BMAC615 205 #26 April 28, 2021 9 hours ago, nwt said: Just that it happened shortly after and seemed very rushed. There was very little time between when any flyers were informed of the change and when it went into effect. The software and processes were buggy and they've been very strict. They've now made a second wave of restrictions with this ban on coaching, which further makes it seem like they're reacting quickly vs. planning. I didn't see this injury happen, but I heard that unofficial coaching may have been a factor. It seems to fit. It's the best explanation I've heard so far, but if you think you have a better one, I'll listen. You might be right, but, it’s all speculation at this point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nwt 131 #27 April 28, 2021 2 hours ago, BMAC615 said: You might be right, but, it’s all speculation at this point. Yes, it is. Sorry if I made it sound like I had inside info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
20kN 93 #28 April 29, 2021 On 4/26/2021 at 8:30 AM, BMAC615 said: A lot of us will pay whatever they set the price at because the only other option is flying to Sweden. Well maybe you will--I wont. I wouldent be surprised if this tunnel is over $1500 an hour and to me no tunnel is worth that. I wouldent spend that to fly in the NASA wind tunnel. I think a lot of people are saying they will be going, but once they see that they will end up burning thousands of dollars before lunch in one session, then the reality will set in that it's probably not worth that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMAC615 205 #29 April 29, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, 20kN said: Well maybe you will--I wont. I wouldent be surprised if this tunnel is over $1500 an hour and to me no tunnel is worth that. I wouldent spend that to fly in the NASA wind tunnel. I think a lot of people are saying they will be going, but once they see that they will end up burning thousands of dollars before lunch in one session, then the reality will set in that it's probably not worth that. Well, the alternatives to one hour in the US WS tunnel are to spend $1500 for 60 WS skydives over 10 days or spend $1k in travel to fly to Sweden and another $1500 an hour in that tunnel. For training purposes, I’d say $1500 per hour of tunnel time with world-class coaches is a bargain. Edited April 29, 2021 by BMAC615 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
20kN 93 #30 April 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, BMAC615 said: Well, the alternatives to one hour in the US WS tunnel are to spend $1500 for 60 WS skydives over 10 days or spend $1k in travel to fly to Sweden and another $1500 an hour in that tunnel. For training purposes, I’d say $1500 per hour of tunnel time with world-class coaches is a bargain. I would take 60 WS skydives over a morning in the tunnel any day of the week. I am sure some people will spend loads there, but in the reality is WS is a fringe in what is already an uncommon sport. WS is one of the least common disciplines in skydiving, and WS to the extent that you're willing to spend money to train in a tunnel is an uncommon level of dedication to an uncommon subspecality of an already uncommon sport. If they are banking on skydivers to keep them afloat, I think they may be disappointed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMAC615 205 #31 April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, 20kN said: I would take 60 WS skydives over a morning in the tunnel any day of the week. I am sure some people will spend loads there, but in the reality is WS is a fringe in what is already an uncommon sport. WS is one of the least common disciplines in skydiving, and WS to the extent that you're willing to spend money to train in a tunnel is an uncommon level of dedication to an uncommon subspecality of an already uncommon sport. If they are banking on skydivers to keep them afloat, I think they may be disappointed. You might be right. Or, this might make it more common. We’ll see. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #32 May 3, 2021 (edited) Quote travel to fly to Sweden and another $1500 an hour in that tunnel. That is around 150% of the actual price of flying (including coaching). Sadly the tunnel is steeply priced, but the quoted numbers here are around $500 per hour more than reality. 40 minutes per day is also roughly the max what most customers can handle. Flying 90 minutes during 'a morning in the tunnel' is something Id be keen to see. The skill, precision and progress achieved in an hour of coached flying ($1000 +-) would get you only 20 coached skydives (2 slots) if you are actually getting the coach for free. Seeing most coaches charge around 250$ for a day, you'd be looking at 15 very rushed jumps, if you match that budget of 1000$ with a lot of things not possible to match in skydiving with regards to speed of learning in the tunnel. Looking at a realistic day in the tunnel being 30 or 40 minutes of flying, you would equal only about 6 or so coached 1on 1 WS skydives on the same budget. But I would love to jump at the dropzone where Id get 60 x 2 slots for that price and a coach for free. Nobody is forcing you to go to a WS tunnel, but thinking you get more progression out of 60 solo skydives, is perhaps also a tad too optimistic. A bit of tunnel and a lot of skydives are a more optimal combination. Quote WS is one of the least common disciplines in skydiving Depending on the dropzone you go to, perhaps also not an accurate reflection of reality. I have no insight in bookings beyond our own, but we're coaching at indoor wingsuit through our own team, only one week a month (8 to 10 camps per year) and so far are always fully booked/sold out, flying around 30 hours of customers per camp. The views on wingsuit flying as a group of people with no goals in skill or competitive disciplines is something of quite a few years ago, and we're seeing many teams and individuals with a similar drive as often visible in freefly / tunnel who are coming back to the tunnel for multiple visits a year. As young as the tunnel in Sweden is, just looking at our pool of customers (our = just one of several freelancers) we have a large group of people who are pushing beyond 20 hours of flying, and still learning and eager for more. It's a steep price, around 900$ for the time without coaching, which I also wish would come down. But proflyers are a good share of the market. The first time experience there also seems to always be a positive one (not something I/we offer, but we do see a lot of them coming through the tunnel and loving it), so for sure there is a lot of potential there with the right marketing. Youtube and WS base have created a big monster in terms of interest, which can be used for sure to promote and pull (first timer) customers in... Edited May 3, 2021 by mccordia 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMAC615 205 #33 May 3, 2021 Travel restrictions have been the only thing keeping me from traveling to the IWT in Sweden and doing a camp w/ Jarno. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
