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wildernessmedic

Deployment body position

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I did 5 tracking suit jumps and had line twists with all of them. If it was just one or two I'd figure pack job.

When I pitch I'm stable and remain on heading throughout the deployment, until it's time to kick out of them.

Can body position still cause your bag/unopened canopy to twist even if you remain on heading? Once in a while I get line twists without a tracking suit but never really that many in a row. Bad luck, pack, or body position?

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Are you deploying while you still have some forward motion?

Wingsuiters are careful to get or modify their rigs with "open corners". That means that the bottom left and right outside corners are not sewn with a slight pocket in them to help hold the bag in place until it is snatched out of the container by the pilot chute. That's good for a normal deployment when you're falling straight down. It helps keep the bag from floating out prematurely and mixing up with the lines.

However, if you have forward speed, the pilot chute is pulling backwards against those corners, instead of straight up. So the bag can catch in one of those corners and pop out unevenly, causing it to spin, thereby winding up the lines as they deploy. To avoid that, you have a rigger "open up" the corners to remove that pocket.

So, check those corners and see what you've got.

Note that this is a trade-off depending on what type of jumping you do. What's good for belly-flying, is not good for tracking, and vice-versa. So whatever you do with those corners, if you're using that rig for both types of jumping, then you've got a compromise with one or the other.

Bright idea: Someone invent a rig with convertible corners. Snaps? Something that could be packed open or closed, depending upon what type of jump you are planning on doing next.

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Wel, that answered my question. Everything is the problem haha.

So even though i'm completely on heading throughout the deployment slight shoulder movement may cause it.

Or because I don't have dynamic corners and the bag is spinning out.

Or because i've been making my line bights longer lately.


I haven't done a tracking jump with anyone so it's hard to tell if i'm still moving forward at all. I do belly out and try to stop all forward movement.


Is there any downside to dynamic corners on a skydiving container? My base rig has them, and just takes a little bit extra to close. If there's not maybe i'll unstitch it.

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wildernessmedic


Is there any downside to dynamic corners on a skydiving container? My base rig has them, and just takes a little bit extra to close. If there's not maybe i'll unstitch it.



Dont see a downside to it. Theres sky rigs with dynamic corners too. Just make sure closing loop is properly adjusted if needed. Obviously cant comment on your rigging skills tho but I dont see an issue with it.

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wildernessmedic

Is there any downside to dynamic corners on a skydiving container?



The downside is that if you get a pilot chute hesitation, your deployment bag may start floating up off your back and entangle with the bridle. Those pocketed corners were designed to keep the bag in place until it's actually pulled out by an inflated pilot chute.

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I have lots of tracking/angle jumps, both with and without tracking suit and with a tight fitting main canopy and never had a problem even without dynamic corners. My first wingsuit jumps were also done without dynamic corners. If you plan to wingsuit alot then sure, get them done, if not then its a bit of a over kill. I bet its just your body position. Also, when you pack, make sure that the lines between the last line stow and risers are same lenght on both sides.

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first thing that pops into my mind is youre going slower, and possibly forward and that mixed with a semi-worn or too small of pilot chute, can invite all kinds of shit.... the longer stows can add to bag wobble... try and pull out your bag on the ground straight back from your rig and see how the stows pop off... youll see what i mean, itll rotate with each stow... maybe try a semi stowless bag, or try arching harder and getting smaller when you pitch...


https://youtu.be/Iq3_vH_qk7U
heres a video of someone pitching right out the door and you can watch the bag flip and twist just before line extension. also look at the angle its deploying in relation to the ground and you can see the lines sagging as it plays out... low airspeed can invite all of this....
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

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Some wing suit jumpers have spent time analyzing the deployment sequence frame by frame from rear facing helmet cams and found the d-bag can really spin up in the bad air behind them as the canopy is openning..
I know a couple of them that began leaving the canopy wrap open for about 6 inches or so at the lines when they pack to allow air to start inflation quicker.
They claim it minimizes spin up considerably without causing hard openings. No personal experience myself.
"You don't get many warnings in this sport before you get damaged"

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wildernessmedic

Is there any downside to dynamic (open) corners on a skydiving container?



Another possibility is if your closing pin gets dislodged before or during exit, or in freefall. The closed corners can help hold the bag in place for a normal deployment. The jumper may not even know his flaps are open behind him.

But with open corners, that bag can float up out of the container. And with the pilot chute still in its pouch, that gives you a nasty horseshoe malfunction.

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PC might have something to do with it since it is reaaallly worn out. But again this only occurs in the tracking suit. All good stuff to keep in mind but none of it effected my openings without the suit. So I guess that only leaves forward speed and dynamic corners.

I did learn to double wrap my locking stows and keep my line bites shorter. I really need a new container :)

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wildernessmedic

PC might have something to do with it since it is reaaallly worn out. But again this only occurs in the tracking suit. All good stuff to keep in mind but none of it effected my openings without the suit. So I guess that only leaves forward speed and dynamic corners.

I did learn to double wrap my locking stows and keep my line bites shorter. I really need a new container :)



I started flying wingsuits at jump 201. My container does not have the open corners. From jump 22 until jump 700+ I flew a Pilot 210 loaded at 0.93. In my 700s I switched to a Pilot 190 loaded at 1.07.

My line twists events went up when I started wingsuiting and didn't really start decreasing a lot until I had 400 or so WS jumps. Packing method didn't change over that period. I tried to deploy many different ways, in flight, in belly fall position, and many ways in between. Nothing seemed to matter much.

Part of my twists were due to uneven inflation that happened as the lightly loaded 210 would open up. An end cell was often a bit late and I would get some twists. That appears to have changed with the 190 that I have now.

Today I can deploy in odd body positions (in a wingsuit) and almost never get any line twists. I do things people say "don't do..." and it seems to not matter.

One thing that I appeared to have learned is a better way to fly during the deployment. It is not something specific that I can identify. It just feels like I own it now, more like I am in control rather than just hoping it works well.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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Soooo, what are we taking away from all of this??? When you start deploying parachutes other than "belly to Earth" you start throwing variables into the mix. I was another guy who knew flying WS was for me, so I scored a PF PTS and jumped the fuck out of it. Never had a bad deployment or line twists. with over 60+ jumps. Enter the WS. EVERYTHING gets more complicated. Pull time for my first couple dozen jumps was not a good time! Fast openings and line twists can kill your buzz man!

I've got the fancy Skysnatch, I've got my container with dynamic corners(recently after my first chop, yup, fuck me line twists!), I fly a Storm with a 1:1 WL, I pull strong and try my best to keep good body position thru deployment. And yet I still get the dreaded ugly opening from time to time. So I annalise my jumps and try to figure out why... Take/keep notes and keep asking questions :)

Bare in mind we are discussing TRACKING, so just arch and go "box man" prior to pulling.

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timski

Soooo, what are we taking away from all of this??? When you start deploying parachutes other than "belly to Earth" you start throwing variables into the mix. I was another guy who knew flying WS was for me, so I scored a PF PTS and jumped the fuck out of it. Never had a bad deployment or line twists. with over 60+ jumps. Enter the WS. EVERYTHING gets more complicated. Pull time for my first couple dozen jumps was not a good time! Fast openings and line twists can kill your buzz man!

I've got the fancy Skysnatch, I've got my container with dynamic corners(recently after my first chop, yup, fuck me line twists!), I fly a Storm with a 1:1 WL, I pull strong and try my best to keep good body position thru deployment. And yet I still get the dreaded ugly opening from time to time. So I annalise my jumps and try to figure out why... Take/keep notes and keep asking questions :)

Bare in mind we are discussing TRACKING, so just arch and go "box man" prior to pulling.



The main point of my reply was that opening the corners of the container is not "the" solution.

I too analyze my jumps, looking for ways to improve. My “take away” is,
1. Often there is no real single answer/solution
2. When I think I am good, I can get a lot better with more experience/practice

I am often amazed at what I have learned without knowing I was even learning. Things start working a lot better and experience is the only thing that seems to have changed.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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Part of my twists were due to uneven inflation that happened as the lightly loaded 210 would open up. An end cell was often a bit late and I would get some twists. That appears to have changed with the 190 that I have now.


When people first learn to pack I notice an odd phenomenon.

They will do their first pack jobs and get screwy deployments. Everyone gives them advice - "control the nose" "control the tail" "keep the lines even" "roll the nose" etc etc. They get frustrated. "I am doing all those things and nothing works!"

So after a few dozen pack jobs they start seeking out more . . . unusual advice, because nothing works with the conventional advice. Someone says stuff the outside cells into the center cell. So they try that. Someone says use clamps. So they try that. Someone says to intentionally leave the slider off the stops for more accurate inflation. So they try that. Someone says to roll pack because it's better. Or flat pack. Or don't flake the tail. Or stand facing the container. Or only pack when there's wind. Or use rubber gloves. Or stand with your legs farther apart.

And then one day they start getting better openings. "It worked! My legs were too close together this whole time!" And that's great. But what they sometimes miss is that it's not some new trick they discovered or helpful gadget that they are using - it's just that they now have 50 pack jobs and are getting better at the basics, like keeping the lines straight and the tail under control.

As people progress they generally get better at everything - packing, body position on opening, PC throw, controlling heading under canopy etc. So often, better deployments come from a slow improvements in a lot of factors, rather than one big/sudden one.

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