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Phil1111

Post trump Legal Actions, Including his Enablers

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There is going to be a serious outbreak of spinal fractures amongst the GOP sycophants, from the violent backflipping we will see if this is true. And being Trump, of course it will be true. I wonder how much he gave to his mate Vlad?

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(edited)
49 minutes ago, obelixtim said:

There is going to be a serious outbreak of spinal fractures amongst the GOP sycophants, from the violent backflipping we will see if this is true.

But he was about to give them back! But they knew he took them and said it was ok! But he has top security clearance anyway so what’s the problem! But they were kept in a building protected by Secret Service, what could be safer! But… but… but!

Backflipping? Nah. They’ll have an excuse for anything. And ‘but his giant illegal stockpile of nuclear secrets’ just isn’t that catchy.

Edited by jakee

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15 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

15 boxes of Classified material on nuclear secrets, nuclear weapons. It sounds like trump was another Abdul Qadeer Khan with secrets to sell.

Sorry, but that narrative isn't allowed here. He would never keep stuff to sell, because he simply never thinks about how to make money off things. Certainly doesn't have a history doing that all.

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8 hours ago, jakee said:

But he has top security clearance anyway so what’s the problem!

Presidents don't keep a security clearance because they are never vetted for a security clearance. They get it by virtue of being elected. Past presidents may continue to get classified documents if the current president consents. Biden did not.

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(edited)
10 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

If you look at the bottom right of that clip you can see this is not from Fox News, but from CNN.

My mistake. There was a Fox clip I was trying to find on Youtube to post earlier, but couldn't find it. Then I found this one, but failed to notice the different network.

Edited by ryoder

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19 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Presidents don't keep a security clearance because they are never vetted for a security clearance. They get it by virtue of being elected. Past presidents may continue to get classified documents if the current president consents. Biden did not.

He was joking, caught me by surprise, too. Let's say for giggles it's true and he did have the nuclear stuff. Why? Surely he must have known it was illegal. You wouldn't do it unless you were being made to do it, seems to me.

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10 hours ago, obelixtim said:

There is going to be a serious outbreak of spinal fractures amongst the GOP sycophants, from the violent backflipping we will see if this is true. And being Trump, of course it will be true. I wonder how much he gave to his mate Vlad?

Apparently there is now little doubt Trump had nuclear documents. 

Screen Shot 2022-08-12 at 10.31.19 AM.png

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32 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

...Let's say for giggles it's true and he did have the nuclear stuff. Why? Surely he must have known it was illegal. You wouldn't do it unless you were being made to do it, seems to me.

Any attempt to rationalize behavior like this assumes there is some sort of logical reason at play, the sort of thinking that rational people apply when they are weighing potential risks and benefits.   With Trump, this is a futile exercise.  He has never acknowledged that any law constrains him, or applies to him in any way.  Considering his malignant narcissism, perhaps it just makes him feel as if he is still President to have this material in his possession.  Perhaps he is just pissed off at being told he isn't allowed to have it.  He is a child, an obnoxious spoiled brat who never grew up because he inherited enough wealth to escape any consequence of his pathological behavior.  What I find to be even more mysterious than his malignant behavior, is that so many people still support and even worship him.  Years from now psychology professors will make a career out of studying the contagious insanity that has gripped so much of the US, assuming of course the insanity hasn't sucked the whole world into Orwell's 1984.

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1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Presidents don't keep a security clearance because they are never vetted for a security clearance. They get it by virtue of being elected. Past presidents may continue to get classified documents if the current president consents. Biden did not.

I thought you Canucks were the ones who understood irony?

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2 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

Any attempt to rationalize behavior like this assumes there is some sort of logical reason at play, the sort of thinking that rational people apply when they are weighing potential risks and benefits.

Logical reasoning would dictate a person is likely to act the same way they have acted throughout their life.

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1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Sorry, but that narrative isn't allowed here. He would never keep stuff to sell, because he simply never thinks about how to make money off things. Certainly doesn't have a history doing that all.

Oh hey look, it’s the last word :rofl:

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(edited)
4 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

Any attempt to rationalize behavior like this assumes there is some sort of logical reason at play, the sort of thinking that rational people apply when they are weighing potential risks and benefits.   With Trump, this is a futile exercise.  He has never acknowledged that any law constrains him, or applies to him in any way.  Considering his malignant narcissism, perhaps it just makes him feel as if he is still President to have this material in his possession.  Perhaps he is just pissed off at being told he isn't allowed to have it.  He is a child, an obnoxious spoiled brat who never grew up because he inherited enough wealth to escape any consequence of his pathological behavior.  What I find to be even more mysterious than his malignant behavior, is that so many people still support and even worship him.  Years from now psychology professors will make a career out of studying the contagious insanity that has gripped so much of the US, assuming of course the insanity hasn't sucked the whole world into Orwell's 1984.

I'll buy the second half wholesale. But I also believe he would, after finally realizing he would not be president and immune to any prosecution, take bargaining chips that might secure a pied-à-terre at a nice dacha somewhere.

Edited by JoeWeber

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Just now, SkyDekker said:

Logical reasoning would dictate a person is likely to act the same way they have acted throughout their life.

Exactly. He has a sense of self preservation and he knows what plays well to the mob. Keeping them out of a combination of laziness, incompetence and spite is entirely in character and something he could have gotten away with. Being caught profiting off them is not. 
 

And again, if you applied the same standard of proof to this as you do to ‘what does he flush down his toilet’ then you’d be arguing against your own position as well.

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5 minutes ago, jakee said:

And again, if you applied the same standard of proof to this as you do to ‘what does he flush down his toilet’ then you’d be arguing against your own position as well.

The standard of proof is my own opinion, which is why the first time I brought this up I started the sentence with IMHO.

I thought you Brits understood how to read?

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9 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

The standard of proof is my own opinion, which is why the first time I brought this up I started the sentence with IMHO.

Having two contradictory opinions still means you are contradicting yourself.

I thought you would be capable of understanding that.

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In 2019 there were whistleblowers who were worried about how nuclear technology was sent to Saudi Arabia.

Since then Kushner has received $2 Billion from SA. And Trump has received $100s of millions for SA owned LIV golf tournaments at 2 of his properties.

Then we find out that after being asked for a year, plus being subpoenaed to return Top Secret information which may include nuclear information, Trump decided to hang on to it.

Doesn't seem overly odd to think Trump may have held on to that information to monetize it.

The pictures could maybe show an offense under the PRA.

The Mar-a-Lago documents would relate to the Espionage Act.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Doesn't seem overly odd to think Trump may have held on to that information to monetize it.

And it isn't overly odd to think otherwise, but for soe reason you seem really opposed to anyone saying that.

But please continue to demonstrate how much you want the last word.

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Hi folks,

I wonder just what is there that the GOP does not want the public to see:  Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee are asking the DOJ to give the committee, but not necessarily the public, information regarding the affidavit used to justify the search.

GOP displays split in tone on FBI’s Trump search | The Hill

Jerry Baumchen

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2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Apparently there is now little doubt Trump had nuclear documents. 

Screen Shot 2022-08-12 at 10.31.19 AM.png

From CNN:

"The National Archives pushed back Friday on former President Donald Trump’s unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor, former President Barrack Obama, “kept 33 million pages of documents, much of them classified” upon leaving office. 

“The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA),” NARA said in a statement.

“NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration,” the statement from National Archives said. 

Earlier Friday, Trump alleged that Obama not only kept classified records but that many of them are related to nuclear weapons. Trump made the claim after The Washington Post reported the FBI sought documents related to nuclear weapons when it searched his Mar-a-Lago residence this week. "

 

It's just exhausting, and infuriating, to deal with the constant stream of outright lies from Trump.  How do you deal with someone who lies about everything, all the time?  Even worse, people believe him to the point where they are literally willing to die to defend his lies.  I wish a meteorite would crush him or something, but that would just generate more conspiracy theories.  How long will it take this country to recover from his venomous existence?

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(edited)
23 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

From CNN:

"The National Archives pushed back Friday on former President Donald Trump’s unsubstantiated claim that his predecessor, former President Barrack Obama, “kept 33 million pages of documents, much of them classified” upon leaving office. 

“The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA),” NARA said in a statement.

“NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration,” the statement from National Archives said. 

Earlier Friday, Trump alleged that Obama not only kept classified records but that many of them are related to nuclear weapons. Trump made the claim after The Washington Post reported the FBI sought documents related to nuclear weapons when it searched his Mar-a-Lago residence this week. "

 

It's just exhausting, and infuriating, to deal with the constant stream of outright lies from Trump.  How do you deal with someone who lies about everything, all the time?  Even worse, people believe him to the point where they are literally willing to die to defend his lies.  I wish a meteorite would crush him or something, but that would just generate more conspiracy theories.  How long will it take this country to recover from his venomous existence?

Don,

We have people who post here who believe there is an equivalency between HRC's nothing burger and this democracy crushing debacle. I'd like for at least one of our correspondents to offer up at least a half hearted acceptance that Trump really is much worse than they thought when they pulled the lever. But no, they'll hang tight praying that it turns into hoax somehow attributable by News Max to the deep state. 

For the rest of us, here's the search warrant:

 

 

gov.uscourts.flsd.617854.17.0_7.pdf

Edited by JoeWeber
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I wonder how many intelligence agents working for the US in foreign countries are now exposed by this clown. Mar a Lardo would not be exactly difficult for one of Vlads people to infiltrate and get their hands on these documents, especially the sigint ones. A Chinese spy was caught there recently. Reverse engineer the info and it wouldn't be difficult to expose the sources. A few Russian scientists have recently been arrested for treason (hypersonic weapons), could this be a result? How many have had their lives and liberty threatened? You just know Trump would have been big noting to his visitors about stuff he has. He has form for that. There will be panic in quite a few agencies around the world right now. Putins poodle. He should be arrested immediately. Its a pity this criminal can only be jailed once.     

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1 hour ago, obelixtim said:

I wonder how many intelligence agents working for the US in foreign countries are now exposed by this clown. Mar a Lardo would not be exactly difficult for one of Vlads people to infiltrate and get their hands on these documents, especially the sigint ones. A Chinese spy was caught there recently. Reverse engineer the info and it wouldn't be difficult to expose the sources. A few Russian scientists have recently been arrested for treason (hypersonic weapons), could this be a result? How many have had their lives and liberty threatened? You just know Trump would have been big noting to his visitors about stuff he has. He has form for that. There will be panic in quite a few agencies around the world right now. Putins poodle. He should be arrested immediately. Its a pity this criminal can only be jailed once.     

Appreciate your support. For now, however, please join us in fervently hoping for his first jailing.

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(edited)
On 8/12/2022 at 8:04 AM, obelixtim said:

There is going to be a serious outbreak of spinal fractures amongst the GOP sycophants, from the violent backflipping we will see if this is true. 

Just to reinforce a point on this - one of the current Fox excuses is to blame the FBI… for Trump having the documents in his possession at all.
 

“They should never have lost track of them in the first place!” Ignoring the fact that Trump simply took them.

”They should have taken them back when they visited his house before!” Ignoring the fact that you can’t seize things from someone’s home without a warrant.

”They should have just asked for them back!” Ignoring the fact that they were subpoenaed months ago And still withheld by Trump. 
 

These are the new right wing politics. When the facts against your guy are too bad to be excused, you simply change the facts.

Edited by jakee

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