Lefties and lockdowns

[jakee 1,254]

6 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Non sequitur?  It was in response to sfzombie’s personal attack.

Let's be fair though, you ran away from the Capitol attack thread after running out of ways to defend the outrageously racist thing you said then. Kinda means the video making fun of attacking non-racists for being racists really is a non-sequitur, doesn't it?

 

And speaking of running away, are you going to address the sheer perfidy of your post claiming to show that lockdowns don't work?

[sfzombie13 307]

10 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Non sequitur?  It was in response to sfzombie’s personal attack.

i did not attack you.  i called you a racist.  you are.  it's not personal, i know lots of racists.  most of them i actually have to interact with.  hell, they come to the dz i jump at, and the state is full of them.  you can't get away from them.  if you feel it was a personal attack, that's your issue.  i've been wrong before, and the video proves that i was right if anything.  i haven't looked this racist bastard up yet, but i guarantee i called it right for him.  you need to work on yourself, but that's on you, not me.  if you want to start, try reading the article i wrote that describes passive racists such as yourself and why you are worse than the one ones in the kkk.  a friend of mine started the website and was glad to include it.  she is Black, and there was nothing she said about not needing me to advocate for her, in fact, she said it was powerful.  i have no reason to think she was pandering to me to make me feel better, i think she actually likes having white folks on her side.  but racists such as yourself wouldn't understand that. 

[wmw999 2,114]

Calling someone a racist is a personal attack by dz.com standards. Saying their actions are racist is not. 
Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 383]

14 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Calling someone a racist is a personal attack by dz.com standards. Saying their actions are racist is not. 
Wendy P. 

Point of clarification

What is the difference between “you need to rectify your cranial rectal inversion” and “get your head out of your forth point of contact”?  I don’t see a substantive difference but apparently some of the moderators do.  

[sfzombie13 307]

where there's smoke, there's fire.  sometimes it's just a smoldering, waiting on the wind to fan the flames, sometimes it's already gone, but was there.  if me calling you a racist, based completely on the words you use that are known examples of what some are now calling dog whistles but are mainly just phrases used to disguise racist views to make them more palatable to others, then you are either a racist and took offense or clueless that the words you are using are racist.  doesn't matter to me which, i don't know you and most likely will never meet you.  it's hard to do the right thing most of the time, yet i try to.  i am currently in the midst of a huge struggle with the right thing now, and it sucks arse.  i am sick to death of the rampant racism surrounding me, and the fact that folks like you tend to try to ignore it and excuse it by downplaying the significance of it.  like that idiot in the video.  i am not surprised at all you found it, or that you posted it.  disgusted, but not a bit surprised.  i got nothing else for you, you'll meet your maker one of these days and find out just how wrong you are now.  or not.  again, doesn't matter to me.  you do you.  i wish you the best of luck with your struggle, whether you know you are in one or not.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Point of clarification

Point of clarification - were you being deliberately deceptive when you justified your anti-lockdown stance by quoting a guy who thought Covid was going to disappear last spring, or are you really that bad at evaluating sources?

[brenthutch 383]

53 minutes ago, jakee said:

Point of clarification - were you being deliberately deceptive when you justified your anti-lockdown stance by quoting a guy who thought Covid was going to disappear last spring, or are you really that bad at evaluating sources?

I also quoted the WHO and

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1349478824606502912.html

 

[jakee 1,254]

20 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I also quoted the WHO and

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1349478824606502912.html

And did you not bother to look into any of those sources beyond those snapshots, or did it not bother you that you were quoting people who's interpretations of the same data lead them to state  that the virus was disappearing all on its own?

[yoink 321]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:16 PM, brenthutch said:

Sorry you are correct, the Dr. who made that claim extrapolated that number, using actual testing and an estimate of asymptotic and non reported cases.  Still, a mask and a shutdown doesn’t protect you it only postpones the inevitable.  The only way out is via   Herd immunity, either through vaccines or exposure.  

There's so much wrong with this post.

Herd immunity via exposure can only be suggested by someone who doesn't understand how viruses work, or doesn't care about the cost of getting there or the risk in doing so.

Let's forget for a second that some people have been infected twice (proving that exposure doesn't guarantee immunity), the bit you have to remember is that EVERY time a virus replicates in a cell there's a chance for a mutation to occur. In very rare cases those mutations become the dominant form if it helps the virus survive or spread. So yeah, it's small odds of happening, but small odds multiplied by an entire population increase the risk significantly. A mutation that invalidates the current vaccine or immune system-based immunity would be disastrous and would effectively set us back to the start of the pandemic. There is a very real risk of this.

And for the record - a mask DOES protect you. It might not be 100% effective, but it absolutely adds protection. As do distancing and shutdowns. Brent, please - stop spreading misinformation like this. This isn't one of those things you can just have your own opinion on and pretend it's just as valid as actual facts and math.

Edited January 31, 2021 by yoink

[gowlerk 1,901]

8 minutes ago, yoink said:

Herd immunity via exposure can only be suggested by someone who doesn't understand viruses or doesn't care about the cost of getting there or the risk in doing so.

This is the key fact of the whole problem. Herd immunity did not work for influenza, we had to learn to live with it. At this point we just can not say what effect this newish class of coronavirus is going to have in the long term. It is still possible that it could mutate into something that will have a major impact on human life for a long time. Or, it may do what a virus usually does. Which is evolve into something that spreads well, but is not virulent enough to kill its host, or weaken it so much that it may as well be dead. We have far better technology available to us today that we have never had before. Along with tools to understand the disease process and how to interrupt it.

Impatient people who are not willing to tolerate the inconvenience of modifying their lifestyle for a time while we take advantage of the nearly incomprehensible advantages that have been developed just need to be ignored or pushed into the corners they belong it. It comes as no surprise at all that they are the same people who also drag their feet in the battle to get CO2 levels under control in order to preserve the environmental conditions that have allowed us to flourish on Earth for the past 10,000 years or so as we developed our understanding and rose from our previous state. 

What do we owe to future generations? I don't know, but clearly some people are not even willing to consider the question.

[brenthutch 383]

18 hours ago, gowlerk said:

This is the key fact of the whole problem. Herd immunity did not work for influenza, we had to learn to live with it. 

In other words, some people get vaccinated, others don’t, a lot of people get it, some die, nobody wears a mask, we don’t do lockdowns and we just get on with our lives.  I agree.

BTW influenza is in a different category of virus that is more prone to mutation, and it is much more deadly to people who are at the beginning of the beginning of their lives while COVID predominantly strikes down those at the end of their lives.

[BIGUN 1,042]

On 1/25/2021 at 9:16 PM, brenthutch said:

The only way out is via   Herd immunity, either through vaccines or exposure.

So, we should all take one in the ass to prevent HIV. /sarcasm

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

It's kinda funny.

The only place that I'd ever heard the phrase 'herd immunity' used was in conversations about vaccines.

At least until Covid.

Most folks who understand disease shudder when 'herd immunity via infection' is brought up.
Partly because the cost is so high.
Partly because it really doesn't work. 

[ryoder 1,380]

This "herd immunity" idea is brilliant!

No need for the smallpox vaccine, just expose everyone to smallpox!

No need for polio vaccines, just expose everyone to polio!

No need for rabies vaccines, just have everyone line up to get bitten by a rabid dog!

No need for hepatitis vaccines, just jab everyone with a junkie's dirty needle!

The whole vaccine industry is totally unnecessary! Why didn't we realize this before???

[brenthutch 383]

3 minutes ago, ryoder said:

This "herd immunity" idea is brilliant!

No need for the smallpox vaccine, just expose everyone to smallpox!

No need for polio vaccines, just expose everyone to polio!

No need for rabies vaccines, just have everyone line up to get bitten by a rabid dog!

No need for hepatitis vaccines, just jab everyone with a junkie's dirty needle!

The whole vaccine industry is totally unnecessary! Why didn't we realize this before???

Vaccination is how “herd immunity” is achieved.......(face palm)

[sfzombie13 307]

10 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Vaccination is how “herd immunity” is achieved.......(face palm)

pretty sure your own statement ended with "or exposure".  also dumb as hell, since exposure is how we get mutations, aka the south african strain, the uk strain.  and no reason to think they came from either of those places, they could very well have mutated the same way here, and most likely did just that.  i was just reading the other day about how one species of something(forgot what it was, sharks i think) came up with the same mutation 3 times in isolation.

[nwt 131]

Let's play a game.

We've all been captured by terrorists. They are insisting we all play Russian Roulette. Here are the rules:

• We all must pull the trigger exactly one time
• You can choose to do this now, or you can delay as long as you like
• Eventually we will be rescued, and everyone still living is free to go

The optimal strategy here is pretty obvious, right?

[kallend 1,619]

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

 

The whole vaccine industry is totally unnecessary! Why didn't we realize this before???

Follow the money?

[Phil1111 903]

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

This "herd immunity" idea is brilliant!

No need for the smallpox vaccine, just expose everyone to smallpox!

No need for polio vaccines, just expose everyone to polio!

No need for rabies vaccines, just have everyone line up to get bitten by a rabid dog!

No need for hepatitis vaccines, just jab everyone with a junkie's dirty needle!

The whole vaccine industry is totally unnecessary! Why didn't we realize this before???

 

5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

... much more deadly to people who are at the beginning of the beginning of their lives while COVID predominantly strikes down those at the end of their lives.

Stop feeding the old people because they are going to die soon anyway. I mean the whole concept of retired old people is economically wasteful. Once you're at the end of your life you should just move aside for someone younger. Book your appointment with Dr Kevorkian on your last full day of employment and just get it over.

[BIGUN 1,042]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Vaccination is how “herd immunity” is achieved.......(face palm)

There are two types of herd immunity - it was originally from natural infection (Sweden tried this and it no worky).. With COVID, it is estimated that 67% of the world's population would have to have both vaccine phases. Now, that sounds cool, but - it would require the entire world to stop and have 67% of the population vaccinated at the same time on the same day. That's not quite feasible, so it's going to be a chase game for at least a year or two before we even come close to vaccine-derived herd immunity. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by BIGUN

[nwt 131]

3 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

There are two types of herd immunity - it was originally derived from natural infection

Well there aren't really two types and it's not a term that is really meant to describe a particular strategy. It just describes a thing that happens when enough of a population becomes immune. It doesn't imply anything about how the population got there.

[brenthutch 383]

Looks like COVID cases have plateaued and are dropping across the country, even in areas that didn’t lockdown and didn’t have mask mandates.  That is curious.

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by brenthutch

[sfzombie13 307]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Looks like COVID cases have plateaued and are dropping across the country, even in areas that didn’t lockdown and didn’t have mask mandates.  That is curious.

 

no it's not.  it's called vaccinating works.  i'd also like to see the source, not that i don't trust you, but i don't.

[billvon 2,379]

21 hours ago, BIGUN said:

There are two types of herd immunity - it was originally from natural infection (Sweden tried this and it no worky).. With COVID, it is estimated that 67% of the world's population would have to have both vaccine phases. Now, that sounds cool, but - it would require the entire world to stop and have 67% of the population vaccinated at the same time on the same day. That's not quite feasible, so it's going to be a chase game for at least a year or two before we even come close to vaccine-derived herd immunity. 

Not really.  Herd immunity does not refer to how the immunity is conferred.  It refers to protection of a susceptible individual by the organisms around that individual all being immune, thus forming a "barrier" that the disease must pass through before it gets to them.  (Of course it's not a literal barrier; it's a significant reduction in statistical odds of the susceptible individual being in contact with a contagious carrier.)  The immunity could come from a vaccine or a natural infection/response (the outcomes are essentially identical) or it could even come passively, where antibodies are transferred from one person to another via natural or artificial means.

Note that in many cases those susceptible individuals are people who are immunocompromised (transplant recipients, chemotherapy patients) or who cannot tolerate vaccination (infants, some people prone to anaphylactic shock) and thus herd immunity represents their only protection.

[brenthutch 383]

8 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

no it's not.  it's called vaccinating works.  i'd also like to see the source, not that i don't trust you, but i don't.

Vaccines have just started coming out, and only a small portion have received both shots so it can’t be that.  Don’t trust me?  Google your heart out.