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goobersnuftda

2 blade prop or 3 blade prop?

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Thanks for the info Martin, I'm really excited to see the performance of the PPonk with the 3 blade Mc Cauley 401 86" , I thinking in add the aileron and flaps gap seal kit and stol fences in addition to the wing X extension.



I do not have a STOL kit, logically it should add to the lift. I'd have to purchase another Wing-X kit to install STOL cuffs now, likely not going to happen. With the short gear on my 182D, 82" is pretty much as long as I could go, don't know that I'd want/need more anyway.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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Howdy. Sorry for the slow reply - I'm not on the boards as much as I once was. My DZ is at about 700 ft. I'm not quite sure what the gap seals and fences will get you - you may want to check around a bit prior to spending the money. Let us know how your airplane performs. I had fun this weekend flying mine in formation with another '56 with the 260 hp conversion and wing extensions. I had to throttle back quite a bit to stay with him...

Randy

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Hi Randy,

I was looking at the backcountry pilot website about the flap gap seal , and found out that they increase the climb rate, but will affect your short takeoff capability a bit, my DZ has a long runway so no problem about that ;)
As soon as get the plane in the air I 'll post an update.

Thanks a lot for now.

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Thanks everyone, this thread has really got me thinking about jump planes (especially 182/206) mod's/upgrades.

I own 3 straight tails and recently purchased (got a steal on) a super low time 1975 182P. Its sat since 1996, so we are doing a full "re-build" and my goal is to build it up into a bad ass super light weight jump plane.
This thread as got me thinking about other mod's, not only prop/engine, but anything else that will help make this plane the fastest around. I've seen TX skyways has a pending STC to install a IO-550N which would make for 310 continues HP, does any one have experience operating this engine? I'd like to focus on the airframe to. I'm a little torn over the ART wing extensions. Seem's like a high price to pay for not a huge climb improvement.

I've always had a crazy dream about installing a Allison 250-B17 turbine engine on a 182 (same engine they do the soloy C-206 with). Its around 450 hp, derate it to around 350 HP and you have a monster workhorse, but after seeing what Van has had to go through on this C-206 turbine conversion, that might have to be a dream...

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my goal is to build it up into a bad ass super light weight jump plane



MidwestFreefall (Randy) has a bad ass 182. I've jumped it before, and been in it when it passed another 'fast' 182 on the way to altitude like it was standing still. PM him for the details of his exact configuration, but it's fast and has proven to be durable and reliable.

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Hi, Van, I've always heard great things about your 206's (everyone says they will out perform any other jump 206).
Are you a fan of the Sportsman STOL leading edge cuff? I can see where it will help with climb slightly, but I'm worried about added drag on decent. What are you thoughts?
Are the ART wing extensions the way to go? I operate all of my airplanes off of a 2,100' and 3300' paved runway so short field performance is not a must for me. I keep running the numbers and for $4,000 + for the kit, plus another 60+ hours to install, it seems like the minimal climb improvement is not worth the cost....?
I'm not necessarily looking for the fastest climb to altitude, but the fastest turn around (wheels up to wheels down). I'd hate to spend ~$7,000 + to make the airplane go to 10k faster, when it will lose time in decent due to drag...a bit counter productive if you ask me. That's why I'm trying to find the perfect mix...improving climb without sacrificing too much in the decent.
We all know turbine is the way to go...but I haven't hit the lottery....yet!

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Hi, Van, I've always heard great things about your 206's (everyone says they will out perform any other jump 206).
Are you a fan of the Sportsman STOL leading edge cuff? I can see where it will help with climb slightly, but I'm worried about added drag on decent. What are you thoughts?
Are the ART wing extensions the way to go? I operate all of my airplanes off of a 2,100' and 3300' paved runway so short field performance is not a must for me. I keep running the numbers and for $4,000 + for the kit, plus another 60+ hours to install, it seems like the minimal climb improvement is not worth the cost....?
I'm not necessarily looking for the fastest climb to altitude, but the fastest turn around (wheels up to wheels down). I'd hate to spend ~$7,000 + to make the airplane go to 10k faster, when it will lose time in decent due to drag...a bit counter productive if you ask me. That's why I'm trying to find the perfect mix...improving climb without sacrificing too much in the decent.
We all know turbine is the way to go...but I haven't hit the lottery....yet!



I may have said this before, but 60 hours to install the Wing-X extensions is a bullshit number, or damn poor mechanics doing the work. A couple of good A&P sheet metal guys should easily be able to do it in an 8 hour day, so 30 hours would be almost double.

Also, adding drag in descent is a good thing. The more drag you have, the steeper you can descend without exceeding VNE.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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Also, adding drag in descent is a good thing. The more drag you have, the steeper you can descend without exceeding VNE.



Yeah, I didn't get where we was coming from either.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Yes I like the Sportsman Stol. Cheaper than the wing x. I also like the wing x. You do not need the gross weight increase that the wing x gives the early models. The sportsman gives great performance in the 182 giving better handling and climb at the heavier weights. The P model 182 is a heavier airplane. The sportman also provides great engine out safety. The wing x seems to help at higher altitudes and higher airspeeds.
All of my aircraft have both the Sportsman and Wing X installed and the 206 needs them both to carry the #3600 to 14k msl.

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Ok I've decided to go big and do both sportman stol and the Wing X. Should make for a nice set of wings. I really want to do the IO-550 N, but TX skyways is only doing it for the S and T model 182's. Does anyone know of an STC to install the 550N on a P model (1975) Cessna 182?? If i'm going to spend this much $$$ I'd really like the have the 310 HP that the 550N would give me. I was thinking worst case try to do a field approval for it? I'd really like to do the McCauley 401 prop, but I think the P model sits to low.

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I think that if you have Airplanes do the conversion, it'll run you over $80,000, if you get a quote please do share! It's always about the money, this is a large driving factor influencing so many DZOs to hang the Pponk 520 on their airplanes. I did the Texas Skyways O-520U/TS with prop for around $45,000 three years ago.

You'd likely be money ahead if you could find an airframe with the engine upgrade already complete. You do the Stol, Wing-X, and engine you're going to have over $100,000 invested, plus what you have in the airframe to begin. One of the guys once advised me "You'll never be able to get that money out of that airplane." To which I replied "I'll have to fly that money out of it!"

http://www.airplains.com/index.php/parts/engine-conversion/84
Powerplant

The benefits and increased performance offered by either the IO-520-D engine or the IO-550-D engine are impressive, with a few differences.IO-520-D

The IO-520-D engine generates 300 horsepower at an RPM of 2850, which is allowed for 5 minute intervals. On take off, at full throttle, 300 horsepower are available for five minutes, then a power change is made to bring the engine back to 285 horsepower (maximum continuous horsepower).

The IO-550-D engine generates 300 horsepower at 2700 rpm, and has no limitations. The basic difference between the IO-520 engine and the IO-550 engine is the stroke of the piston within the cylinder, the 550 being longer, thus creating more cubic inches, and 300 sustainable horsepower through increased torque.

Your engine will be equipped with a new starter, Bendix 1200 series magentos, harness and plugs, heavy duty non congealing oil cooler, high capacity oil pump, VAR crankshaft, Heavy crankcase (7th Stud) and integral oil filter.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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You'd likely be money ahead if you could find an airframe with the engine upgrade already complete. You do the Stol, Wing-X, and engine you're going to have over $100,000 invested, plus what you have in the airframe to begin. One of the guys once advised me "You'll never be able to get that money out of that airplane." To which I replied "I'll have to fly that money out of it!"



Hi Martin, I've thought a lot about the conversion. As I said before I have 3 straight tails, which I've been kicking around doing the conversion on, but I was always hesitant to put close to six figures$ into a 50 + year old airplane with 6,000+ hours.
I got the 1975 model out of a barn where it sat for 15 years. Its only got 1100 TT and I picked it up for a fraction of whats it worth. so basically the airframe was free, I'm just paying for mods/upgrades. As I said before and turbine is out of my reach, so I'd like to build this 182 into the next closest thing. I'd really like to go with the 550 N since is 310 continuous HP, instead of the 300 that the 550-D produces, but I think the only way that will happen is with a field approval and that can be risky.
I'm sure I'll never get my $$ out of it, but that being said a few of my 182's have been in my family since the late 1960's, flying jumpers, and are still flying every day! I'm hoping this P model will be an airplane I can pass to my grand kid's in 30 years. I don't think you'll find an all around better work horse (piston) than a 180/182/206.

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You'd likely be money ahead if you could find an airframe with the engine upgrade already complete. You do the Stol, Wing-X, and engine you're going to have over $100,000 invested, plus what you have in the airframe to begin. One of the guys once advised me "You'll never be able to get that money out of that airplane." To which I replied "I'll have to fly that money out of it!"



Hi Martin, I've thought a lot about the conversion. As I said before I have 3 straight tails, which I've been kicking around doing the conversion on, but I was always hesitant to put close to six figures$ into a 50 + year old airplane with 6,000+ hours.
I got the 1975 model out of a barn where it sat for 15 years. Its only got 1100 TT and I picked it up for a fraction of whats it worth. so basically the airframe was free, I'm just paying for mods/upgrades. As I said before and turbine is out of my reach, so I'd like to build this 182 into the next closest thing. I'd really like to go with the 550 N since is 310 continuous HP, instead of the 300 that the 550-D produces, but I think the only way that will happen is with a field approval and that can be risky.
I'm sure I'll never get my $$ out of it, but that being said a few of my 182's have been in my family since the late 1960's, flying jumpers, and are still flying every day! I'm hoping this P model will be an airplane I can pass to my grand kid's in 30 years. I don't think you'll find an all around better work horse (piston) than a 180/182/206.



As I understand the field approval process has changed somewhat within the last few years. I was informed by my FSDO that they could not approve any engine upgrade on a field approval beyond 10% increase from original. That was the deciding factor in going with the Texas Skyways engine for me, since they had the STC back to 1956. I later figured out that I could have went with the Pponk on a field approval even though it is more than 10% at 275 +/- hp, but the data plate on the engine will indicate something like 240 hp.

Were I starting over, I may be inclined to consider a U206 for the two additional seats.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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