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billvon

White privilege example for this week

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9 minutes ago, airdvr said:

OK...so let's assume that WP is real.  What do you do about it?

Let's not start by delegitimizing it by adopting a cutesy acronym. Instead, let's stick with white privilege. Next might be recognizing that taking advantage of the benefits at anothers expense is a form of racism. Lot's of next steps are available then.

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1 hour ago, airdvr said:

OK...so let's assume that WP is real.  What do you do about it?

Recognize it.
Try not to contribute to it.
Try to help others realize that it's real. 
Understand that affirmative action programs are trying to counter it.

Note that 'feel guilty about it', 'pay reparations to the minorities' or 'take blame for it' or anything else that conservatives seem to think that people bringing it up want them to do aren't on the list.

Edited by wolfriverjoe
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1 hour ago, airdvr said:

OK...so let's assume that WP is real.  What do you do about it?

Work with your company on DEI initiatives.

Recognize your unconscious biases and work to minimize them.  (We all have them.)

Become an ally.

When you hear small anti-minority comments don't ignore them.  (Jokes usually.)  That helps change the climate.

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58 minutes ago, billvon said:

Work with your company on DEI initiatives.

Recognize your unconscious biases and work to minimize them.  (We all have them.)

Become an ally.

When you hear small anti-minority comments don't ignore them.  (Jokes usually.)  That helps change the climate.

At the end of the day it's about acceptance. No one who is catching a break owing to their skin color is unaware of what is happening. That makes it racism. Really, why hate groups of people when there are so many who are deserving on an individual basis. And it's more satisfying, too.

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17 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

No one who is catching a break owing to their skin color is unaware of what is happening. That makes it racism.

Yes, if that's happening it's racism.  But often it is not.

In the 1950's, a lot of people were unaware of any issues.  They didn't think there was an issue with black people sitting at lunch counters, because they never saw any black people sitting at lunch counters.  They ate somewhere else.  What's the problem?Black people sat at the back of the bus.  They seem happy there and it's always been that way.  What's the problem?  Our CEO's have always been white men.  But there are plenty of black people in the company.  What's the problem?

Unless you show people the problem they don't think it's a problem - because it has never been a problem for THEM.

For years I would talk about how I was not privledged because I had to work so hard for what I got.  I had a story about making my final tuition payment in nickels and dimes from my third job as a laundromat maintenance person.  That misses that many people never had the chance to even pay tuition in the first place.

So I think a lot of people catch breaks and are not aware they are catching breaks.  And if you try to tell them that, their first reaction was similar to mine years and years ago - "How dare you say I didn't work for it!"

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13 minutes ago, billvon said:

So I think a lot of people catch breaks and are not aware they are catching breaks.  And if you try to tell them that, their first reaction was similar to mine years and years ago - "How dare you say I didn't work for it!"

This! It took me quite some time to realize that many opportunities afforded to me were really not available to everybody.

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2 hours ago, billvon said:

Work with your company on DEI initiatives.

Recognize your unconscious biases and work to minimize them.  (We all have them.)

Become an ally.

When you hear small anti-minority comments don't ignore them.  (Jokes usually.)  That helps change the climate.

I would say recognizing that one might have biases without being aware of which ones they are is really important, because it makes me at least consider that everyone probably has the same good intentions I do, just sometimes about other things. 
And go out of your way to do it, because “in your way” is probably in your comfort zone. 


Wendy P. 

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2 hours ago, billvon said:

Yes, if that's happening it's racism.  But often it is not.

In the 1950's, a lot of people were unaware of any issues.  They didn't think there was an issue with black people sitting at lunch counters, because they never saw any black people sitting at lunch counters.  They ate somewhere else.  What's the problem?Black people sat at the back of the bus.  They seem happy there and it's always been that way.  What's the problem?  Our CEO's have always been white men.  But there are plenty of black people in the company.  What's the problem?

Unless you show people the problem they don't think it's a problem - because it has never been a problem for THEM.

For years I would talk about how I was not privledged because I had to work so hard for what I got.  I had a story about making my final tuition payment in nickels and dimes from my third job as a laundromat maintenance person.  That misses that many people never had the chance to even pay tuition in the first place.

So I think a lot of people catch breaks and are not aware they are catching breaks.  And if you try to tell them that, their first reaction was similar to mine years and years ago - "How dare you say I didn't work for it!"

One has to wonder where you'd be now if you had just kept shiffling coins out of washing machines. Elon Wash? Jeff Dryzos? An American story lost. SAD!

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Realtors with a conscious. "Through her company, Lisa Wise, has helped fund dozens of projects through microgrants for “doers, makers and disruptors in the District.” Over the years, she’s helped buy hundreds of smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors for senior homes, put bicycle repair stations in southeast D.C. and even make hot sauce. 

But her latest project may be her most ambitious yet, taking on the racial wealth gap by paying reparations to Black Americans through grants for first time homebuyers.

“The murder of George Floyd compelled Flock to study our privilege as a company,” said Wise, CEO of Flock DC, in a statement over email. “Presumably, our hard work and creativity anchored our success. But did it really? In part, yes. But there is a harder truth to reconcile. And to be candid - that reconciliation will be out of reach until we, as a society, write a future that begins to undo the wrongs of the past when it comes to Black and Brown Americans.”

On the other hand you have Florida Realtors spending the $9.1 million dollars commission on this:$130-million-plus beachfront house sale in Palm Beach sets new record

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1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Realtors with a conscious. "Through her company, Lisa Wise, has helped fund dozens of projects through microgrants for “doers, makers and disruptors in the District.” Over the years, she’s helped buy hundreds of smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors for senior homes, put bicycle repair stations in southeast D.C. and even make hot sauce. 

But her latest project may be her most ambitious yet, taking on the racial wealth gap by paying reparations to Black Americans through grants for first time homebuyers.

“The murder of George Floyd compelled Flock to study our privilege as a company,” said Wise, CEO of Flock DC, in a statement over email. “Presumably, our hard work and creativity anchored our success. But did it really? In part, yes. But there is a harder truth to reconcile. And to be candid - that reconciliation will be out of reach until we, as a society, write a future that begins to undo the wrongs of the past when it comes to Black and Brown Americans.”

On the other hand you have Florida Realtors spending the $9.1 million dollars commission on this:$130-million-plus beachfront house sale in Palm Beach sets new record

If you are gonna sell homes, don't sell yurts, I reckon. The most of what I've done has been real estate. 3 subdivisions, 2 major and 1 minor partitions and, except for one 19 acre piece I picked up for embarrassing reasons, I have never bought or sold through a real estate agent. All that you need are average wits, a few Stevens-Ness forms, knowing how to order a title report, and an attorney to finalize the deal and you are good. And, truly, all the attorney is there for is to make the counter party feel good about things. 

The reality is that most folks just drive around looking at property where they think they might want to live. They see a sign and they call the real estate agent. The real estate agent hasn't done jack for the seller except promise that the house will be listed in their brochures next printing. They will tell you that based on "comps" you should ask for X. X is not what they believe is top buck it's what they think they can quickly sell the house at.  Because they are frothing at the mouth for the commission they almost immediately tell you what they think the seller will take. The Broker gets half the 6 or 7% and the agent maybe splits their 3 percent 2 or 3 ways. It's an absolute waste and a joke. Do not be fooled or prey. For sale by owner is the only way to go. Just study up a bit.

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The problem I have with FSBO is you the seller want the buyer to have no representation so you the seller can make more off the sale.  The buyer doesn't benefit unless you're reducing the price by not having to pay a brokerage commission.  Most buyers won't do FSBO simply because they don't understand the transaction and want some guidance.

Now, commissions are expensive.  I get that people don't want to pay 6-7%.  In this market the standard is 6% of the first $100K, 4% above.  Usually works out to ~5%.  If the broker is getting half of that you need to find a new broker.  Keller Williams has a "cap".  The max the broker takes for the year.  In our case it's 30% until we reach the cap amount.  After that it's all to the agent.  Cap starts in February for our group.  We usually reach the cap amount by the end of April.

The industry is under attack by disrupters.  And most residential agents are their own worst enemy.  The first thing that needs to change is making "Dual Agency" illegal.  Many states have already outlawed the practice.  In simple terms most listing agreements call for a split of the commission between the buyer's agent and the seller's agent.  If I list a property and bring a buyer I get both sides of the commission.  Problem is I can't truly represent both sides.  You can't be the guy trying to score the goal and the goalkeeper.  So what happens in that situation is neither party gets good representation.  Our group will not allow dual agency.  We feel it's unethical.

Edited by airdvr

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20 minutes ago, airdvr said:

The problem I have with FSBO is you the seller want the buyer to have no representation so you the seller can make more off the sale.  The buyer doesn't benefit unless you're reducing the price by not having to pay a brokerage commission. 

The reality is that it's the buyer who should get a real estate agent, if they want protection. Arguably, without the excessive commission the seller would be asking less up front. 

Regardless, whoever gets it is still getting it and I still claim that +$25K on a $500K sale is simply excessive pay for an agent whose license is equal to 9 community college credits and who usually has no real world business experience. Being tied down to that level of experience by a 6 month exclusive right to sell employment contract that leaves you obligated both to pay even if you find the buyer and requires that you let them carry offers back and forth makes no sense to me. Your lawyer can handle the entire shebang, except establishing the sale price, for a grand or $1500 plus title and escrow. Yes, some buyers don't like FSBO but that is mostly due to impressive marketing by the real estate industry. What you do is vastly different than run of the mill home and land sales. Deals like you do wouldn't happen without shepherding. Home sales happen because people like the area and the price makes sense.

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2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

The reality is that it's the buyer who should get a real estate agent, if they want protection. Arguably, without the excessive commission the seller would be asking less up front. 

 

That almost never happens.  It's human nature to get the most you can get.

BTW, I'm in agreement with most of your point.  I started in residential and was fortunate enough to create a niche.  At the same time I was appalled at the lack of professionalism of your average agent.  There is a saying that 80% of real estate is done by 20% of the agents.  The ones who know and understand the business.  The others are just fighting over the scraps but they give the industry as a whole a bad rep.

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On 2/11/2021 at 10:17 PM, SkyDekker said:

Lot's of good examples already shared. The biggest thing you can do in my opinion is being aware of it, try to recognize it and and try and support change.

This.

Note that even minorities DO NOT WANT to recognise that white privilege exists, the complete opposite of the rubbish that brenthutch is saying.

Non-white people, like the rest of you, are taught the value of hard work from a young age. The media, society is filled with stories of black and ethnic minority people making it to the top with the virtue of hard work. Even Brent quoted some of those stories. So there's no surprise that even some non-white people will be very against the notion of white privilege, especially if they've had some success, as it would imply that their success had an element of luck in addition to the hard work - they'd prefer it ALL to be due to their effort.

And to a non-white person, white privilege is an unpleasant notion that you'd prefer not to exist, so many non-white people start with the assumption that it doesn't exist. Until it's too obvious to deny.

We already know that brenthutch loves stroking himself in this forum, he likes to imply that leftists are somehow weak and afraid, or how he's freedom-loving while "lefties like lockdowns" (which exactly zero lefties have said, and the opposite is true) and this is just part of it, he likes to imply that ethnic minorities are less likely to work hard than white people, well, because he's white.

 

Edited by olofscience

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On 2/10/2021 at 8:02 PM, brenthutch said:

Or maybe it was because the first time they hit a roadblock in their career they chalked it up to racism and gave up.  Powell and others persevered and made it to the top.  That is why the concepts of “white privilege” and “systemic racism” are so pernicious.  It gives an excuse for failure.  It makes failure easy. Instead of one looking at one’s  own opportunities for growth they blame it on a nameless faceless “system”.

That's almost troll like over-simplicity, typical right wing thinking that I see so often.  "Let's never talk about racism because it could be taken as an excuse, and never talk about the USA's failures because then it makes us sound 100% evil and weak, let's never talk about...[whatever]"

Something can exist without being the cause of 100% of all effects. Many factors can affect how things happen. You might as well say, "Let's never talk about workers being sick because then workers can blame any issue they have at work on being sick. It gives an excuse for failure".  Sure, someone can be silly and can blame all of their problems on X,Y, or Z, but that doesn't mean X, Y, and Z don't actually exist.

 

On 2/10/2021 at 8:02 PM, brenthutch said:

If systemic racism was a real thing, I doubt we would have a black senator from the home of the confederacy.

Yup, troll... on the level of  "If the Jewish Holocaust were real, why are there still Jews around?"

 

 

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9 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Black couple gets lowballed on an appraisal. So they get a second appraisal and have a white friend pose as the owner when it is done:

Black CA couple lowballed by $500K in home appraisal, believe race was a factor

A lot of people probably think this is unfair. How many would think they got lucky if they bought the house at a discounted price because of this kind of thing?

Wendy P. 

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