White privilege example for this week

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

1 hour ago, Nataly said:

Oh dear...  Can't believe I am posting this...

American legislation in particular was designed by white men who owned property.  They actively denied the vote to anyone else and this is a tradition that continues today.  And nevermind suppressing the vote... 

It should come as no surprise that rules favour the rule-makers.  Always.  If all your rule-makers have historically been white men who owned property, you can't then turn around and say "but that doesn't exist anymore."  It sure as hell does.

Look...  Those slaves who were "set free."  Did they get back pay for allllll those years where they worked without pay for the white man???  Did they get dividends from their direct contribution to their owners' increase in wealth???  Setting people free and not paying them for their work or their contribution, not allowing them to vote, not allowing them to own property, et cetera, et cetera...  Well, what kind of "freedom" is that, really?? 

That's like taking a bird from it's tree, ripping off it's wings, and throwing it off from your balcony and saying: there you go, now go fly with the other birds!  And then claiming those wingless birds have the same opportunities as the other birds is just plain crazy.  And the descendants of wingless birds who never had anyone to teach them to fly are STILL operating with a handicap.  Et cetera, et cetera.

Change - significant, real, long-lasting change - takes a verrrrrrrry long time.  Racism exists.  White Privilege exists.  Sexism exists.  Saying otherwise is either stupid as fuck, or extremely disingenuous.

 

Hi Nataly,

Re:  Racism exists.  White Privilege exists.  Sexism exists.  Saying otherwise is either stupid as fuck, or extremely disingenuous.

You could not be more correct.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 hours ago, Nataly said:

Oh dear...  Can't believe I am posting this...

American legislation in particular was designed by white men who owned property.  They actively denied the vote to anyone else and this is a tradition that continues today.  And nevermind suppressing the vote... 

It should come as no surprise that rules favour the rule-makers.  Always.  If all your rule-makers have historically been white men who owned property, you can't then turn around and say "but that doesn't exist anymore."  It sure as hell does.

Look...  Those slaves who were "set free."  Did they get back pay for allllll those years where they worked without pay for the white man???  Did they get dividends from their direct contribution to their owners' increase in wealth???  Setting people free and not paying them for their work or their contribution, not allowing them to vote, not allowing them to own property, et cetera, et cetera...  Well, what kind of "freedom" is that, really?? 

That's like taking a bird from it's tree, ripping off it's wings, and throwing it off from your balcony and saying: there you go, now go fly with the other birds!  And then claiming those wingless birds have the same opportunities as the other birds is just plain crazy.  And the descendants of wingless birds who never had anyone to teach them to fly are STILL operating with a handicap.  Et cetera, et cetera.

Change - significant, real, long-lasting change - takes a verrrrrrrry long time.  Racism exists.  White Privilege exists.  Sexism exists.  Saying otherwise is either stupid as fuck, or extremely disingenuous.

 

Please post more.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

It just makes me sad to see MLK Jr’s dream undermined by a bunch of “woke” white folks.

 “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”

 

 

 

You'd be better quoting  from Les Miserables:

I had a dream my life would be
So different from this hell I'm living
So different now from what it seemed
Now life has killed the dream, I dreamed

[jakee 1,254]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

 but to say that a Winter Hill gang member has it better than IceT is just pure nonsense.

What? White privilege does not mean that every single white person is always treated better than every single black person, and it is indeed pure nonsense to suggest that any individual examples disprove it. 

Amazing the lengths that racists will go to convince themselves they're not racist.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I agree, the Jussie Smollett incident is a perfect example.  A person commits a horrible fraud, impugning a group of less privileged individuals and walks away scot free because of his privilege.

Right. Smollett's lawyers get him a sweet plea deal over filing a false police report, and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyers got him a sweet plea deal over being a serial child rapist and sex trafficker. Who's more privileged?

[Darius11 12]

There is no such thing as White privilege, it is a ridiculous idea that ignores reality and at best becomes a crutch, an excuse for failure. The idea is detrimental to all

There is economical privilege period.

 In homogenous countries where they don't have the melting pot that we have in the US, guess what? people with money get treated better then poor people. That's the case now that's always been the case. I am not talking about bribes,  Its stuff like being able to afford to live in a better neighborhood, there is generally less stress for everyone including the cops who patrol these neighborhoods compared to the ghetto. Add to that list all the things that wealth can offer and the the fact that having more money generally improves the probability of safety health and success for you and loved ones anywhere on this planet. There are plenty of poor white people with no privilege and plenty of rich minorities who get all the privilege its about $$$ 

Can we also admit that perception is something we all have and we all when presented with a new human make some prejudgments good and bad? Can we admit the way you talk, look and present yourself matters! or have most of us left reality!?

Can you understand why at the airport me a middle eastern male gets randomly selected everytime by the TSA and the little old white grandma who is 78 doesn't....if you can't or have to pretend you cant understand that, know that i do understand and its not racism to me its called common sense. I understand that the biggest representation of brown,tan people like me in the past i don't know lets say 20 years or so is explosions Islam and death. Now i am glad that i live in a country where my rights are preserved and i am viewed equal under law, however it would be disingenuous of me to pretend to not understand why some people who don't know me personally might have some reservations or prejudgments......why do so many pretend not to understand this? 

However my biggest issue with the term white privilege is that it takes attention away from the actual problems. Like no fathers, no family unit, no values, no discipline! and gives an impression that you can only succeed if your white! which is untrue. Why is it so many immigrants who have come here with less of a foundation then even the poorest Americans, who also have to deal with the same system  deal with racism and judgment dig themselves out of poverty? Why is it so many African Americans, Latinos , Asians and other minorities do outstanding in this country and are the picture of success? It's there families and the values they have been taught by them. It starts at home.

The only way you can fix any problem is by being honest about the cause, not pandering in a cloak of sympathy thats detrimental to the very people you think you're helping

Its been very frustrating watching the dialogue of this country in the past few years, I have read often white people who are coming from a good place make the dumbest statements, like We are such a Racist country!!  I always ask them, have you been anywhere else? i don't mean on vacation have you ever lived anywhere else? do you know how people in europe pick any country on the continent feel about certain people? how about Asia? the Middle East? Africa!? you know where they cut your hands off in certain places if your from a different tribe?

America is the least racist place on this planet.

Work hard make better decisions sacrifice for the greater good of your family and you can have some privilege too.

 

 

[Nataly 38]

Whatever you grow up with probably seems normal.  And it takes extra effort to see beyond your narrow field of vision and/or to critically assess what you think you know.  Not seeing something doesn't make it non-existant.  Consider an iceberg.  From the surface it may look small.  If a diver tells you "dude it's actually HUGE" and you don't believe the diver, it's because you are relying on the small part you have seen or heard about (what you think you know), and not the facts.

There are many places in the world pointing to America right now as an example of how fucked up things can be and they are thankful not to be in the US.  They see what a lot of Americans don't/can't/won't see: the American Dream is a myth.   

Pulling up exceptions of success despite the odds does not change those odds.  The fact that it is possible to climb a mountain, barefoot, without tools, during a blizzard, is not proof that the mountain does not exist.

Re pandering to so-called victims...  How about we stop telling ourselves the lie that they just need to work harder?  Like they are the problem...  How long have we been saying to women stop wearing short skirts??  Shouldn't we be teaching men to stop raping??  

[olofscience 420]

9 hours ago, brenthutch said:

The reason real, long-lasting change takes a verrrrrrrry long time is because when folks claim victim status and blame their lot in life on others instead of taking responsibility for their own actions/inactions, change is slow to come.

This is extremely ironic for someone who is arguing against the principle of white privilege by claiming victim status on behalf of white people who aren't ahead in life compared to ethnic minorities. But I guess the concepts of probability and statistics are too hard for you to understand.

[brenthutch 383]

I would ask you all to re-read Darius11’s post.

 (sfzombie you can ask him how much money he got to”sell out”)

[brenthutch 383]

7 hours ago, jakee said:

Right. Smollett's lawyers get him a sweet plea deal over filing a false police report, and Jeffrey Epstein's lawyers got him a sweet plea deal over being a serial child rapist and sex trafficker. Who's more privileged?

The one that is still alive?

[sfzombie13 307]

10 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I would ask you all to re-read Darius11’s post.

 (sfzombie you can ask him how much money he got to”sell out”)

hell no, because he wasn't paid (as far as i know, and if he was where is mine?) to post that while the other guy was (i admit assuming) most likely was in the video.  he is just as wrong though. 

[sfzombie13 307]

6 hours ago, Darius11 said:

There is no such thing as White privilege, it is a ridiculous idea that ignores reality and at best becomes a crutch, an excuse for failure. The idea is detrimental to all

There is economical privilege period.

 In homogenous countries where they don't have the melting pot that we have in the US, guess what? people with money get treated better then poor people. That's the case now that's always been the case. I am not talking about bribes,  Its stuff like being able to afford to live in a better neighborhood, there is generally less stress for everyone including the cops who patrol these neighborhoods compared to the ghetto. Add to that list all the things that wealth can offer and the the fact that having more money generally improves the probability of safety health and success for you and loved ones anywhere on this planet. There are plenty of poor white people with no privilege and plenty of rich minorities who get all the privilege its about $$$ 

Can we also admit that perception is something we all have and we all when presented with a new human make some prejudgments good and bad? Can we admit the way you talk, look and present yourself matters! or have most of us left reality!?

Can you understand why at the airport me a middle eastern male gets randomly selected everytime by the TSA and the little old white grandma who is 78 doesn't....if you can't or have to pretend you cant understand that, know that i do understand and its not racism to me its called common sense. I understand that the biggest representation of brown,tan people like me in the past i don't know lets say 20 years or so is explosions Islam and death. Now i am glad that i live in a country where my rights are preserved and i am viewed equal under law, however it would be disingenuous of me to pretend to not understand why some people who don't know me personally might have some reservations or prejudgments......why do so many pretend not to understand this? 

However my biggest issue with the term white privilege is that it takes attention away from the actual problems. Like no fathers, no family unit, no values, no discipline! and gives an impression that you can only succeed if your white! which is untrue. Why is it so many immigrants who have come here with less of a foundation then even the poorest Americans, who also have to deal with the same system  deal with racism and judgment dig themselves out of poverty? Why is it so many African Americans, Latinos , Asians and other minorities do outstanding in this country and are the picture of success? It's there families and the values they have been taught by them. It starts at home.

The only way you can fix any problem is by being honest about the cause, not pandering in a cloak of sympathy thats detrimental to the very people you think you're helping

Its been very frustrating watching the dialogue of this country in the past few years, I have read often white people who are coming from a good place make the dumbest statements, like We are such a Racist country!!  I always ask them, have you been anywhere else? i don't mean on vacation have you ever lived anywhere else? do you know how people in europe pick any country on the continent feel about certain people? how about Asia? the Middle East? Africa!? you know where they cut your hands off in certain places if your from a different tribe?

America is the least racist place on this planet.

Work hard make better decisions sacrifice for the greater good of your family and you can have some privilege too.

 

 

damn, where the hell have you been these past seven decades?  gather 'round folks!  we done solved racism in the us!  nothing more to do here, we are finally back to being great again! 

[wmw999 2,114]

6 hours ago, Darius11 said:

There is no such thing as White privilege, it is a ridiculous idea that ignores reality and at best becomes a crutch, an excuse for failure. The idea is detrimental to all

There is economical privilege period.

 In homogenous countries where they don't have the melting pot that we have in the US, guess what? people with money get treated better then poor people. That's the case now that's always been the case. I am not talking about bribes,  Its stuff like being able to afford to live in a better neighborhood, there is generally less stress for everyone including the cops who patrol these neighborhoods compared to the ghetto. Add to that list all the things that wealth can offer and the the fact that having more money generally improves the probability of safety health and success for you and loved ones anywhere on this planet. There are plenty of poor white people with no privilege and plenty of rich minorities who get all the privilege its about $$$ 

Can we also admit that perception is something we all have and we all when presented with a new human make some prejudgments good and bad? Can we admit the way you talk, look and present yourself matters! or have most of us left reality!?

Can you understand why at the airport me a middle eastern male gets randomly selected everytime by the TSA and the little old white grandma who is 78 doesn't....if you can't or have to pretend you cant understand that, know that i do understand and its not racism to me its called common sense. I understand that the biggest representation of brown,tan people like me in the past i don't know lets say 20 years or so is explosions Islam and death. Now i am glad that i live in a country where my rights are preserved and i am viewed equal under law, however it would be disingenuous of me to pretend to not understand why some people who don't know me personally might have some reservations or prejudgments......why do so many pretend not to understand this? 

However my biggest issue with the term white privilege is that it takes attention away from the actual problems. Like no fathers, no family unit, no values, no discipline! and gives an impression that you can only succeed if your white! which is untrue. Why is it so many immigrants who have come here with less of a foundation then even the poorest Americans, who also have to deal with the same system  deal with racism and judgment dig themselves out of poverty? Why is it so many African Americans, Latinos , Asians and other minorities do outstanding in this country and are the picture of success? It's there families and the values they have been taught by them. It starts at home.

The only way you can fix any problem is by being honest about the cause, not pandering in a cloak of sympathy thats detrimental to the very people you think you're helping

Its been very frustrating watching the dialogue of this country in the past few years, I have read often white people who are coming from a good place make the dumbest statements, like We are such a Racist country!!  I always ask them, have you been anywhere else? i don't mean on vacation have you ever lived anywhere else? do you know how people in europe pick any country on the continent feel about certain people? how about Asia? the Middle East? Africa!? you know where they cut your hands off in certain places if your from a different tribe?

America is the least racist place on this planet.

Work hard make better decisions sacrifice for the greater good of your family and you can have some privilege too.

 

 

Darius, economic privilege is entirely real. You've lived in more places than a lot of us I think, and can speak from experience.

In the US, for a lot of institutionalized reasons (Jim Crow laws, real estate agreements, banking practices, social isolation), the median accumulated wealth of a white family is 8 times that of an African-American family, and 5 times that of an Hispanic family ( Federal reserve data ). Therefore, economic discrimination, as a class, happens more to minorities. That's exactly what institutionalized racism is.

For a lot of people, accumulated wealth comes from our families. Not necessarily from the inheritance, but from the ability to start life out without significant debt, with a better school, and owning rather than renting a house (that's a very large part of many families' wealth).

I would agree that America's laws are not racist. However, there are a LOT of people in America who are very unapologeticaly racist. That means they understand and can explain the problems that white people have, while assuming that all problems of minorities are because of their own inadequacy. That's racism, and classism, right there.

Most people, through supreme effort, can overcome stuff. However, most people aren't capable of supreme effort across the board, and if it requires a whole lot of effort just to get to "average," then it's too easy just to quit, because life isn't just the accumulation of wealth.

Wendy P.

[brenthutch 383]

I’m not saying there is no racism, there is and is found all across the planet in every country and in every race.  I am saying the concept of “white privilege” is a myth.  As far as systemic racism?  That would be the policies pushed by Democrats which resulted in the destruction of the Black nuclear family.  That is not “white privilege” that is two parent privilege.

“in 1964, only 7% of American children were born out of wedlock, compared to 40% today. As Jason Riley has noted, “the government paid mothers to keep fathers out of the home—and paid them well.” 
 

https://ifstudies.org/blog/family-breakdown-and-americas-welfare-system

 

 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

7 hours ago, Darius11 said:

Why is it so many immigrants who have come here with less of a foundation then even the poorest Americans, who also have to deal with the same system  deal with racism and judgment dig themselves out of poverty?

Maybe because they didn't wake up on morning 1 in America expecting it with every fibre in their bodies and every neuron in their brains? Maybe because they don't see every last other member of their families expecting the same thing as well as every last other person in their neighborhood? Maybe because they caught a break from folks because they were different in an acceptable way. If we truly are the least racist place on the planet, which for the sake of argument I'll concede even though I might vote for Bangkok, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing better. To do better we'll need to address the conditions on the ground here and now not, necessarily the conditions on the ground in Doha or Lagos.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

I would ask you all to re-read Darius11’s post.

 (sfzombie you can ask him how much money he got to”sell out”)

Look at you! We haven't had anyone this excited at the arrival of their champion since jaybird swooped in to save Ron on fine day. 

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

The one that is still alive?

Lol

So again I ask, I know you said you intentionally make your online persona appear really spiky, but why do you want to make it appear so stupid?

[sfzombie13 307]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

I’m not saying there is no racism, there is and is found all across the planet in every country and in every race.  I am saying the concept of “white privilege” is a myth.  As far as systemic racism?  That would be the policies pushed by Democrats which resulted in the destruction of the Black nuclear family.  That is not “white privilege” that is two parent privilege.

“in 1964, only 7% of American children were born out of wedlock, compared to 40% today. As Jason Riley has noted, “the government paid mothers to keep fathers out of the home—and paid them well.” 
 

https://ifstudies.org/blog/family-breakdown-and-americas-welfare-system

 

 

it seems that you are fascinated by what the "democrats" did.  so fascinated in fact, that you totally ignore that they were not even thought of when the institutions which started the very real and very systemic racism were put in place, beginning with the 3/5 compromise of the constitution.  the fact that the whole document was written and approved without one mention of any rights for anyone other than the government says they didn't care one bit about anyone other than themselves.  had it not been for hamilton, we would be in a very different country.  go educate yourself and stop looking like an idiot.  it doesn't become you.  better yet, you should come down here and live, you'd fit right in.

Edited February 9, 2021 by sfzombie13
typo

[Phil1111 905]

5 hours ago, Nataly said:

Whatever you grow up with ....  How about we stop telling ourselves the lie that they just need to work harder?  ...

Hey Brent!

[kallend 1,619]

14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I fully acknowledged “privilege”, it just has nothing to do with a lack of melanin.

Once again you demonstrate a total lack of knowledge of statistics.

[olofscience 420]

12 minutes ago, kallend said:

Once again you demonstrate a total lack of knowledge of statistics.

And probability. He's not going to get this joke, but for the people here who do:

[kallend 1,619]

6 minutes ago, olofscience said:

And probability. He's not going to get this joke, but for the people here who do:

Very Bayesean.

[Nataly 38]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

If we truly are the least racist place on the planet, which for the sake of argument I'll concede [...]

This is a bit unfair because I am taking out all the nuance in your argument!!  Sorry!!

We pretty much all have a cognitive bias that makes people think they are better / more intelligent than average.  Of course statistically this is utter nonsense.  It is LITERALLY impossible for EVERYONE to be above average.    Most people, in fact, by definition, are average.  

In a similar way, many, if not most, think their country is the best.  Hard to believe, isn't it?!  I mean...  In some places stealing an apple can result in getting your hand chopped off!!  And in other places, you can spend life in prison for trying to sell $30 of weed (but only if you happen to be black) 

Again, the short section I chose to quote isn't really fair.  Please forgive me - I selfishly used it to make a point!!!  My point was: I really don't think the US is the least racist place in the world.  Not even close.  And many people outside of America would agree with me.  Statistically speaking, even if you disagree with me, it is far more likely to be average 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 minutes ago, Nataly said:

This is a bit unfair because I am taking out all the nuance in your argument!!  Sorry!!

We pretty much all have a cognitive bias that makes people think they are better / more intelligent than average.  Of course statistically this is utter nonsense.  It is LITERALLY impossible for EVERYONE to be above average.    Most people, in fact, by definition, are average.  

In a similar way, many, if not most, think their country is the best.  Hard to believe, isn't it?!  I mean...  In some places stealing an apple can result in getting your hand chopped off!!  And in other places, you can spend life in prison for trying to sell $30 of weed (but only if you happen to be black) 

Again, the short section I chose to quote isn't really fair.  Please forgive me - I selfishly used it to make a point!!!  My point was: I really don't think the US is the least racist place in the world.  Not even close.  And many people outside of America would agree with me.  Statistically speaking, even if you disagree with me, it is far more likely to be average 

No apologies necessary. Really, if you are going to play here you'll need to get used to being unfair, ignoring nuance, and taking things out of context, too. Feel free to practice on me. When you get good, subject to the usual disputations here, I'll help you find someone more deserving.

[ryoder 1,380]

15 minutes ago, Nataly said:

We pretty much all have a cognitive bias that makes people think they are better / more intelligent than average.  Of course statistically this is utter nonsense.  It is LITERALLY impossible for EVERYONE to be above average.    Most people, in fact, by definition, are average.  

You have obviously never visited Lake Wobegon.