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kallend

More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

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Just now, Phil1111 said:

Just to be clear, do you think the JR-15 would be a good rifle to start a young shooter out with? i.e. their first rifle. I personally started with a .177 air rifle then progressed to single shot shotguns and bolt action .22 rifles.

Criteria: Would I choose it for my kid? 

I'm not familiar with it enough to know. I do like their patented safety (only the parent can unlock the safety).  

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8 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Criteria: Would I choose it for my kid? 

I'm not familiar with it enough to know. I do like their patented safety (only the parent can unlock the safety).  

Fair enough. The safety was described as"The only departure from the AR-15 pattern was the safety knob on the right-hand side of the rifle.  This pill bottle-style safety needs to be pulled out with some force and rotated into the locked position before the rifle can fire.  This puts the adult in control of the gun’s safety function."spacer.png

I'd be turned off by $400 for a polymer upper, polymer lower, 7.5" barrel. But I'm sure there will be buyers. In the end the father, instructor will likely be the determinate as to how safe the teaching and use will be. Not how it looks.

Anti-gun media is having a field day with it. So that will boost sales.

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9 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Criteria: Would I choose it for my kid? 

I'm not familiar with it enough to know. I do like their patented safety (only the parent can unlock the safety).  

Having taken my son shooting a number of times when he was a kid (yes, a .22 rifle), if the AR-15 is the rifle you're the most familiar with, and you treat it as a weapon/tool and not a "get the libs' goat" tool, then it's an entirely appropriate one.

It's the parent's attitude that rules here, much more than the weapon. Too often the AR-15 is used as a symbol of "everything that's wrong with gun culture." And it's easier to transform than some other commonly-available guns, which is problematic.

But those guns are here -- we can't go back to when they weren't, and if there were to be a nationwide gun ban (maybe the entire NRA were taken over by minorities -- that might do it ]:)), there are so many weapons out there that we'd be multiple generations away from being gun-free. Even longer than getting rid of racism.

Wendy P.

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52 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

There were/are laws - how they got thrown out the window is beyond me. 

Lawyers with an agenda, and virtually unlimited money from right-wing supporters.  A while ago I read that there was literally millions left over after all his legal expenses, and some of his lawyers wanted to return the balance to donors and some (especially one who he fired, and who is also a big name pushing the Trump lie) wanted to keep it for themselves.  It's well known that in the US (and I presume elsewhere) there is one law for the rich, another for people in the middle, and yet another for the poor.

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(edited)
23 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

Lawyers with an agenda, and virtually unlimited money from right-wing supporters.  A while ago I read that there was literally millions left over after all his legal expenses, and some of his lawyers wanted to return the balance to donors and some (especially one who he fired, and who is also a big name pushing the Trump lie) wanted to keep it for themselves.  It's well known that in the US (and I presume elsewhere) there is one law for the rich, another for people in the middle, and yet another for the poor.

The overweight lady ain't done singing yet.

"Attorneys representing the estate of Anthony Huber filed the suit Tuesday in Milwaukee. Huber's father, John Huber, named Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth, former Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis, Kenosha Acting Police Chief Eric Larsen, several unnamed Kenosha police officers, as well as the city and county of Kenosha."

"Fallout from what happened on an August 2020 night in Kenosha, Wisconsin is not over. There’s more legal action ahead. Denver attorney Milo Schwab represents two of those who were shot. His clients are the family of Joseph Rosenbaum, one of those who died as well as Gaige Grosskreutz who was wounded "

Edited by Phil1111

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5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Pardon my ignorance. My understanding is that my lever action .22 is not semi-auto. Nor was my bolt action rifle.

The true definition of semi-auto refers to anything with a blowback operation that automatically loads the next cartridge. Technically, anything that does not fire auto is semi. It's a hair splitting discussion.  

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11 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

The true definition of semi-auto refers to anything with a blowback operation that automatically loads the next cartridge. Technically, anything that does not fire auto is semi. It's a hair splitting discussion.  

So unless it is a muzzle loader you are calling it semi-auto? You must have a very sharp razor to split that hair so finely!

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37 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

The true definition of semi-auto refers to anything with a blowback operation that automatically loads the next cartridge. Technically, anything that does not fire auto is semi. It's a hair splitting discussion.  

Hi Keith,

And, IMO that is beneath you.

Jerry Baumchen

 

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Having taken my son shooting a number of times when he was a kid (yes, a .22 rifle), if the AR-15 is the rifle you're the most familiar with, and you treat it as a weapon/tool and not a "get the libs' goat" tool, then it's an entirely appropriate one.

It's the parent's attitude that rules here, much more than the weapon. Too often the AR-15 is used as a symbol of "everything that's wrong with gun culture." And it's easier to transform than some other commonly-available guns, which is problematic.

But those guns are here -- we can't go back to when they weren't, and if there were to be a nationwide gun ban (maybe the entire NRA were taken over by minorities -- that might do it ]:)), there are so many weapons out there that we'd be multiple generations away from being gun-free. Even longer than getting rid of racism.

Wendy P.

Hi Wendy,

I started on an air rifle at about 11 yrs old.  The term 'air rifle' was never used back in the 50's; they were only known as BB guns.

Then, in the summer of '54 I bought a 22 cal. single shot, bolt action Remington.  It was used & I paid $5.00 for it.  The cleaning kit cost me more than the rifle did.

Know one taught me how to shoot anything, I simply taught myself.

Jerry Baumchen

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(edited)
1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

But those guns are here -- we can't go back to when they weren't, and if there were to be a nationwide gun ban (maybe the entire NRA were taken over by minorities -- that might do it ]:)), 

Wendy P.

https://naaga.co/

https://www.pinkpistols.org/about-the-pink-pistols/
like these guys?

Edited by brenthutch

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42 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

So unless it is a muzzle loader you are calling it semi-auto? You must have a very sharp razor to split that hair so finely!

Ken, you can put two weapons experts in the same room and that discussion could go on for hours. No different than any other field of expertise. Now, you're just trying to whip this up into something it's not.  

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1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Wendy,

I started on an air rifle at about 11 yrs old.  The term 'air rifle' was never used back in the 50's; they were only known as BB guns.

Then, in the summer of '54 I bought a 22 cal. single shot, bolt action Remington.  It was used & I paid $5.00 for it.  The cleaning kit cost me more than the rifle did.

Know one taught me how to shoot anything, I simply taught myself.

Jerry Baumchen

Sure, but what was the population of the Earth back then? You probably could have safely pointed it in any direction.

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9 minutes ago, NewGuy2005 said:

What's wrong with "those guys" owning guns?

Wendy suggested if the NRA were to be taken over by minorities the US could enact a gun ban.  She apparently believes that minorities are anti gun.  I attached those two links to disabuse her of that notion.

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2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

The true definition of semi-auto refers to anything with a blowback operation that automatically loads the next cartridge. Technically, anything that does not fire auto is semi. It's a hair splitting discussion.  

Nope. 

Semi auto (also known as 'self loading') is when the action is articulated by the energy of the cartridge that was fired. 
This can be gas operated (where there's a port in the barrel that diverts some of the gas to cycle the bolt) or 'recoil operated', commonly called 'blow back' where the force of the fired cartridge on the bolt face is used to cycle the action.

Full auto is when the mechanism is set up to allow multiple shots to be fired by holding the trigger. Semi is when only one shot fires with each trigger pull.
 

Things like bolt action, lever action, pump action, ect are considered 'repeating' because they can fire more than one shot without reloading, although the operator has to manipulate the operating mechanism to get the next shot ready.
As a side note, malfunctioning semi autos sometimes become 'repeating' when they get to dirty or damaged to function properly.

Then there are single shot guns. 
They have no way to hold more than one* shot at a time.
They can be bolt action, falling block (the old Cavalry rifles that got Custer & his troops killed) or break action (where it 'unfolds' and opens from the middle).
"Old school" muzzle loaders are also single shot, but they are a rather specialized area.

 

This is basic firearms stuff.

Not 'splitting hairs'.

* - Double barreled shotguns (and rifles) are virtually identical to single shots, but having two barrels gives them two shots.

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22 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Sure, but what was the population of the Earth back then? You probably could have safely pointed it in any direction.

Hi Joe,

I doubt it.  This says the PDX population was 568,000 in '54:  Portland Metro Area Population 1950-2022 | MacroTrends

However, that does seem high to me.

Jerry Baumchen

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9 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

This can be gas operated (where there's a port in the barrel that diverts some of the gas to cycle the bolt) or 'recoil operated', commonly called 'blow back' where the force of the fired cartridge on the bolt face is used to cycle the action.

Re-read what the hell I wrote - those are the EXACT words I used. 

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38 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Wendy suggested if the NRA were to be taken over by minorities the US could enact a gun ban.  She apparently believes that minorities are anti gun.  I attached those two links to disabuse her of that notion.

I think she was trying to be funny.

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(edited)
21 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Re-read what the hell I wrote - those are the EXACT words I used. 

Easy Keith we have one guy yanking your chain and another wanting to split hairs. You can feed him the delayed-roller blowback definition which he omitted. Since we're getting to the 3 micron area of hair splitting.

Edited by Phil1111

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1 minute ago, BIGUN said:

Re-read what the hell I wrote - those are the EXACT words I used. 

Well, it's not super clear.

It reads at first look as "all guns that aren't full auto are semi auto". But you're saying that anything self loading that isn't full auto is semi.
I'm not the only one who misread it that way.

But not all self loading is blowback.
There are several different methods of operation.

You're not including repeaters or single shots (but they aren't self loading) and blew off Gowlerk's comment about muzzle loaders. 

It's not a 'hair splitting' discussion.
The differences are pretty clearly defined. Both from and engineering standpoint and a legal one. 

I'm not trying to 'split hairs' or be pedantic (although I am a little bit).
I'm a 'detail weenie' who hates it when people get engineering or legal stuff wrong.

 

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