More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi folks,

Some people just have to have their guns:  Tillamook man pleads guilty to stealing 15 guns from sporting goods store - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

[brenthutch 383]

Biden administration motivates three million+ more June gun purchases shattering all previous non-covid records, many first time buyers, women and minorities.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view

Edited July 2, 2021 by brenthutch

[mistercwood 287]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Biden administration motivates three million+ more June gun purchases shattering all previous non-covid records, many first time buyers, women and minorities.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view

[brenthutch 383]

3 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

When asked, gun buyers cite; the threat of future gun restrictions, civil unrest, and skyrocketing crime as reasons for their purchase.  All either a direct or indirect result of Biden administration policies. No mention of pools or Mr. Cage

[mistercwood 287]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

When asked, gun buyers cite; the threat of future gun restrictions, civil unrest, and skyrocketing crime as reasons for their purchase.  All either a direct or indirect result of Biden administration policies. No mention of pools or Mr. Cage

Yes and your first point is the only one historically that has any ties to the incumbent having a D in front of their name (and even that is mostly a manufactured boogieman).

The other two? Maybe something to do with millions of your citizens, in demographics known to be fond of weaponry, refusing to believe the election was legitimate and threatening to response with violence? *You've* decided people are buying for the first time because of the White House resident. Occam's Razor suggests there are more logical reasons.

[brenthutch 383]

21 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

 *You've* decided people are buying for the first time because of the White House resident. Occam's Razor suggests there are more logical reasons.

No need for Occam’s Razor when you have NPR.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/26/989699122/1st-time-gun-buyers-help-push-record-u-s-gun-sales-amid-string-of-mass-shootings

“These buyers are white, Black, Asian and Latino and come from all political beliefs. And they're being driven by uncertainty, fear and a need to feel safe.

Gun sellers across the country said the pandemic and civil unrest over the past year have pushed customers to feel they must take control of their families' protection. Fears of Congress passing new gun control legislation in the wake of a rash of mass shootings since March are also adding fuel to the buying craze, industry insiders said.”

 

[mistercwood 287]

None of which supports your blanket assertion that Biden's presence in the White House is the trigger. Hence, drownings and Nic Cage films.

A while back you dodged my question about making your online construct a better person. If you won't do that, have you considered making him smarter?

[wmw999 2,121]

15 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

No need for Occam’s Razor when you have NPR.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/26/989699122/1st-time-gun-buyers-help-push-record-u-s-gun-sales-amid-string-of-mass-shootings

“These buyers are white, Black, Asian and Latino and come from all political beliefs. And they're being driven by uncertainty, fear and a need to feel safe.

Gun sellers across the country said the pandemic and civil unrest over the past year have pushed customers to feel they must take control of their families' protection. Fears of Congress passing new gun control legislation in the wake of a rash of mass shootings since March are also adding fuel to the buying craze, industry insiders said.”

 

The “need to feel safe” comes mostly from watching the local news, especially if it’s Fox. Because blood sells, and news media are measured by their ratings, not by their accuracy. 
It would be ludicrous to say that the country is more dangerous now than it was in the late 80’s when murder and violent crime rates were significantly higher -except there are so many more guns out there now, so EVERYONE needs one. 
It’d be interesting to see how well gun thefts track gun sales — except too many people don’t report them. 
Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 383]

3 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

None of which supports your blanket assertion that Biden's presence in the White House is the trigger. 

The Biden administration stated gun control goals have DIRECTLY lead to increased gun sales.  The Democrat support (tacit or otherwise) for open boarders, BLM, ANTIFA, Defund the Police and other such nonsense have INDIRECTLY lead to more gun sales.  Biden is crushing Obama in the more guns in America contest.

[mistercwood 287]

I say this with love - get a job, Brent. Or better hobbies. You're starting drama because you're bored. It's a poor outlet for your energies.

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, mistercwood said:

I say this with love - get a job, Brent. Or better hobbies. You're starting drama because you're bored. It's a poor outlet for your energies.

Thank you for your concern, but I just want you to know that my participation in this forum is not out of boredom but rather is a labor of love.  Sometimes it feels that I am the only one preventing Speakers Corner from devolving into a progressive/liberal circle jerk.  I know it knots some knickers when I share data that is counter to the leftist world view, I know that it doesn’t make me popular yet it is a burden I feel I must bear.  Again thank you for your kind words.

Edited July 3, 2021 by brenthutch

[billvon 2,396]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

The “need to feel safe” comes mostly from watching the local news, especially if it’s Fox. Because blood sells, and news media are measured by their ratings, not by their accuracy. 

Yep.  And the gun industry knows this - and pushes the "Dems will GRAB YOUR GUNS so BUY NOW!" narrative as hard as they can.  The more fear they generate, the more money they make.  Ruger was even donating $1 for every gun they sold to the NRA for a while, and the NRA knew very well how to sell guns - make people afraid.

It's odd that so many people claim to be above all this fear - but fall prey to the merchandising of fear so readily.

[brenthutch 383]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

Yep.  And the gun industry knows this - and pushes the "Dems will GRAB YOUR GUNS so BUY NOW!" narrative as hard as they can.  The more fear they generate, the more money they make.  Ruger was even donating $1 for every gun they sold to the NRA for a while, and the NRA knew very well how to sell guns - make people afraid.

It's odd that so many people claim to be above all this fear - but fall prey to the merchandising of fear so readily.

Bill, many of the first time gun buyers are minorities and women, a largely Democrat demographic.  I thought the Ds were too intelligent to fall for NRA shenanigans.  That said, I don’t recall a single NRA add on TV or radio or print or on Facebook.  Other than a monthly request to renew my membership (which I will not do until Wayne LaPierre is gone) the NRA has gone silent.  To Wendy’s point, who needs the NRA when the main stream media and the Democrats stoke so much fear and division.

[billeisele 122]

16 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

Re:  I agree that something or combination of things needs to be done, just don't know what that is.

Yet, you, IMO, continually respond to BillVon that new laws will not work.  If no new laws will work, then what do you suggest?

Based upon your writing here, I think you want something done also. I know I do.

The major hurdle is the 2nd amendment.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  I know no law that is 100% effective.

Jerry - good morning. BillVon has tempered my view on "new" laws, as discussed somewhere above. They should  (IMO) be reasonable and legal. And there is the 2nd A conflict. I do want something done and have said previously:

- make certain items like bump stocks, and binary triggers Class 3 items

- require that new "firearm enhancement" products be reviewed prior to public release to determine if a Class 3 designation is needed

- require background checks or evidence of a permit on private transactions

- require gun owners to maintain a record of the brand, model and serial number of firearms

- require that gun thefts be reported

- require that cars be locked if a gun is inside

- provide adequate mental health resources

- Use existing and new laws to hammer criminals. I believe that aggressive enforcement sends a clear signal of consequences for actions.

Certainly there are additional reasonable laws that could be enacted. However, regardless of what laws are passed I don't believe that much will improve until the root cause of gun violence is addressed. That means research/studies and folks willing to face up to what is identified.

What I'm not convinced of is the ability of laws to materially temper criminal activity, and am concerned that the creation of laws that are too aggressive will make gun ownership by lawful citizens too difficult.

Hope you have a great Independence Day and weekend celebration.

[brenthutch 383]

8 minutes ago, billeisele said:

- require that new "firearm enhancement" products be reviewed prior to public release to determine if a Class 3 designation is needed

 

The issue I see with this is just who makes that determination.  If it is these guys https://www.wideopenspaces.com/top-10-most-idiotic-anti-gun-quotes-from-politicians/

then we have a problem.  Have a great Independence Day weekend!

[Phil1111 910]

12 hours ago, mistercwood said:

Yes and your first point is the only one historically that has any ties to the incumbent having a D in front of their name (and even that is mostly a manufactured boogieman).

The other two? Maybe something to do with millions of your citizens, in demographics known to be fond of weaponry, refusing to believe the election was legitimate and threatening to response with violence? *You've* decided people are buying for the first time because of the White House resident. Occam's Razor suggests there are more logical reasons.

The GOP and trump together with FOX, drive fear. They created the culture war and the arming of the parties/tribes is the natural result. Pounding the QAnon drum and promising a overthrow of democracy furthers this arms race.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Phil1111

[brenthutch 383]

34 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The GOP and trump together with FOX, drive fear. They created the culture war and the arming of the parties/tribes is the natural result. Pounding the QAnon drum and promising a overthrow of democracy furthers this arms race.

Trump’s best month was around 3.7 million, Biden has him beat by around a millions guns.  QAnon?!?!  Hey Phill, 2020 called they want their boogie man back.

Edited July 3, 2021 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 383]

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/05/21/as-chicago-area-gun-sales-rise-its-creating-an-ammunition-shortage/

“With Guns Flying Off The Shelves, Firearms Sales Nationwide Could Set Records In 2021; ‘Can’t Keep Stuff On The Shelf Long Enough’”

Dems control the House, the Senate, White House and main stream media.  No Trump, no Republican control, no Q, they own the hyper weaponization of American, full stop.

Edited July 4, 2021 by brenthutch

[billvon 2,396]

14 hours ago, billeisele said:

- require background checks or evidence of a permit on private transactions

- provide adequate mental health resources

Agreed to both of those.  In addition, allow law enforcement additional means to ensure the above.

For example, recently an ex-cop was arrested for being part of the Jan 6th riot.  He also sent out threatening social media posts saying things like "The only voice these people will now listen to is VIOLENCE."  After being arrested he was released with the provision that he give up any firearms he had and not purchase any more.

He then went out and bought 34 more weapons.

Currently there's no effective way to stop this.  A background check would not have worked since he has not been convicted of the felonies he is charged with.

[kallend 1,623]

Happy 4th July, folks.

Mass shootings

There were several mass shootings over the holiday weekend. CNN defines a mass shooting as an incident with four or more people killed or wounded by gunfire, excluding the shooter.

Eight people were injured early Sunday morning in a shooting near a car wash in Fort Worth, Texas, after an argument between a group of men, according to a Fort Worth police news release.

One of the men left during the argument, returned with a gun and began firing "toward groups of people," and multiple people returned gunfire, the release said. Most of the victims, who are in stable condition, are believed to be innocent bystanders, police said.

 

Slain Georgia golf pro Gene Siller was someone who could make a bad day brighter, friends say

In Norfolk, Virginia, four children were shot on Friday afternoon, including a 6-year-old girl who was initially reported to be suffering life-threatening injuries but is now in stable condition, according to Norfolk police. The victims also included a 14-year-old boy, a 16-year-old girl, and a 16-year-old boy, all of whom are expected to fully recover.

Norfolk police said detectives have arrested and charged a 15-year-old boy in connection with the shooting.

In suburban Atlanta, golf professional Gene Siller was fatally shot at a country club on Saturday, and police are still looking for the suspect, according to Cobb County police. Siller, 41, was found unresponsive with an "apparent gunshot wound to the head" and was pronounced dead at the scene, police said. Two other gunshot victims were also found on the course.

One person and eleven others were injured in a shooting at a block party attended by several hundred people in Toledo, Ohio on Sunday night, according to Toledo police. A 17-year-old is dead after he was flown by helicopter to the University of Michigan Hospital for treatment, according to Toledo Police Chief George Kral.

Two victims, a 51-year-old and a 19-year old, are in critical condition, Kral said, and the other nine people wounded are in stable condition, their ages ranging from an 11-year-old to three 19-year-olds.

Police in Cincinnati, Ohio, said two males, ages 16 and 19, were killed and three others injured at a holiday celebration at a park late Sunday night. The two males were "engaged in a verbal altercation that resulted in the two exchanging gunfire" and the other victims were caught in the crossfire, Cincinnati Police Chief Eliot Isaac said at a news briefing on Monday.

Two girls, ages 16 and 17, and a 15-year-old boy were wounded in the shooting, Isaac said. The 17-year-old girl is in critical condition with a gunshot wound to her back while the other two victims suffered gunshot wounds that were not life-threatening, Isaac said.

In Dallas, police responded to two separate shootings on July 4, one of which involved five men who were shot. Three of the victims were pronounced dead after being transported to a nearby hospital, police said. A 61-year-old man was killed in another incident after being shot "multiple times in the street during a disturbance," and died at a local hospital, according to Dallas police.

[Bigfalls 110]

Chicago's most violent weekend of 2021: 92 shot, 16 killed, 6 kids among the wounded

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/7/3/22561910/chicago-weekend-shootings-july-2-5-homicide-gun-violence

 

[brenthutch 383]

Maybe it’s because Chicagoans are just nastier than normal Americans.  However the solution is simple, just rename lake shore drive to Jean Baptiste Point DuSable.  Problem solved.

Edited July 6, 2021 by brenthutch

[yoink 321]

On 7/1/2021 at 5:40 AM, wmw999 said:

If you really consider a gun to be like a hammer, how many do you own if you’re not either in a construction business or a serious hobbyist? 
Wendy P. 

You’ve made me go and count my hammers…. 
 

I may need to downsize.

Edited July 6, 2021 by yoink

[yoink 321]

On 7/3/2021 at 8:27 PM, billvon said:

 

He then went out and bought 34 more weapons.

 

This sort of stuff absolutely baffles me - even more then the typical gun insanity. 

I mean, how many guns do you actually need? WHY do you need multiples? I'm pretty certain we send soldiers out with a gun and extra magazines stuck into their gear, not extra guns for each time they run out of ammo. Surely money would be better spent just buying one or two, maintaining them and buying ammo and mags?

It's completely illogical stuff like this that has me convinced gun ownership is an emotional problem, not a legitimate 'I need protection' one.

[billvon 2,396]

10 minutes ago, yoink said:

This sort of stuff absolutely baffles me - even more then the typical gun insanity. 

Liberals are against guns in the minds of conservatives, so buying 34 guns is a big "fuck you" to liberals.  For many conservatives it really goes no further than that.