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billvon

White privilege example for this week

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6 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

So the lack of representation is due to them just not working hard enough and just not being capable. Got it.

Or maybe it was because the first time they hit a roadblock in their career they chalked it up to racism and gave up.  Powell and others persevered and made it to the top.  That is why the concepts of “white privilege” and “systemic racism” are so pernicious.  It gives an excuse for failure.  It makes failure easy. Instead of one looking at one’s  own opportunities for growth they blame it on a nameless faceless “system”.

If systemic racism was a real thing, I doubt we would have a black senator from the home of the confederacy.

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Just now, JoeWeber said:

You are just demonstrating how vacuous you really are. You have absolutely zero, apparently, awareness about who I am or how I have lived my life. I have profile in skydiving, it would be easy as pie for anyone to pop up and call bullshit on me with my anti-racist, pro LGBTQ, pro women's rights, pro taxation to benefit all and not paying shit wages to people claims. You don't know me. You do not where where I've been or how I've lived my life. 

Nor do you about me. Feel free to look back what comment you made to start us down this road.

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7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Or maybe it was because the first time they hit a roadblock in their career they chalked it up to racism and gave up.  Powell and others persevered and made it to the top.  That is why the concepts of “white privilege” and “systemic racism” are so pernicious.  It gives an excuse for failure.  It makes failure easy. Instead of one looking at one’s  own opportunities for growth they blame it on a nameless faceless “system”.

That still doesn't address the fact that visible minorities are statistically underrepresented in leadership positions in the armed forces. I reject the idea that it is due to minorities giving up easily and crying racism as you are implying here.

Edited by SkyDekker

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11 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Nor do you about me. Feel free to look back what comment you made to start us down this road.

Alright, you've lived in Toronto as an adult for a long time and then moved to Vancouver until now. Apparently where you have lived in those big cities there were lots of non-white folks. Now, in follow up you observed that before those enlightened times you live in mostly white only places. Now maybe I need to get out more, but I have been to Canada and while I did find a decent Pho' joint in Winnipeg and another in Vancouver but not one in Montreal it really didn't remind me of Bangkok or Jakarta or even Buenos Aires. Tell me about how multi cultural it really is and just what I missed.

Edited by JoeWeber

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23 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

That still doesn't address the fact that visible minorities are statistically underrepresented in the armed forces. 

Uh, it pretty much does.  
 

BTW if both Joe (lefty) and I (righty) agree that you are full of sh*t you really need to reassess

 

Edited by brenthutch

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7 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Now maybe I need to get out more, but I have been to Canada and while I did find a decent Pho' joint in Winnipeg and another in Vancouver but not one in Montreal it really didn't remind me of Bangkok or Jakarta or even Buenos Aires. Tell me about how multi cultural it really is and just what I missed.

Have you been to Toronto? You may find it is a bit different from Winnipeg, Vancouver and Montreal.

Why does multicultural remind you of Bangkok, Buenos Aires, and Jakarta? None of those cities struck me as very multicultural. Singapore, San Francisco, Sydney, even Paris much more so. Even Vancouver isn't multicultural in my opinion, with 3 predominant cultures.

BBC has a decent piece on Toronto being the most multicultural city in the world. You can listen to it here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p03v1r1p

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3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Someone better tell her about white privilege because she OBVIOUSLY didn’t get the memo.

 

I'm going to go on a limb and guess that you are inferring that the link to the video is yet more evidence that a black person has succeeded ergo white privilege is a myth?

I'm not sure that's what you meant...  I am only inferring based on the fact you have pulled out this same bad argument many times already now...

It's interesting that you attacked another poster on the basis that English is not his native language.  English is not my native language but I think I am at least using good logic in my arguments.  You, on the other hand, appear not to be fluent in logic, so let me educate you (guide you out of - but I can't force you to learn)...

a - the video was a reference to the mental gymnastics it takes to make the kinds of arguments you are making in order to deny the existence of white privilege.  It was a joke / attempt at humour.  Apparently lost on you as well.  Nevermind - I thought I was hilarious and as I am mostly trying to entertain myself on here, mission accomplished!  :clap::clap: ( <-- self-congratulation on making myself laugh)

b - How are you making logical fallacies??  Let me count the ways...  ( <-- nerdy reference to victorian poem)

      1 - Ad Hominem / Tu Quoque (litterally - "against the man" / "you too").  These 2 logical fallacies are similar in that you attack the person as "proof" that the argument is bad.  This is more than just becoming exasperated and calling someone names.  This goes one step further and happens when someone makes the claim that "the other person is an idiot," therefore his/her argument must be stupid.  This is an illogical leap.  The "look who's talking" attack does not prove or disprove the person's statement.

In assessing whether and argument follows good logic, it doesn't matter who is saying it only matters what is being said.  Because even a moron can make a good point.  An argument stands alone and it is either good or it is bad, period.  In fairness to you, you are not the only person on here guilty of this crime against logic.

      2 - Non Sequitor ("does not follow").  A, therefore B, therefore EARRING.  No logical / correct link. 

Example of good logical sequence: All of Quebec is in Canada.  All Canada is in North America.  Therefore All of Quebec must also be in North America.  

Example of bad logical sequence: All of Quebec is in Canada.  All Canada is in North America.  Therefore Quebec must be full of cunts.  The first two statements are not proof of or linked to the third, which may or may not be correct.

Example of non sequitor statement: there are barriers to success, but it is still possible to succeed, therefore there is no white privilege.  (there is no logical connexion between "possible" and "harder")

      3 - Circulus in Probando (circular reasoning).  The argument refers back to itself as evidence that the argument is correct = bad logic.  

Example: We know certain traits make you successful.  How do we know?  Successful people have these traits. 

Example: We know Muhammad wrote the Kuran.  How do we know?  It says so in the Kuran.  (it doesn't really say that and was probably dictated by Muhammad & written by a scribe)

Example (not made by you): America is the best place to live because it's better than any other country.  (the argument loops back to itself as proof of itself - it's better because it's better)

      4 - Red Herring Fallacy (throwing in irrelevant statements to distract - often to avoid uncomfortable truths).

Example: Let's face it everyone struggles.  (error in logic: this has nothing to do with how much different people struggle and whether patterns of struggle exist and whether there are mechanisms at play that favour one group versus another.  Yes, everyone struggles.  Irrelevant in the debate about white privilege.)

Example: What about Asian privilege?  (Again: irrelevant to the debate about white privilege.  A distraction tactic - and a bad one at that.)

 

I could go on...

My point?  Your arguments do not follow good logic.

Edited by Nataly
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1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Have you been to Toronto? You may find it is a bit different from Winnipeg, Vancouver and Montreal.

Why does multicultural remind you of Bangkok, Buenos Aires, and Jakarta? None of those cities struck me as very multicultural. Singapore, San Francisco, Sydney, even Paris much more so. Even Vancouver isn't multicultural in my opinion, with 3 predominant cultures.

BBC has a decent piece on Toronto being the most multicultural city in the world. You can listen to it here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p03v1r1p

I concede defeat. Sorry for the bother.

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8 hours ago, Nataly said:

 

I think it's fair to say the debate ended several pages ago. 

Now we are all just farting out of our mouths...

if you are referring to the last several posts between two individuals, it was not a debate to start with.  it was an argument, and i know, i am involved in a lot of those.

it was also wrong, since the one knew nothing about the other beside area lived in.  i find diverse places in wv where there are mainly white folks. 

Edited by sfzombie13
had a thought

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14 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

That still doesn't address the fact that visible minorities are statistically underrepresented in leadership positions in the armed forces.

I was in from the early 70's to the early 90's. It was a time of drastic change. The articles that you and Jakee are referring are WaPo exceptions, not the rule. Here's an article from the time I was in that is well-balanced. https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/politics/defense/moskos.htm

And, what you guys don't seem to get is that improvement is continuous, Not perfect at any point in time and we all can do better. But, the military is doing the best at improving. Much better than the civilian sector.    

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4 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I think Nataly just won SC for the day :rofl:

Wendy P.

 

Wow!!!  I would like to thank all the white people who helped me achieve this great honour.  And also my parents for being white ^_^B) 

PS: Can I put "winner of SC - 11 February 2021" on my CV??!!!  :rofl:

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24 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

No further corrections allowed. She already got an attagirl and a Queen for the Day from the other Mod.

See below, Joe was right. If everyone keeps it up she won't need a AC to get to 12.5

Just now, Nataly said:

 

Wow!!!  I would like to thank all the white people who helped me achieve this great honour.  And also my parents for being white ^_^B) 

PS: Can I put "winner of SC - 11 February 2021" on my CV??!!!  :rofl:

 

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1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

And, what you guys don't seem to get is that improvement is continuous, Not perfect at any point in time and we all can do better. But, the military is doing the best at improving. Much better than the civilian sector. 

I have not said the military is not addressing these issues. Actually the links I have posted indicate the steps the military is taking. It also shows clearly that the military is aware that this is a problem to begin with. Recognizing an issue exists is the first step in any solution.

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40 minutes ago, Nataly said:

 

Wow!!!  I would like to thank all the white people who helped me achieve this great honour.  And also my parents for being white ^_^B) 

PS: Can I put "winner of SC - 11 February 2021" on my CV??!!!  :rofl:

Very upset you didn't thank God first. Religious privilege reigns supreme!!

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1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

See below, Joe was right. If everyone keeps it up she won't need a AC to get to 12.5

 

 

Awww fuck me...  I actually googled "AC to get to 12.5" and still don't know what it means :seenoevil:

Please tell me so I know the appropriate emoji response!!

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