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Hooknswoop

2020 vehicle & firearm statistics

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“According to the Gun Violence Archive, a total of at least 19,223 people lost their lives due to gun violence in 2020.”

according to a report from the National Safety Council (NSC). More than 42,000 people are estimated to have died on U.S. roadways last year”
 

I’m not seeing the same response (in terms of number of threads and number of replies) to vehicle fatalities as firearms fatalities.  

Derek V

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21 minutes ago, Hooknswoop said:

I’m not seeing the same response (in terms of number of threads and number of replies) to vehicle fatalities as firearms fatalities.  

Derek V

Probably because the official (government/industry) reaction to vehicle fatalities is so strong.

New requirements for car safety systems.  New testing requirements.  New laws.  Entire government organizations dedicated to studying highway accidents and avoiding them in the future.  New technologies.  New driver training and outreach programs.  Repairs and improvements to highways and secondary roads.  Better enforcement.  Better reporting.

Compare that to firearm fatalities.  After a mass shooting, the primary government/industry reaction is to lobby against gun laws, and to tell everyone that Biden is going to steal your guns.

If we put the same effort into preventing gun deaths as we did highway deaths there would be far fewer - and you wouldn't see people here saying that we needed to put that effort in.

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No western industrial nation has shown itself able to function without motor vehicles.

Every  western nation besides the USA has shown itself able to function just fine with very effective restrictions on firearms availability.  Thanks to people like Derek, the USA hasn't even bothered to try.

Every other western nation has a far lower gun fatality rate than the USA.

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1 hour ago, billvon said:

Wow that infant death rate is staggeringly high.  Drug deaths are 35.9 per 100,000 - infant deaths are 690 per 100,000.

That is infant deaths per live birth.  Adjusting for fertility rate gives ~5.7 infant deaths per 100,000 population.

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17 hours ago, billvon said:

Wow that infant death rate is staggeringly high.  Drug deaths are 35.9 per 100,000 - infant deaths are 690 per 100,000.

kinda like we have a problem that not only does nobody know about, but seems that nobody cares...

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1 minute ago, sfzombie13 said:

kinda like we have a problem that not only does nobody know about, but seems that nobody cares...

The 2020 election "This marked the first time that Ohio voted for the losing candidate since Richard Nixon in 1960, and also the second consecutive election in which the state voted over 10 points to the right of the nation as a whole, confirming the state's trend towards the Republicans. This is the first time since 1976 in which Ohio voted to the right of Texas"

Ohio as it moves to the right for a decade now

"A new report out shows the life expectancy for Ohioians can vary by decades just based on the neighborhood where they live. 

The Health Policy Institute of Ohio released  their report called “Closing Ohio’s Health Gaps: Moving Toward Equity”  which shows when it comes to being healthy, our state just isn't cutting it. 

  • Nearly 30 Year Life Expectancy Gap
  • Franklin County Among Lowest at 60 Years
  • Ohio Ranks 46th Relative to Other States"

When you bite from the QAnon apple things go bad.

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On 3/4/2021 at 12:46 PM, headoverheels said:

That is infant deaths per live birth.  Adjusting for fertility rate gives ~5.7 infant deaths per 100,000 population.

Right - but that's still one out of 2800 births.  Worse than Cuba, Slovenia and the Czech Republic.

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10 minutes ago, phantomII said:

I really wonder about the traffic fatalities.
In Germany we had about 2700 killed on the roads in 2020.
What makes driving in the US so dangerous?

Adjusting for population, and auto miles per capita, the German 2700 would be equivalent to 15,400 in the US -- still only 35% of the US rate.

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4 hours ago, phantomII said:

I really wonder about the traffic fatalities.
In Germany we had about 2700 killed on the roads in 2020.
What makes driving in the US so dangerous?

you can get a license at 16 with almost no training, the exact opposite of germany.  it shows when you see folks at 80+ with about a car length following distance.  then they all get amazed when one hits the brakes and 100 or so pile up...idiots.

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On 3/5/2021 at 11:31 PM, phantomII said:

I really wonder about the traffic fatalities.
In Germany we had about 2700 killed on the roads in 2020.
What makes driving in the US so dangerous?

German autobahns are better built and German drivers have better situational awareness.

Posted by a guy who has driven in Canada, USA, Germany, Austria, Italy, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, France, Belgium and Holland.

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16 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

German autobahns are better built and German drivers have better situational awareness.

Posted by a guy who has driven in Canada, USA, Germany, Austria, Italy, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, France, Belgium and Holland.

I will echo this and the comment from sfzombie13 about how easy it is to get a license in North America. The licensing process in Canada (which I understand is not overly dissimilar from the US) is absolutely abysmal.

Posted by a guy who had to get his car and motorcycle license in both The Netherlands and Canada.

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On 3/4/2021 at 12:22 PM, billvon said:

Probably because the official (government/industry) reaction to vehicle fatalities is so strong.

The cost to get a German driver’s license is $2300-$3700.  In the US, it is $20-$1000.

”strong” is relative.  I do not agree that the government’s reaction is strong.  Imagine if auto braking, lane assist, GPS speed limiting, etc. were required.

As long as the government’s reaction is ‘strong’, then you are happy with the numbers.  42,000+ fatalities is fine.

If the government had a “strong” (in your opinion) reaction to gun violence, you would ok with 19,233/year firearm related fatalities?

Derek V

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On 3/4/2021 at 12:32 PM, kallend said:

No western industrial nation has shown itself able to function without motor vehicles.

Every  western nation besides the USA has shown itself able to function just fine with very effective restrictions on firearms availability.  Thanks to people like Derek, the USA hasn't even bothered to try.

I guess nothing can be done then, just thoughts and prayers.

thanks to people like me?  What did I do/not do?

Derek V

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1 hour ago, Hooknswoop said:

The cost to get a German driver’s license is $2300-$3700.  In the US, it is $20-$1000.

”strong” is relative.  I do not agree that the government’s reaction is strong.  Imagine if auto braking, lane assist, GPS speed limiting, etc. were required.

Airbags, seatbelts, the LATCH system (carseat compatibility) TPMS and ESC ARE required.  That's a lot of stuff, stuff that wasn't practical 30 years ago.  That's a pretty strong reaction.  Emergency braking, lane departure warning, and GPS overspeed warnings are being looked at too.  They may be required as well.  I would be very surprised if emergency braking were not a requirement within 5 years.

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As long as the government’s reaction is ‘strong’, then you are happy with the numbers.  42,000+ fatalities is fine.

Nope, and I never claimed that.

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If the government had a “strong” (in your opinion) reaction to gun violence, you would ok with 19,233/year firearm related fatalities?

Nope.  But if they put as much effort into it as they put into mitigating vehicular fatalities - AND they saw similar reductions in death rates - they would be heading in the right direction.

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On 3/6/2021 at 1:31 AM, phantomII said:

I really wonder about the traffic fatalities.
In Germany we had about 2700 killed on the roads in 2020.
What makes driving in the US so dangerous?

Booze, drugs and no autobahn.

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8 hours ago, billvon said:

Airbags, seatbelts, the LATCH system (carseat compatibility) TPMS and ESC ARE required.  That's a lot of stuff, stuff that wasn't practical 30 years ago.  That's a pretty strong reaction.  Emergency braking, lane departure warning, and GPS overspeed warnings are being looked at too.  They may be required as well.  I would be very surprised if emergency braking were not a requirement within 5 years.

Nope, and I never claimed that.

Nope.  But if they put as much effort into it as they put into mitigating vehicular fatalities - AND they saw similar reductions in death rates - they would be heading in the right direction.

The new cars are full of this stuff and more. Auto headlamps, auto wipers, brake hold, auto emergency braking, proximity warnings, cruise control with auto distance following, etc. Some of it can be turned off and some of it can't. Lane departure can usually be turned off but auto distance with cruise control can't. In GMC trucks the lane departure vibrates the seat based on the direction of the departure. On the Chevy Blazer the auto start-stop can't be turned off, on the Explorer it can. Granted that's not a safety feature, more of a pollution/gas mileage feature. Many vehicles have warnings if it senses erratic driving, it suggests you pull over for coffee and a break.

It would be interesting to know how much of the cost increase in cars is due to the mandatory safety features. It sure makes one think twice about the extended warranty just to covers the electronics, a backyard mechanic can't fix this stuff with a wrench and screw driver.

Seems that the gov't focused on safety features for cars because they are considered almost mandatory in a "western industrial nation", and that the death and injury rates were quickly climbing. It's a little scary that a teenager can take a simple driving test under ideal conditions in low traffic areas and then have a license to drive at night, in the rain, on a crowded interstate. Also scary that there is no retesting at older ages. That's in SC, don't know about other states. But that license is valid in every state.

Other than cost, wonder why there are not simulators for training and testing. Seems that they wouldn't be that expensive. A prospective driver could be given all kinds of scenarios with the computer generating a grade. Anyone could rent time on one to learn to drive and sharpen skills. It could let folks play with their phone and system controls then play back the video so they could see how it impacted their driving. The options are unlimited.

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On 3/6/2021 at 1:31 AM, phantomII said:

I really wonder about the traffic fatalities.
In Germany we had about 2700 killed on the roads in 2020.
What makes driving in the US so dangerous?

Als ich in Deutschland lebte, gingen die Leute überall hin. In den USA fahren die Leute zum Haus ihres Nachbarn. Wie ich Volksmärsche vermisse

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And that's why we moved to a town; we're a quarter mile from town, and yes, I walk or bicycle everywhere. Whenever my car dies (it's used to go back and forth to other states, and haul stuff), I'll probably replace it with an occasional rental, rather than remaining a 2-car family.

Wendy P.

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3 hours ago, billeisele said:

It would be interesting to know how much of the cost increase in cars is due to the mandatory safety features. It sure makes one think twice about the extended warranty just to covers the electronics, a backyard mechanic can't fix this stuff with a wrench and screw driver.

Seems that the gov't focused on safety features for cars because they are considered almost mandatory in a "western industrial nation", and that the death and injury rates were quickly climbing. It's a little scary that a teenager can take a simple driving test under ideal conditions in low traffic areas and then have a license to drive at night, in the rain, on a crowded interstate. Also scary that there is no retesting at older ages. That's in SC, don't know about other states. But that license is valid in every state.

Other than cost, wonder why there are not simulators for training and testing. Seems that they wouldn't be that expensive. A prospective driver could be given all kinds of scenarios with the computer generating a grade. Anyone could rent time on one to learn to drive and sharpen skills. It could let folks play with their phone and system controls then play back the video so they could see how it impacted their driving. The options are unlimited.

That's the interesting thing about all this.  Cars are now CHEAPER than they were ~80 years ago in real dollars.  The average price of a car has been inflating about 2.3% a year; inflation for everything else has been about 3.5% a year.  (And they're more powerful, safer, have more toys etc)

https://www.in2013dollars.com/New-cars/price-inflation

Quote

Seems that the gov't focused on safety features for cars because they are considered almost mandatory in a "western industrial nation", and that the death and injury rates were quickly climbing. It's a little scary that a teenager can take a simple driving test under ideal conditions in low traffic areas and then have a license to drive at night, in the rain, on a crowded interstate. Also scary that there is no retesting at older ages.

Yeah, there's definitely a tradeoff between training and putting safety devices in a vehicle.  The US with its "government is always bad" bloc of voters has shied away from mandated government training for drivers, so maybe the increase in safety features is the mitigation for that.

Quote

Other than cost, wonder why there are not simulators for training and testing.

Good idea.  They certainly exist; using them more often for private driver training would make sense.  (They are already used for commercial driver training.)

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(edited)
26 minutes ago, billvon said:

That's the interesting thing about all this.  Cars are now CHEAPER than they were ~80 years ago in real dollars.  The average price of a car has been inflating about 2.3% a year; inflation for everything else has been about 3.5% a year.  (And they're more powerful, safer, have more toys etc)

https://www.in2013dollars.com/New-cars/price-inflation

 

A $15,000 car in 1935???

Auburn 1935 851 Boattail Speedster ; Price $2250
The Boat Tail Speedster was one of the last cars made by Auburn with 150HP engine 4.6 Ltr supercharged eight and designed to attract the young and rich but the depression meant that even this magnificent pinnacle of Auburn found sales difficult .

A Buick was $1195.in 1935.

I'd suggest using average car prices in 1950 as a better calculator. Because it reflects automation of production better, sidesteps the great recession and WW2 influences. In 1955 price: $1,987 USD was the retail for a Chevrolet Bel Air. Using the same calculator $19,394.16 should be the 2021 retail price.

Most motorists want these safety features and insurance companies likely give discounts for such features.

Edited by Phil1111

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