally better avoided than confronted. If there are known to be aggressive bears where you want to go, change your desires — they live there, you’re visiting. The bells some people wear in the west might make you feel like a wimp, but the hikers are the visitors. We also hike, but not backpack, when we’re in the western parks.

If you consider the number of fatal or serious bear attacks per year (664 from 2000-2015, 2-5 per year), it’s not a large risk. Kind of like sharks with scuba diving, don’t do stupid shit and it’s very low on the likely tree  

Wendy P. 

[kallend 1,623]

7 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

From From Alien Gear Holsters, spray is better — until it isn’t. It takes a big gun to stop a bear reliably, a long gun, which is impractical. And if you have a gun and bear spray, which are you more likely to use?

As a fairly regular solo hiker and solo backpacker, albeit in the East, predators are generally better avoided than confronted. If there are known to be aggressive bears where you want to go, change your desires — they live there, you’re visiting. The bells some people wear in the west might make you feel like a wimp, but the hikers are the visitors. We also hike, but not backpack, when we’re in the western parks.

If you consider the number of fatal or serious bear attacks per year (664 from 2000-2015, 2-5 per year), it’s not a large risk. Kind of like sharks with scuba diving, don’t do stupid shit and it’s very low on the likely tree  

Wendy P. 

Falling "killer" coconuts kill more people annually than sharks and bears combined.

 

Citation:  REDACTED.

Edited February 16, 2022 by kallend

[JoeWeber 2,299]

48 minutes ago, billeisele said:

We definitely need an acceptable citation for that claim.

Please don't try and say that spray deters and guns can kill. Therefore the spray is a better deterrent.

For sure Bear Spray isn't sufficient at an insurrection. I'll provide the cite after the 1/6 report comes out.

[Phil1111 910]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Falling "killer" coconuts kill more people annually than sharks and bears combined.

 

Citation:  REDACTED.

A new reason to carry an AR-15 for NRA lovers.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

2 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

A new reason to carry an AR-15 for NRA lovers.

If they make it illegal to shoot them unless they're already falling they'd have a great new sport and we'd kill two coco's with one nut.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

3 hours ago, winsor said:

I recall something to the effect of a guide making recommendations for travel in bear country saying one should wear bells to give bears warning so they could avoid people, and bear strength pepper spray to deter them if the bells didn't work.

Asked how one could tell the difference between black bear and brown bear scat, the response was that brown bear droppings had bells in them and smelled like pepper spray.

No grizzly's in Oregon anymore, only black bears. Most black bears respond pretty well to just a stern talking to, they really don't want to be around people much, unless they have been fed in the past.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

3 hours ago, billeisele said:

We definitely need an acceptable citation for that claim.

Nah, you just need some common sense.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

33 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

No grizzly's in Oregon anymore, only black bears. Most black bears respond pretty well to just a stern talking to, they really don't want to be around people much, unless they have been fed in the past.

That was exactly my experience working in the Oregon Mountains years back. You'd hear them running off but rarely see them.

[winsor 186]

26 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

No grizzly's in Oregon anymore, only black bears. Most black bears respond pretty well to just a stern talking to, they really don't want to be around people much, unless they have been fed in the past.

We encountered a Black bear while camping on the PA/NY border.  The Cub Scouts and their parents were pretty nervous, but I yelled at the bear and told it that it should either show the necessary permits to occupy that camping spot or leave.  It left.

I read an article by someone who went hiking in Alaska for a Big Deal Vacation,  Upon advice from someone experienced to have a firearm, he brought along a .357 Ruger Blackhawk.

Coming across a Caribou carcass in a clearing, he wound up close to it when he noted a Brown bear ambling toward the carcass.

He fired a round in the air to hopefully scare the bear away (hitting it with a .357 would have really pissed it off), which caused it to pause and keep coming.

Concluding that the vacation for which he had saved and planned for a long time was about to be ruined by the bear mauling him, he started to scream at the bear, truly giving it a piece of his mind.

Perhaps the bear concluded that the obviously psychotic animal by the caribou carcass was more trouble than it was worth, but it then wandered off in a different direction.

Having seen Grizzlies in the wild, I am happy to give them wide berth.  Prevailing over an eating machine the size of a Buick is not an adventure to which I look forward.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[BIGUN 1,053]

10 hours ago, billeisele said:

We definitely need an acceptable citation for that claim.

A Special Forces Weapons Sergeant would say, "A bear has ~5x more sense of smell than a bloodhound. Bear spray is a more effective deterrent than a weapon. If one encounters a bear rustling around in the woods with their nose up, laying down a wall of industrial strength pepper spray is going to make them want to protect that mechanism they use for survival and 99.9% of the time, they will hastily leave. Once they charge, it's best to be armed with ,44 or 454 Casull and unload it center of mass." 

Disclaimer: WolfRiverJoe has indicated that it might be beneficial for me to search the Internet for some "basic firearms" information, so you may want to accept the above citation with a grain of salt.   

[winsor 186]

26 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

A Special Forces Weapons Sergeant would say, "A bear has ~5x more sense of smell than a bloodhound. Bear spray is a more effective deterrent than a weapon. If one encounters a bear rustling around in the woods with their nose up, laying down a wall of industrial strength pepper spray is going to make them want to protect that mechanism they use for survival and 99.9% of the time, they will hastily leave. Once they charge, it's best to be armed with ,44 or 454 Casull and unload it center of mass." 

Disclaimer: WolfRiverJoe has indicated that it might be beneficial for me to search the Internet for some "basic firearms" information, so you may want to accept the above citation with a grain of salt.   

Many years back, Black bear remains were found in the woods, of Maine IIRC.

The skull looked odd, and 1 1/4 oz. of #4 shot was then found to have HEALED into its sinuses.

It appears someone had discharged a 12 ga. shotgun into its nose, and the bear lived long enough for the wound to heal.

While getting shot likely ended any potential or active attack, Brown bears reportedly respond to injury by attacking - and Browns are much bigger and tougher than Blacks.

A 12 ga. has roughly twice the stopping power of the vaunted .44 RM, and most people can't shoot a.44 for beans - particularly under pressure.  Think the kid shooting at Jackson and Travolta in "Pulp Fiction."

Even though I've fired thousands of rounds of .44 RM, and can routinely empty a Redhawk on target in rapid fire, I'd want a minimum of a fast firing .45/70 equivalent to stop the attack of a Brown bear.  A .458 SOCOM in an AR platform fits the bill of Cooper's 'thumper," and is about the most wallop an amateur may be able to wield effectively.

When it comes to Charismatic Megafauna, and Browns certainly qualify, my recommendation is to do everything you can to stay off the menu in the first place.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[JoeWeber 2,299]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

Many years back, Black bear remains were found in the woods, of Maine IIRC.

The skull looked odd, and 1 1/4 oz. of #4 shot was then found to have HEALED into its sinuses.

It appears someone had discharged a 12 ga. shotgun into its nose, and the bear lived long enough for the wound to heal.

While getting shot likely ended any potential or active attack, Brown bears reportedly respond to injury by attacking - and Browns are much bigger and tougher than Blacks.

A 12 ga. has roughly twice the stopping power of the vaunted .44 RM, and most people can't shoot a.44 for beans - particularly under pressure.  Think the kid shooting at Jackson and Travolta in "Pulp Fiction."

Even though I've fired thousands of rounds of .44 RM, and can routinely empty a Redhawk on target in rapid fire, I'd want a minimum of a fast firing .45/70 equivalent to stop the attack of a Brown bear.  A .458 SOCOM in an AR platform fits the bill of Cooper's 'thumper," and is about the most wallop an amateur may be able to wield effectively.

When it comes to Charismatic Megafauna, and Browns certainly qualify, my recommendation is to do everything you can to stay off the menu in the first place.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

When I was concerned in Bear country I sported a semi auto with slugs. Wendy's reference cited Brenneke slugs. I have no need to hunt that way but I am going to get a box or two of their Magnum Crush rounds because I still do get into those areas from time to time. Of course, noise first and bear spray second.

[BIGUN 1,053]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Of course, noise first and bear spray second.

Don't run out of ammo.

Don't try to reload when your ass is on the line. 

[metalslug 31]

5 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Don't run out of ammo.

Don't try to reload when your ass is on the line. 

An off-topic tangent; In urban legend a tourist asked an African safari ranger what to do when charged by a lion. The ranger suggested to throw excrement at it. The tourist then asked where to get some if none is close by. "Reach around for some. It'll be there." 

[winsor 186]

5 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Don't run out of ammo.

Don't try to reload when your ass is on the line. 

A classic stopper is a large bore double gun.  No chance of jamming on the follow up shot.

If you ever have to resort to lethal force, make certain that you are very well trained in the use of the particular implement.  A solid hit with a .22 is infinitely better than 6 misses with a .44 - someone reportedly dropped a Kodiak bear with a lucky shot from a 4 3/4" Ruger Mark I (followed the optic nerve to the brain).

Having said that, in another case a seasoned guide was killed by a Kodiak that he had just shot fatally with a .458 WM.  The last thing the bear did was to swat the guide while he was chambering another round.

Having seen Grizzlies in the wild, I am fine with doing everything I can to avoid drawing their attention.  They don't get that big by missing many meals, and I doubt if they'd pass me up for lack of condiments.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[BIGUN 1,053]

The conversation revolved around defending oneself from bear; not going hunting. For self-defense, when I go to Northwest Montana each year; I'm carrying a canister of bear spray and a Desert Eagle .44 in a tanker's holster. You can carry whatever your heart desires.  

[winsor 186]

1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

The conversation revolved around defending oneself from bear; not going hunting. For self-defense, when I go to Northwest Montana each year; I'm carrying a canister of bear spray and a Desert Eagle .44 in a tanker's holster. You can carry whatever your heart desires.  

Understood.  The guide that was killed was with a fishing party, the lady that dropped the bear with the Mk I was checking the mail.

I'm with you on the bear spray, but autoloaders aren't my first choice for dangerous game, and pistols are at the low end of the Taylor KO range.

My go to backup for big and cranky creatures is a Marlin 1895 in .45/70 firing full patch heavy solids.  Going with the philosophy of using common ammo, a T/C Contender 14" in the same caliber works.

If I had to stick to a pistol caliber, I'd use the Redhawk and the M92 in .44 RM with 300 gr. solids over as much 296 as will fit.  With a wheelgun you don't have to rack the slide on a bad primer - just keep pulling the trigger.

 

BSBD,

Winsor