Lefties and lockdowns

[Westerly 61]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

Oh and you think because you found a few reports of this happening at one pharmacy, that means it happens at all vaccine facilities.

 

Brilliant.

More like I found hundreds of reports of them happening in dozens of states. You'd know that if you actually bothered to read them.

[nwt 131]

3 minutes ago, Westerly said:

Name any pharmacy that gives out 100k does a day. That is ridiculous. Most pharmacies do like 100 a day. So yea, when like a dozen or more doses end up in the trash in a day where only 100 were administered, that is not insignificant. 

We are averaging about 1.3 million doses administered in the US per day.

[billvon 2,379]

26 minutes ago, Westerly said:

Yea, they are basically the same thing in this context. I said it is happening, he said it is not

You are lying.  Dishonesty is not the best way to try to make your point.

[brenthutch 383]

2 hours ago, nwt said:

We are averaging about 1.3 million doses administered in the US per day.

Thanks to Trump and operation Warp Speed.

[kallend 1,618]

23 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Thanks to Trump and operation Warp Speed.

Next you'll tell us that Mexico paid for the wall.

[sfzombie13 307]

12 hours ago, Westerly said:

Here is your source. if you dident find any sources, it was because you dident look...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/health/covid-19-vaccine-unused/index.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/thousands-covid-19-vaccines-wind-garbage-because-fed-state-guidelines-n1254364

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/10/nyregion/new-york-vaccine-guidelines.html

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/maricopa-county-had-to-throw-away-more-than-500-doses-of-covid-19-vaccine/article_7cdf6c5e-6577-11eb-a136-cf731ccb8231.html

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/1100-doses-of-the-covid-19-vaccine-thrown-away-statewide/275-daba61ea-c657-4d4f-85c9-5ae2722b4a3e

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-county-tells-health-care-providers-not-to-throw-away-unused-covid-19-vaccine-doses/

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/walgreens-confirms-it-had-to-throw-out-vials-of-unused-vials-of-covid-19-vaccine/530-5aeda34d-400d-42af-9598-3f91de5f3977





Also, how exactly do you think people under 60 who are not front line workers are getting the vaccination? I know four people who are under 35 with no health conditions who got it. They got it because they show up at the end of the day to random pharmacies and hope they have left over doses that are going to be discarded. They found it was not that hard to get when I asked them about it.

hard to begin to address this post, since most of it is bullshit, and the rest is fud.  you can really tell who watched fox and who listens to real news by the way they tell the stories they hear.  i had a few minutes to spare, so went through every link here, and one is posed as an example of vaccines thrown out while the article says none were wasted at all.  one shows less than 0.1% waste, which is amazing for something with such strict restrictions on temperature.  most of the rest address a problem with a solution already in place, mainly due to the press of it happening at all.  one actually uses an ESTIMATE from 2015 as the basis for vaccines getting thrown out.  that takes care of the "sources". 

i really want to write something, but i kind of like reading these forums daily and don't want to get banned for calling you out, so i will stick to addressing the other point you tried to make.  you see a problem, so what do you do?  talk to someone who has authority to make something happen?  no, that is what leaders, smart folks, and people who care about others do, and from what i can tell, you don't fit in those categories.  it isn't really that hard to figure out how to solve this one, and it is by using some of the ideas in some of the articles you posted.  yeah, they are already doing it most places, and you would have known that had you read what you posted.  maybe you did and hoped nobody else would, since one actually refutes your position.  probably not though. 

tell ya what, why don't you make a few phone calls to some folks in the health department where you live and start finding out if it's true, and ask what types of protections they have in place to prevent waste.  someone should talk to you, but they may be busy.  and i guarantee you that if you use the type of language you use here, they will hang up on you.  try to be a little charming, almost flirty, and do not start off accusing anyone of anything.  it is a little concerning that some vaccine doses are going to waste, but if you look at supply logistics, you will see that nothing is ever going to be zero waste, especially anything which requires refrigeration at that temperature after being mishandled and almost sabotaged for over a month.  don't worry though, daddy joe is here to make everything better for you.  all you gotta do is lie there quietly, and close your eyes.  try to find your happy place, and don't whimper too much.

[brenthutch 383]

8 hours ago, kallend said:

Next you'll tell us that Mexico paid for the wall.

Biden is going to thank Trump for that wall very soon 

“On Friday night, about 2,000 members of the caravan pushed past Guatemalan authorities and entered Guatemala without showing documentation or negative COVID screenings, the Associated Press reported. The caravan may arrive at the U.S. border in the coming weeks.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/incoming-biden-administration-migrant-caravan-don-t-come-you-won-n1254550

Notice the source is NBC, not FOX.

BTW there is talk of renaming the border barrier. From a mean, nasty wall to a friendly fence.

[sfzombie13 307]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

Biden is going to thank Trump for that wall very soon 

“On Friday night, about 2,000 members of the caravan pushed past Guatemalan authorities and entered Guatemala without showing documentation or negative COVID screenings, the Associated Press reported. The caravan may arrive at the U.S. border in the coming weeks.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/incoming-biden-administration-migrant-caravan-don-t-come-you-won-n1254550

Notice the source is NBC, not FOX.

BTW there is talk of renaming the border barrier. From a mean, nasty wall to a friendly fence.

i recall the last caravan they spouted on about, turned out nothing then as well from what i recall.  nice try, comrade.

[brenthutch 383]

19 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

i recall the last caravan they spouted on about, turned out nothing then as well from what i recall.  nice try, comrade.

There are 60,000+ at the Mexican border waiting for Biden to tear down the wall.

[BIGUN 1,042]

Great. Three pages of a camel-spitting contest. 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

5 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Great. Three pages of a camel-spitting contest. 

And you think that Keynesian economics was produced how? I'm just waiting to get a word in about my pet goldfish.

[Phil1111 901]

On 2/2/2021 at 6:26 PM, brenthutch said:

 I was trying to cut and paste the NYT graph but all I got was a square flag 

Are you sure thats not the flag you 1/2 wore out from waving it so much while trying to make your arguments?

[billvon 2,379]

7 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Biden is going to thank Trump for that wall very soon 

Perhaps you could head down there and post some signs to direct them to the ~40 miles of new wall Trump built.  It would certainly be embarrassing for you if they arrived at the thousand miles or so where he failed to build anything!

[jakee 1,254]

On 2/1/2021 at 3:44 PM, brenthutch said:

Vaccination is how “herd immunity” is achieved.......(face palm)

You're being dishonest and slimy again.

You said either through vaccines or exposure, while you were arguing against lockdowns. Since without intrusive NPIs and lockdowns the pandemic would have been far more widespread even than it is now, you have been advocating for us to try and achieve herd immunity without vaccination simply by letting anyone and everyone be infected and screw the death toll.

That is what you were arguing, and to try and say now 'oh I only meant herd immunity through vaccination' is clear and obvious bullshit.

[jakee 1,254]

22 hours ago, Westerly said:

 Something that is 'almost nonexistent' would not yield countless articles of occurance in a lackadaisical 60 second google search, nor would it yield me personally knowing 4 people who got the vaccination for that exact reason. It's happening fairly frequently.

You know 4 people who found the vaccine in the trash and somehow administered it to themselves?

[Westerly 61]

5 minutes ago, jakee said:

You know 4 people who found the vaccine in the trash and somehow administered it to themselves?

No, four people who were able to get a shot last minute because the vaccine was going to be discarded otherwise. Despite everyone's belief on here otherwise, this is common. That list of four people is now six. Two other people I know got it last night by hanging out at a grocery store pharmacy waiting for excess doses to be wasted to get them. They were successful. I am not 100% sure, but I think the problem is some people don't make it to their appointments, but the vaccine was already pulled from the fridge. So that means it has to be used that day or its trash. If they cant find someone to give it to, it gets trashed. I now know six people who got the vaccine this way.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Westerly

[billvon 2,379]

23 minutes ago, Westerly said:

No, four people who were able to get a shot last minute because the vaccine was going to be discarded otherwise. Despite everyone's belief on here otherwise, this is common.

Right - extremely common.  People regularly don't show up for appointments - that's how Kallend got his.  Which means that that vaccine was NOT WASTED.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

46 minutes ago, billvon said:

Right - extremely common.  People regularly don't show up for appointments - that's how Kallend got his.  Which means that that vaccine was NOT WASTED.

Like no shit. It ain't rocket science which is why I'm doing it, too, as soon as it starts here.

Edited February 4, 2021 by JoeWeber

[brenthutch 383]

Lockdown California daily COVID cases Feb 4 = 14681

Unlocked Florida daily COVID cases Feb 4 = 7711

After accounting for the difference in population, locked down California (D) is still not doing as well as  unlocked Florida (R)

And that is why I am talking the kids to Disney World next month and not Disneyland.

 

[pchapman 261]

6 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Lockdown California daily COVID cases Feb 4 = 14681

Unlocked Florida daily COVID cases Feb 4 = 7711

After accounting for the difference in population, locked down California (D) is still not doing as well as  unlocked Florida (R)

And that is why I am talking the kids to Disney World next month and not Disneyland.

 

"Better pick the right day of the week, and hope you get lucky with the statistics"

Because I'm seeing  7 day average cases per million, as of Feb 4,  of 430 for Florida, and 394 for California.   

(California = better)

But yes the 1 day figures are 359 for Florida and 371 for California.      (California = worse)

On the other, hand go back 2 days, and you get  490 for Florida on the 2nd of Feb and 465 for California.      (California = better)

I think the 7 day averages are better than the daily numbers that bounce around a lot.

I'd say the two states are doing similarly, with a slight edge for California.

(My source was a Canadian news source that used this data: "U.S. data is collected daily from the COVID-19 Data Repository by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University. ")

I haven't been active in this thread but just wanted to do one of those checks, where you see whether the "other side's" numbers are bullshit or not. Yours aren't a lie, but aren't the best choice, so turn out to be somewhat deceptive. Perhaps inadvertently; but most of us know by know that 7 day averages are generally better measure of trends.

 

Edit: I haven't looked into other factors like length of lockdowns, prior peak case loads (California did have it worse), etc.

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by pchapman

[wmw999 2,114]

26 minutes ago, pchapman said:

I haven't been active in this thread but just wanted to do one of those checks, where you see whether the "other side's" numbers are bullshit or not. Yours aren't a lie, but aren't the best choice, so turn out to be somewhat deceptive. Perhaps inadvertently; but most of us know by know that 7 day averages are generally better measure of trends.

They are if you care more about making your point than about an honest evaluation.

Wendy P.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

24 minutes ago, pchapman said:

... Yours aren't a lie, but aren't the best choice, so turn out to be somewhat deceptive. Perhaps inadvertently; but most of us know by now that 7 day averages are generally better measure of trends.

"Perhaps inadvertently'.

Sure. Sure it was an 'accident'.

[billvon 2,379]

35 minutes ago, pchapman said:

I haven't been active in this thread but just wanted to do one of those checks, where you see whether the "other side's" numbers are bullshit or not. Yours aren't a lie, but aren't the best choice, so turn out to be somewhat deceptive. Perhaps inadvertently; but most of us know by know that 7 day averages are generally better measure of trends.

Further, CA has 2x the population of FL.  So no matter how you measure it, the odds of seeing a new (recent) infection in any given crowd size is significantly lower in CA than in FL now.

(Of course other factors go in to people's decisions, like politics.)

[SkyDekker 1,119]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:44 AM, brenthutch said:

And that is why I am talking the kids to Disney World next month and not Disneyland.

Do your kids a favour and just tell them you don't like them very much. It will be devastating, but beats finding out dad took them places with higher risks of getting covid.

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Do your kids a favour and just tell them you don't like them very much. It will be devastating, but beats finding out dad took them places with higher risks of getting covid.

My kids are more concerned about the Tower of Terror than with COVID.  My youngest brother is down in Florida now with his family, but they are at Universal.  He says the place is packed and they have to wait in line for more than an hour for the rides.  The bars and restaurants are busy and yet COVID cases continue to plummet.  Seems that not locking down is working just as well as lockdowns and without the collateral damage.