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Phil1111

President Biden, critics corner

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Some facts on the Plan from the NYT (Sept 2021 data), Education Date Initiative (July 2022 data)

- applies to certain federal student loan debt, opened prior to June 30, 2022. Private loans and many of the Federal Family Education Loans aren't eligible.

: single earning less than $125k qualify for $10 in debt cancellation, married the threshold is $250k

- if one received a Pell grant the amount is increased to $20k

- current estimates are that about 8 million may be eligible, 32% owe less than $10k

- the funds are not taxable

- the loan servicer will not automatically reduce the monthly loan repayment based on the reduction in loan value. Many of the repayment plans are driven by income so the monthly payment would not change.

- $1.6 trillion is public and private student loans, 43 billion borrowers, 92% is federal debt, average of $38k per borrower (other sources state $28k), about 55% leave school with debt

Federal student loans can be used for tuition, books, transportation, gas, computer, housing, groceries and general living expenses. The tuition and fees funds are generally sent to the school. Any remaining balance is sent to the student.

IMO, one issue is lack of accountability on how the funds are spent.

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics

 

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43 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

I was just doing some reading, and the average student loan debt for recent graduates with debt is a little under $30,000. So forgiving $10,000 is significant, and for lower-income, forgiving twice that is very significant.

And yes, that covers federal student loans for any course of studies — library science (BTW there are TONS of libraries in the north; way more than in the South, so it’s a real job), auto mechanics, computer science, beauty school.

I’m for it. It’s not perfect, but it’s high on the list of improving, making it possible for more people to get ahead.

Wendy P. 

But not only is it not equitable it is fundamentally unfair to those who paid off their $30K. Also, if that number is real then there really isn't a huge problem; $30K isn't money these day's. If something just absolutely needed to be done by executive order then maybe the government could have assumed all of the notes and stopped all interest as long as a basic payment tied to current earnings were made. Regardless of the vehicle anyone who did pay off their notes should get a tax credit of some construct. That or not do anything while a fairer solution is crafted.

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Trump, the self-proclaimed billionaire, had $270 MILLION in debt forgiven after he reneged on his loans for real estate.  His lenders would have taken that as a loss meaning other taxpayers had to make up the burden.

 

And the hypocrite criticizes $10k in debt forgiveness for the middle class.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-taxes-debt-forgiven-chicago-tower-nyt-fail-repay-lenders-2020-10

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15 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

How which funds are spent?

I'm going to guess that he means the student can spend 'student loan' money on anything
I don't entirely disagree with that concept, but I think the resources needed for oversight on that sort of thing would outweigh any gains by a significant amount.

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(edited)
59 minutes ago, kallend said:

Trump, the self-proclaimed billionaire, had $270 MILLION in debt forgiven after he reneged on his loans for real estate.  His lenders would have taken that as a loss meaning other taxpayers had to make up the burden.

 

And the hypocrite criticizes $10k in debt forgiveness for the middle class.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-taxes-debt-forgiven-chicago-tower-nyt-fail-repay-lenders-2020-10

Well actually "a big bank and a hedge fund granted years of extra time to pay back his debts" Wrote off the debts and used those losses as deductions. So the bank and hedge fund passed those losses onto shareholders.

But to your point. trump in one single bankruptcy proceeding for his two casinos. He had several bankruptcies for the same two buildings. The state of NJ and Atlantic City lost $27 million in taxes. Trump Casinos’ Tax Debt Was $30 Million. Then Christie Took Office.

In that same bankruptcy his employees lost tens of millions in pensions that trump spent on operations. In total the city and state had estimated losses of $75 million. a total of $1.2 billion vanished over the two decades that trump mismanaged operations.

Edited by Phil1111

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13 hours ago, billvon said:

Get Out The Vote is not vote-buying.

Yep.  Just as having a child deduction, or having the GI bill, or having public roads, shifts money from one group to another.

I'm one of those.  I am not upset, since I think a more educated populace is critical both to the future economy of the United States and democracy in general.

Sort of like how we give free education to veterans?  Or is that OK because you like veterans?

Veterans don’t get a ‘free’ education anymore than you get free money for the work you do.  

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12 hours ago, kallend said:

Trump, the self-proclaimed billionaire, had $270 MILLION in debt forgiven after he reneged on his loans for real estate.  His lenders would have taken that as a loss meaning other taxpayers had to make up the burden.

 

And the hypocrite criticizes $10k in debt forgiveness for the middle class.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-taxes-debt-forgiven-chicago-tower-nyt-fail-repay-lenders-2020-10

Oh, I'd say he knows sleaze when he sees it.  He is rather an expert.

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On 8/25/2022 at 9:01 AM, Phil1111 said:

More money should be spent on community colleges. They are a tremendous value to a nations economy.

First, IMHO, more money should be spent (and spent better) on secondary education.

Regarding the debt reduction -- I listened to a podcast this morning that covered some other details not found in MSM reporting (from any side).  For the full podcast, check out Opening Arguments #625.  What I found interesting is 1) the cost of college tuition has tripled in the past 40 years, and 2) the reason for that increase is mostly the fault of legislators who wanted to cut budgets.

How?  because state schools used to benefit from about $100 mil annually.  Eventually, someone had the bright idea to stop paying FOR things at the schools, and give the money as discretionary spending to the states, to decide on their own how to apply the funds to state schools.  Further along, since it was just a bunch of money being allocated to states, it was cut in half, then nearly eradicated over the course of several years as part of budget cuts.  (that is a super simplified synopsis of course)

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On 8/25/2022 at 8:48 AM, billeisele said:

If one made their last loan payment yesterday they get nothing.

Not the way I heard it.  If you paid during the pandemic, while payments were suspended, you can get that money back (again, as the way the above podcaster relayed it).

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1 minute ago, TriGirl said:

Not the way I heard it.  If you paid during the pandemic, while payments were suspended, you can get that money back (again, as the way the above podcaster relayed it).

Something like that but it ain't much or many. I agree with you on secondary school, absolutely, but I am convinced that junior college designed to be accessible to adults with needs is the single most valuable investment we can make.

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2 minutes ago, TriGirl said:

Not the way I heard it.  If you paid during the pandemic, while payments were suspended, you can get that money back (again, as the way the above podcaster relayed it).

I think that is true.  Biden's order is based in the HEROs Act, which gives the government authority to forgive educational debt, but it must be tied to some specific conditions or a national emergency.  For example there has been a debt forgiveness program for some time for people who agree to work in lower paying public service jobs, and for teachers.  Of course Betsy DeVos did her best to make sure no-one could actually benefit from those programs, and left a big mess to fix.  In this case, Covid was declared a national emergency by Trump and that was extended by Biden, and the current loan forgiveness is being linked to that national emergency.

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7 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

I think that is true.  Biden's order is based in the HEROs Act, which gives the government authority to forgive educational debt, but it must be tied to some specific conditions or a national emergency.  For example there has been a debt forgiveness program for some time for people who agree to work in lower paying public service jobs, and for teachers.  Of course Betsy DeVos did her best to make sure no-one could actually benefit from those programs, and left a big mess to fix.  In this case, Covid was declared a national emergency by Trump and that was extended by Biden, and the current loan forgiveness is being linked to that national emergency.

yep -- my sister was one of those.  Got just a BA from a state school, and 16 years later still owes about $20k.  She came to Florida and ended up teaching at a special needs charter school for many years, so she has applied several times for the loan forgiveness under that program.  It has been denied each time either with no explanation, or a reason that was clearly not true based on the supporting evidence provided. 

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Biden's approval rating is jumping up hard and fast according to a Gallup poll.

"At 44%, Biden’s approval rating is now higher than the approval ratings of Donald Trump (41%), Barack Obama (43%), Bill Clinton (39%), Jimmy Carter (43%), and Ronald Reagan (41%) at this point in their presidencies."

The 44% does not include the debt forgiveness decision. The hoped for blue wave may not be just a pipe dream, after all.

 

 

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I may have missed it, but I'm surprised that more mention isn't being made about the second part of the bill - so long as you are making your minimum repayments, no interest will accrue on the balance any more.

By all accounts that's the most crippling part of student loan debt, people starting with a balance of 100k or whatever, diligently paying off 50k over many years, and still having a 100k balance sitting there, forever growing.

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It takes a ton of screw up for El Pres to have the mainstream media chastising him but he did it with his latest stunt.

President Joe Biden received backlash from corporate news reporters on Thursday night after he delivered a polarizing campaign-style speech flanked by two U.S. Marines.

During the speech, the president attacked tens of millions of people who voted for former President Donald Trump, describing them as extremists.

“Whatever you think of this speech the military is supposed to be apolitical,” CNN host Brianna Keilar, whose husband serves in U.S. Army, wrote on Twitter. “Positioning Marines in uniform behind President Biden for a political speech flies in the face of that. It’s wrong when Democrats do it. It’s wrong when Republicans do it.”

CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny wrote that “there’s nothing unusual or wrong with a President delivering a political speech — it’s inherent in the job description — but doing it against a backdrop of two Marines standing at attention and the Marine Band is a break with White House traditions.”

“The Marines behind Biden was weird,” ABC News producer Jeffrey Cook wrote. “If Trump did that, every Dem operative I follow would be freaking the [expletive] out.”

CBS News Senior White House correspondent Ed O’Keefe noted the unusual optics.

“Everytime I think Biden and crew can’t be dumber they outdo themselves,” Barstool Sports chief executive Dave Portnoy wrote. “Seriously who gives a speech warning people about how dangerous Republicans are to Democracy while having a background that looks like the Soviet Union and Hitler had a baby?”

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15 minutes ago, billeisele said:

It takes a ton of screw up for El Pres to have the mainstream media chastising him but he did it with his latest stunt.

President Joe Biden received backlash from corporate news reporters on Thursday night after he delivered a polarizing campaign-style speech flanked by two U.S. Marines.

During the speech, the president attacked tens of millions of people who voted for former President Donald Trump, describing them as extremists.

“Whatever you think of this speech the military is supposed to be apolitical,” CNN host Brianna Keilar, whose husband serves in U.S. Army, wrote on Twitter. “Positioning Marines in uniform behind President Biden for a political speech flies in the face of that. It’s wrong when Democrats do it. It’s wrong when Republicans do it.”

CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny wrote that “there’s nothing unusual or wrong with a President delivering a political speech — it’s inherent in the job description — but doing it against a backdrop of two Marines standing at attention and the Marine Band is a break with White House traditions.”

“The Marines behind Biden was weird,” ABC News producer Jeffrey Cook wrote. “If Trump did that, every Dem operative I follow would be freaking the [expletive] out.”

CBS News Senior White House correspondent Ed O’Keefe noted the unusual optics.

“Everytime I think Biden and crew can’t be dumber they outdo themselves,” Barstool Sports chief executive Dave Portnoy wrote. “Seriously who gives a speech warning people about how dangerous Republicans are to Democracy while having a background that looks like the Soviet Union and Hitler had a baby?”

No kidding. He should have done it after flying Peter Pilot onto an aircraft carrier with a Mission not Accomplished sign behind him on the super structure.

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25 minutes ago, billeisele said:

“Whatever you think of this speech the military is supposed to be apolitical,” CNN host Brianna Keilar, whose husband serves in U.S. Army, wrote on Twitter. “Positioning Marines in uniform behind President Biden for a political speech flies in the face of that. It’s wrong when Democrats do it. It’s wrong when Republicans do it.”

CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny wrote that “there’s nothing unusual or wrong with a President delivering a political speech — it’s inherent in the job description — but doing it against a backdrop of two Marines standing at attention and the Marine Band is a break with White House traditions.”

“The Marines behind Biden was weird,” ABC News producer Jeffrey Cook wrote. “If Trump did that, every Dem operative I follow would be freaking the [expletive] out.”

Riiiggghhhttt....

But don't settle for a photo, you can watch the actual video here:

NYT: After Trump Accuses Four Democratic Congresswomen of Hating U.S., They Fire Back

 

Screen Shot 2022-09-02 at 20.27.07.png

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15 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Riiiggghhhttt....

But don't settle for a photo, you can watch the actual video here:

NYT: After Trump Accuses Four Democratic Congresswomen of Hating U.S., They Fire Back

 

Screen Shot 2022-09-02 at 20.27.07.png

I'll bet that cheeky Biden, or preferably the more Mexican Immigrant sounding "El Pres" for short, puts his Birkenstock clad feet on the Resolute Desk, too! 

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1 hour ago, billeisele said:

It takes a ton of screw up for El Pres to have the mainstream media chastising him but he did it with his latest stunt.

President Joe Biden received backlash from corporate news reporters on Thursday night after he delivered a polarizing campaign-style speech flanked by two U.S. Marines.

During the speech, the president attacked tens of millions of people who voted for former President Donald Trump, describing them as extremists.

“Whatever you think of this speech the military is supposed to be apolitical,” CNN host Brianna Keilar, whose husband serves in U.S. Army, wrote on Twitter. “Positioning Marines in uniform behind President Biden for a political speech flies in the face of that. It’s wrong when Democrats do it. It’s wrong when Republicans do it.”

CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny wrote that “there’s nothing unusual or wrong with a President delivering a political speech — it’s inherent in the job description — but doing it against a backdrop of two Marines standing at attention and the Marine Band is a break with White House traditions.”

“The Marines behind Biden was weird,” ABC News producer Jeffrey Cook wrote. “If Trump did that, every Dem operative I follow would be freaking the [expletive] out.”

CBS News Senior White House correspondent Ed O’Keefe noted the unusual optics.

“Everytime I think Biden and crew can’t be dumber they outdo themselves,” Barstool Sports chief executive Dave Portnoy wrote. “Seriously who gives a speech warning people about how dangerous Republicans are to Democracy while having a background that looks like the Soviet Union and Hitler had a baby?”

Hi Bill,

Once again, you use the old, 'Hey, look over here,' gambit, so well liked when that is all you got.

IMO it's getting kinda old.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Uh oh, it looks like Trump did it first.  Or, does that not count?

 

Edited by JerryBaumchen
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4 hours ago, billeisele said:

 

“Everytime I think Biden and crew can’t be dumber they outdo themselves,” Barstool Sports chief executive Dave Portnoy wrote. “Seriously who gives a speech warning people about how dangerous Republicans are to Democracy while having a background that looks like the Soviet Union and Hitler had a baby?”

You think the US military has overtones of both Stalinism and the Nazis? To be honest Bill, that’s your deal. I don’t think you’re going to find many who agree with you.

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