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billvon

White privilege example for this week

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2 hours ago, airdvr said:

You'd have to be crazy to touch this thread with a 10 foot pole.

Within NAR(National Association Realtors), women make up:

  • 56 percent of licensed brokers
  • 66 percent of sales agent licensees
  • 63 percent of full-time sales agents
  • 69 percent of part-time sales agents
1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Just give an example of white privilege in your own life.

As a matter of fact, the real estate profession experiences one of the highest gender pay disparities — the seventh highest as of 2000. This places it below chiropractors and just above physicians. (The lowest gender wage gap is found amongst U.S. postal workers).

The average yearly income for a real estate agent in California is $58,180 as of 2014, according to the BLS. Applying nationwide data on real estate earnings by gender, the average full-time real estate income in California is around:

  • $67,700 for male agents and brokers; and
  • $49,600 for female agents and brokers.

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4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

“The gap can be explained entirely by the fact that, while having the same choice sets in the workplace, women and men make different choices.”

Yes, because women are more prone to be the caregiver and caretaker at home. Your article even explains how mothers generally opted for free time and fathers generally opted for more work. This is because the fathers have other people taking care of their house and kids. The mothers do not have that help and are relied upon to do it themselves. That forces women to make decisions that lead to being able to earn less.

That is why that sentence very specifically uses "workplace" and not "life".

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4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Not even close, my wife is a pharmaceutical executive, I get the kids up, fed and off to school, then it is on to laundry, cleaning, shopping and cooking dinner and checking homework.  So not evenly.

So you should understand how that wage gap works then.

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9 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Within NAR(National Association Realtors), women make up:

  • 56 percent of licensed brokers
  • 66 percent of sales agent licensees
  • 63 percent of full-time sales agents
  • 69 percent of part-time sales agents

As a matter of fact, the real estate profession experiences one of the highest gender pay disparities — the seventh highest as of 2000. This places it below chiropractors and just above physicians. (The lowest gender wage gap is found amongst U.S. postal workers).

The average yearly income for a real estate agent in California is $58,180 as of 2014, according to the BLS. Applying nationwide data on real estate earnings by gender, the average full-time real estate income in California is around:

  • $67,700 for male agents and brokers; and
  • $49,600 for female agents and brokers.

That is an excellent example of the gender equity paradox. In areas where little choice is afforded, pay gap is small.  The largest pay gap is where the most freedom is afforded and different choices are made.  

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1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

That is an excellent example of the gender equity paradox. In areas where little choice is afforded, pay gap is small.  The largest pay gap is where the most freedom is afforded and different choices are made.  

They are false choices if the pressures are different based on gender. Kind of like how the "choices" that African-Americans made to live in places where Jim Crow existed affected their pay.

Wendy P.

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11 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Within NAR(National Association Realtors), women make up:

  • 56 percent of licensed brokers
  • 66 percent of sales agent licensees
  • 63 percent of full-time sales agents
  • 69 percent of part-time sales agents

As a matter of fact, the real estate profession experiences one of the highest gender pay disparities — the seventh highest as of 2000. This places it below chiropractors and just above physicians. (The lowest gender wage gap is found amongst U.S. postal workers).

The average yearly income for a real estate agent in California is $58,180 as of 2014, according to the BLS. Applying nationwide data on real estate earnings by gender, the average full-time real estate income in California is around:

  • $67,700 for male agents and brokers; and
  • $49,600 for female agents and brokers.

Interesting that you target an industry that is made up wholly of independent contractors.  If you are an agent in CA and only make $58K you're doing something wrong.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

They are false choices if the pressures are different based on gender. Kind of like how the "choices" that African-Americans made to live in places where Jim Crow existed affected their pay.

Wendy P.

That is the paradox, the less gender based pressure the wider the gap in choices.  For example, more women choose to enter the higher paying STEM fields in Algeria than they do in Northern Europe and the Nordic states are hardly the Republic of Gilead.

Edited by brenthutch

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25 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Unless you are just choosing to work less.

And those choices might be prioritizing children, housework, elder parents, disabled relatives, wiping bottoms. There are men who do that, but if you consider the disapproval of a man who doesn't "support his family," and of a woman who "is a bitch and doesn't go along," it's not hard to see that those are only "choices" to the particularly strong-minded. Or the single.

A single woman, with no family encumbrances, probably still earns less than a single man, with no impact of "choice," other than her choice to be a woman.

Wendy P.

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7 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

And those choices might be prioritizing children, housework, elder parents, disabled relatives, wiping bottoms. There are men who do that, but if you consider the disapproval of a man who doesn't "support his family," and of a woman who "is a bitch and doesn't go along," it's not hard to see that those are only "choices" to the particularly strong-minded. Or the single.

A single woman, with no family encumbrances, probably still earns less than a single man, with no impact of "choice," other than her choice to be a woman.

Wendy P.

Again it depends on her choices, if she chooses to work as an elementary school teacher than yes, if she chooses to be a petroleum engineer then no. 

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52 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Again it depends on her choices, if she chooses to work as an elementary school teacher than yes, if she chooses to be a petroleum engineer then no. 

Depends on the company culture. Because if it's a good ol' boy company, where a decent amount of the culture and influence are shared outside of the office, then she doesn't have equal access.  She probably isn't going to be invited to the skeet shoots, the hunting trips, the gold games, and the titty bars.

So that  means that at best, she's got equal opportunities and no disadvantage. At worst, she's got disadvantage. Which means that industry-wide, she's paid less for the same job.

Wendy P.

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19 hours ago, billvon said:

I agree - but that reaction is the basis of racism (and xenophobia, and prejudice against the disabled etc.)  We all do it.  It's how we deal with that innate judgment that makes us a racist (or not.)

found one, not the one i was looking for, but that was another computer that isn't around any longer.  i really need to organize a little better.

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39 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Depends on the company culture. Because if it's a good ol' boy company, where a decent amount of the culture and influence are shared outside of the office, then she doesn't have equal access.  She probably isn't going to be invited to the skeet shoots, the hunting trips, the gold games, and the titty bars.

And may even be assaulted on occasion for fun.  But if she complains about that she's not "part of the family" because families don't complain about such things.   And if she goes outside the company?  She is told "people can say virtually anything and that the person or the business about whom they say it is deemed to be guilty until proven innocent." 

Then they have a retirement party for the guy who assaulted her.  And she's blacklisted.

https://amp-kansascity-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.kansascity.com/news/local/article248877119.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16121113351354&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kansascity.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Farticle248877119.html

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5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

If the roles were reversed, our THI (total household income would remain the same.  

Currently, maybe. Would your wife have been able to have the same career path if she was the one predominantly responsible for childcare. That is really the question.

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3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

That is the paradox, the less gender based pressure the wider the gap in choices.  For example, more women choose to enter the higher paying STEM fields in Algeria than they do in Northern Europe and the Nordic states are hardly the Republic of Gilead.

You know the journal that posted that research had to post a correction when other Harvard researchers were unable to recreate the data right? That is when it came out the original researchers used an undisclosed and invalidated method of measuring propensity in men and women.

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3 hours ago, airdvr said:

Interesting that you target an industry that is made up wholly of independent contractors.  If you are an agent in CA and only make $58K you're doing something wrong.

Lots of licensed real estate agents around who hold a license, but do not derive their income directly from it. I hold my license and report absolutely zero income through the sale of real estate. I know at least 50 people who are in the same category. Bet you California isn't much different.

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On 2/3/2021 at 2:28 PM, billvon said:

As others have pointed out, if the capital had been stormed, looted and vandalized by a cop-killing black mob, there would now be dozens dead from being shot by police.  A dozen more would now be dead or hospitalized due to "resisting arrest."  The remainder would be in jail without bail awaiting sentencing for first degree murder, and Trump supporters would be urging the death penalty for all of them.

On Jan 6th Jenny Cudd broke into the capital.  Once there she broke down Pelosi's door and rifled through her desk.  Two days after the coup attempt she was interviewed and she said "I would absolutely do it again."

She was arrested, then immediately released on bail.  Yesterday she asked the judge to allow her to go on vacation in Mexico. 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what white privilege is.  Instead of fighting for your life, your battles are whether or not you get to go on vacation to the foreign country of your choice.

Just an aside, but people who perseverate on race are, by definition, racist.

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22 minutes ago, winsor said:

Just an aside, but people who perseverate on race are, by definition, racist.

Perseverate is an excellent choice of words. However, its very excellence is why it doesn't actually apply, because racism does, in fact, exist.

Wendy P.

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54 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Currently, maybe. Would your wife have been able to have the same career path if she was the one predominantly responsible for childcare. That is really the question.

When the kids were young, she was (I can’t breastfeed) as the kids got older I took over.

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