billvon 2,400 #976 May 4, 2021 20 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Please also tell us your enforcement plan . . . . I have a simpler plan. Everyone is welcome. Everyone gets a biometric scan at the border. No crimes on record? Come on in. You can even have an ITIN if you want to work. If you are not a citizen, you get taxed at the maximum marginal rate. But you can get most of that money back (at the same rates paid by any worker in the US) at the US embassy at your home country. Just show up, and if your biometrics match, you get your money back. And if you do want to apply to become a citizen? Your record of paying taxes is taken into account, as is your work history. This gets almost all border crossers coming in through legal checkpoints, and makes hunting down the (fewer) criminals who want to bypass those much easier. If you don't even want to do that? Well, you can get around the checkpoints, probably. But if any employer employs you and you do NOT have an ITIN, then they go to jail for a long time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #977 May 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, billvon said: You can even have an ITIN if you want to work . . . But if any employer employs you and you do NOT have an ITIN, So, you're not opposed to everyone having an ID. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #978 May 4, 2021 1 minute ago, BIGUN said: So, you're not opposed to everyone having an ID. I can tell you I'm not opposed. Who cares? They already know our locations, can read our encrypted communications, and know what we're buying and when. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #979 May 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, BIGUN said: So, you're not opposed to everyone having an ID. Nope. Everyone has a name now. And pretty much everyone everywhere has some other ID associated with them - a phone #, an address, a SS#, an email address. This is just one more. You don't even need to get it if you don't want to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #980 May 4, 2021 1 hour ago, BIGUN said: So, you're not opposed to everyone having an ID. Hi Keith, And neither am I. I already carry plenty. Jerry Baumchen 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #981 May 4, 2021 1 hour ago, JoeWeber said: I can tell you I'm not opposed. Who cares? Those that have opposed an ID for voting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #982 May 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, BIGUN said: Those that have opposed an ID for voting. I'm not opposed to needing an ID for voting, either. With mail in voting the voter has bags of time to get properly registered and identified. It's when voting is only between a few hours and, after standing in line for hours, you find you left it at home so are unable to vote that is an offense against democracy. Give everyone lot's of time and a system that isn't designed to exclude certain folks and no one should have a bitch. Well, except our right wing friends, as ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #983 May 4, 2021 36 minutes ago, BIGUN said: Those that have opposed an ID for voting. I think you have to have an ITIN to work. You do not have to CARRY your ITIN to work. You have to be registered to vote. You do not have to CARRY your registration to vote. In fact as time goes on more and more ID will be biometric/password based, and thus even the need to carry things like credit cards will decline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #984 May 4, 2021 1 hour ago, BIGUN said: Those that have opposed an ID for voting. If the state requires an ID to exercise a right, then the state should provide it free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 61 #985 May 4, 2021 The other key point that developed Western countries need to take into account when attempting to reduce immigration is their propensity to interfere in other countries for political or economic reasons. Either we directly interfere by using troops for dubious reasons or we supply arms, ammunition and/or "advisers" to dubious regimes to support them because they're prepared to sell us needed natural resources. If we stop turning, or helping to turn, other people's countries into shitholes then maybe less of their citizens will feel the need to move from their own homes. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #986 May 4, 2021 5 hours ago, JoeWeber said: I'm not opposed to needing an ID for voting, either. With mail in voting the voter has bags of time to get properly registered and identified. Agreed. 5 hours ago, JoeWeber said: It's when voting is only between a few hours and, after standing in line for hours, you find you left it at home so are unable to vote that is an offense against democracy. It's democracy's fault, you left your ID at home? If I go to the DZ and forgot my pay card; will they let me jump? 5 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Give everyone lot's of time and a system that isn't designed to exclude certain folks and no one should have a bitch. No argument. 5 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Well, except our right wing friends, as ever. Well, except you're saying the same thing as the right wing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #987 May 4, 2021 4 hours ago, billvon said: I think you have to have an ITIN to work. You do not have to CARRY your ITIN to work. One needs a passport and/or DL to get an ITIN and employers require you bring your ITIN or SSN card to work the first day, so they can check your status. 4 hours ago, billvon said: You do not have to CARRY your registration to vote. I think that's state dependent - I have to have my card or a government issued ID to vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #988 May 4, 2021 3 hours ago, kallend said: If the state requires an ID to exercise a right, then the state should provide it free. No argument. Some states have a free or reduction of fee for various reasons. Income, disability, age, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #989 May 4, 2021 One of the problems with ID is that older people, who have never needed it, can have a hard time getting it. Because birth certificates aren’t always easy to get (country people born at home, poor and living in a series of places), and getting ID when you haven’t had it in a long time is a lot harder. I used to volunteer with homeless in Houston, and sometimes I’d bring someone to the “recover ID” charity. It wasn’t easy, and it wasn’t fast. They knew how to do the research — it’s much harder if you’re trying it on your own. As time advances, this’ll probably be less of a problem, simply because we’re generally more regimented. But it’s definitely a problem now, and yes, the political movers and shakers know that it’s poor people who are less likely to have ID, and who are more likely to vote liberal Wendy P. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #990 May 4, 2021 8 hours ago, BIGUN said: So, you're not opposed to everyone having an ID. Your papers, your papers please, (in a slight German accent) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #991 May 5, 2021 On 5/4/2021 at 6:48 PM, BIGUN said: Agreed. It's democracy's fault, you left your ID at home? If I go to the DZ and forgot my pay card; will they let me jump? No argument. Well, except you're saying the same thing as the right wing. Yes, I will let you jump. I have no choice. It's either let you jump or risk upsetting my delicate balance of 50% stomach and 50% ulcer as I listen to whatever horse shit story you planned to tell and don't realize I've heard a thousand times. Yes, I am saying right wing things. In truth, I'm a pretty shitty liberal. In this case, however, I depart when it comes to imposing unnecessary and intentional limits on certain communities. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #992 May 6, 2021 On 5/4/2021 at 5:48 PM, BIGUN said: Agreed. It's democracy's fault, you left your ID at home? If I go to the DZ and forgot my pay card; will they let me jump? Well, except you're saying the same thing as the right wing. When did skydiving become a fundamental right? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #993 May 6, 2021 41 minutes ago, kallend said: When did skydiving become a fundamental right? One needs an id to exercise ones 2nd amendment fundamental right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #994 May 6, 2021 4 hours ago, kallend said: When did skydiving become a fundamental right? It's in the skydiver's information manual. On that note, have you seen the hoops one has to jump thru to get the new upcoming mandatory Real ID? That's going to be a burden on most; not just the poor. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #995 May 6, 2021 4 hours ago, kallend said: When did skydiving become a fundamental right? When the first board jumper mashed someones hand hopping to the door and wasn't murdered later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #996 May 6, 2021 15 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Yes, I will let you jump. I have no choice. It's either let you jump or risk upsetting my delicate balance of 50% stomach and 50% ulcer as I listen to whatever horse shit story you planned to tell and don't realize I've heard a thousand times. Wow. Joe's in a mood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #997 May 6, 2021 On 5/4/2021 at 3:51 PM, BIGUN said: One needs a passport and/or DL to get an ITIN and employers require you bring your ITIN or SSN card to work the first day, so they can check your status. I've been working since 1980, in at least a dozen different jobs from laborer at a county park to principal scientist at a startup. Not once have I been asked for my SS card. Seems to have worked out OK. (And no, you don't need a passport or driver's license to get an ITIN. They will accept almost any ID at all, including foreign medical records or any ID from their country of origin as long as it lists their name, date of birth etc.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #998 May 6, 2021 1 minute ago, billvon said: Not once have I been asked for my SS card. Seems to have worked out OK. Example of white privilege? I had to bring the ID's required on the I-9 form. 8 minutes ago, billvon said: (And no, you don't need a passport or driver's license to get an ITIN. They will accept almost any ID at all, including foreign medical records or any ID from their country of origin as long as it lists their name, date of birth etc.) You have to bring what they list in box 6 of the W-7 form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #999 May 6, 2021 43 minutes ago, BIGUN said: Wow. Joe's in a mood. I meant a metaphorical you. Probably didn't know you had one. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 307 #1000 May 6, 2021 7 hours ago, BIGUN said: You have to bring what they list in box 6 of the W-7 form. you have to bring what they ask for. if they don't ask for the social security card, you can write down whatever you want, and for a 1099 worker, that means no filing tax returns to pay the money to the govt. has happened many times that i personally know of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites