Africa to build thousands of coal fired power plants

[brenthutch 383]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55620848

Researchers found that around 2,500 power plants are planned, enough to double electricity production by 2030.”

”Until now, there has been a widely shared view that African countries would "leapfrog" directly to renewable energy sources, and away from old world coal, oil and gas. This has already happened with communications, where countries have invested in cellular technology and over 90% of people across the continent have access to a mobile service.

But the new research indicates that this same sort of leap isn't likely to happen with green electricity over the next decade. 

By 2030, the study suggests that coal, oil and gas will continue to dominate the generation of electricity across 54 African countries, with just 9.6% coming from renewable sources”

Looks like somebody forgot to tell Africa about global warming 

[wmw999 2,119]

Deleted the duplicate thread.

Wendy P.

[brenthutch 383]

Thank you, it looked like my original did not upload so I reposted.  

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Thank you, it looked like my original did not upload so I reposted.  

Hi Brent,

Re:  'it looked like my original did not upload'

When that looks like it for me ( which is not an unusual thing ), I get off the site & back on; Voila, there it will be.

Jerry Baumchen

[brenthutch 383]

9 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Brent,

Re:  'it looked like my original did not upload'

When that looks like it for me ( which is not an unusual thing ), I get off the site & back on; Voila, there it will be.

Jerry Baumchen

Thank you for the tip, will do in the future.  Didn’t there used to be a “ delete post” option?

[Baksteen 84]

21 hours ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55620848

 

Researchers found that around 2,500 power plants are planned, enough to double electricity production by 2030.”

”Until now, there has been a widely shared view that African countries would "leapfrog" directly to renewable energy sources, and away from old world coal, oil and gas. This has already happened with communications, where countries have invested in cellular technology and over 90% of people across the continent have access to a mobile service.

But the new research indicates that this same sort of leap isn't likely to happen with green electricity over the next decade. 

By 2030, the study suggests that coal, oil and gas will continue to dominate the generation of electricity across 54 African countries, with just 9.6% coming from renewable sources”

Looks like somebody forgot to tell Africa about global warming 

Without bothering to do any actual research or fact-checking, I can imagine that the leap-frogging is cost driven, just like anything else.

It should be way cheaper and easier to install a few cell towers here and there than put in thousands of kilometers of phone cabling.
On the other hand, "green" energy is relatively expensive and needs specialised workers.

Also, green energy is not always as green as it seems.

A while back there were news reports of Dutch energy companies buying "green energy" certificates from their Norwegian counterparts, which had a surplus of them.

Second example: when burning Biomass pellets in your environment-friendly Dutch CV-installation, it is good to know that the biomass pellets are actually mass produced by cutting down trees overseas, after which the pellets are transported by container ship to the country of destination.

As to solar panels, there are stories about how a solar panel does not ëarn" its own carbon footprint back during its lifetime. Fortunately the technology is improving. Also, it is possible to "recycle" rare components from the old panels which are needing replacement.
 

 

 

[billvon 2,391]

5 hours ago, Baksteen said:

Second example: when burning Biomass pellets in your environment-friendly Dutch CV-installation, it is good to know that the biomass pellets are actually mass produced by cutting down trees overseas, after which the pellets are transported by container ship to the country of destination.

While that's true, it should be noted that those trees were being cut down anyway for lumber and paper.  Pellets use the otherwise-unusable parts of the tree (bark, first slabs, sawdust etc)

[brenthutch 383]

Ironic that Africa is moving away from bio-fuels(wood, charcoal and dung) towards fossil fuels.

[Phil1111 910]

Don't concern yourself with Africa.

Climate Change Is an Increasing Threat to Africa

The trump head in the sand approach will turn all of Africa into a desert and no power plants will be needed. Africans will all migrate to Europe.

"Each year Africa produces an average of just over 1 metric ton of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide per person,... By comparison, each American generates almost 16 metric tons per year.' Yet Continental Divide: Why Africa’s Climate Change Burden Is Greater

They are mostly Black, "shithole" countries and trump's America has fracking, so F*#k them.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Phil1111

[brenthutch 383]

26 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Don't concern yourself with Africa.

The trump head in the sand approach will turn all of Africa into a desert 

Looks like Africa is making rational choices for its energy future and if Trump is going to turn Africa into a desert, he had better hurry, he only has four days left.

Edited January 15, 2021 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,297]

38 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Looks like Africa is making rational choices for its energy future and if Trump is going to turn Africa into a desert, he had better hurry, he only has four days left.

I suppose it's rational to pick Chinese funded door #1 when there is no Western World funded Doors #2 or 3. While I'm not sanguine about dumping CO2 into the atmosphere, and I definitely don't see 800ppm as salubrious, it is hard to see how our best efforts are going to amount to a pinch of slag when the developing world is so big and undeveloped and when the Chinese will apparently continue expand unhindered to global dominance at any price. Some day's I think, fine, let's let them buy a cooked planet. 

[riggerrob 558]

How much coal is in Africa?

[JoeWeber 2,297]

7 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

How much coal is in Africa?

Less than tea in China, apparently. The Chinese are everywhere I have traveled for years. No one likes them, but they all want the money. They simply wheel in, grease the local politicians and get going on an infrastructure project using Chinese equipment and Chinese labor who shop in the also supplied Chinese Stores and restaurants.

[brenthutch 383]

30 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

How much coal is in Africa?

725+ million tons of proven reserves as of 2017.

[brenthutch 383]

45 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Less than tea in China, apparently. The Chinese are everywhere I have traveled for years. No one likes them, but they all want the money. They simply wheel in, grease the local politicians and get going on an infrastructure project using Chinese equipment and Chinese labor who shop in the also supplied Chinese Stores and restaurants.

Just like they did here

 

[JoeWeber 2,297]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Just like they did here

 

You mean like those robber baron Chinese railway workers? Seriously, what are you talking about?

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

You mean like those robber baron Chinese railway workers? Seriously, what are you talking about?

No, here, as in right here in State College. When there were notions circulating about boycotting the 2008 Olympics, there was a protest at Old Main, with hundreds of Chinese students waving their nations flag. (I thought to myself, “did we loose a war?”) The FBI is routinely arresting Chinese spies here and we have about twenty Chinese restaurants serving a population of less than 50,000 and some of them have been busted conducting nefarious activities.  
 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjLv_b7jZ_uAhWxuVkKHV8aBvEQwqsBMAB6BAgOEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsouthpark.cc.com%2Fepisodes%2F4yl119%2Fsouth-park-band-in-china-season-23-ep-2&usg=AOvVaw0LFQfVXU8LfPmlVCCKyh4o

worth a look

[JoeWeber 2,297]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

nefarious activities

You mean like over cooking the Kung Pao Chicken? The horrors! F'n unbelievable that in a nation where free speech is at the top of our rights, and every last other person who is here for any reason, that visitors to our nation should feel free to celebrate their nation in support of a true international sporting event like the Olympics. Thanks for the valuable insight.

[brenthutch 383]

20 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You mean like over cooking the Kung Pao Chicken? The horrors! F'n unbelievable that in a nation where free speech is at the top of our rights, and every last other person who is here for any reason, that visitors to our nation should feel free to celebrate their nation in support of a true international sporting event like the Olympics. Thanks for the valuable insight.

No like espionage, 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/penn-states-engineering-school-computers-hacked-1431804110

[JoeWeber 2,297]

12 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

No like espionage, 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/penn-states-engineering-school-computers-hacked-1431804110

Based. In. China. Your issue is that these Chinese outnumbered xenophobes .00013 to 1.

[wmw999 2,119]

Locally, Chinese restaurants have a reputation for hiring people, housing them, and paying them well below scale, even taking the shared apartment into the equation. The employees (some seemingly straight off the boat) are expecting that, but it's against local law and custom. However, from a couple of articles in the local paper (we still have one!), that's kind of how the Chinese restaurant business works; it's a pipeline for people to be able to send money home to their families, while living on basically nothing.

Haven't heard much about local espionage in western Massachusetts

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

1 minute ago, wmw999 said:

Locally, Chinese restaurants have a reputation for hiring people, housing them, and paying them well below scale, even taking the shared apartment into the equation. The employees (some seemingly straight off the boat) are expecting that, but it's against local law and custom. However, from a couple of articles in the local paper (we still have one!), that's kind of how the Chinese restaurant business works; it's a pipeline for people to be able to send money home to their families, while living on basically nothing.

Haven't heard much about local espionage in western Massachusetts

Wendy P.

Wendy,

Outside of the US the Chinese are broadening their base with contracts. I have seen many examples with my own eyes. On the ground where it is happening I make inquiries with locals and ask questions. The Chinese build cities no one will live in to invigorate their economy. For them, these overseas projects are a no brainer. They get a foothold in another nation, they employ Chinese there, and at home where the equipment is built, and they never intend to leave. Think of it like Ron's electoral map except not of Georgia but of the world. All of the red is where the Chinese are doling out cash and gaining presence. They have already won and they know it.

[wmw999 2,119]

We were in Kenya and Tanzania about a year ago; there's evidence all over the place of the Chinese comign in and building things, sometimes supposedly with "no strings attached," except for goodwill, which goes a long way. It's what the US used to do. Before we decided we'd already bought all the loyalty we needed, and didn't keep paying for it.

I have absolutely no issue with the Chinese doing that -- they're protecting their interests, and not using the military to do it.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

5 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

We were in Kenya and Tanzania about a year ago; there's evidence all over the place of the Chinese comign in and building things, sometimes supposedly with "no strings attached," except for goodwill, which goes a long way. It's what the US used to do. Before we decided we'd already bought all the loyalty we needed, and didn't keep paying for it.

I have absolutely no issue with the Chinese doing that -- they're protecting their interests, and not using the military to do it.

Wendy P.

Having an issue with it or not is entirely irrelevant. Relevant is that the Chinese will not fail their hegemonistic goal as we did. They are done being second. The thing about the Han Chinese is that at their very core they believe they should rule the world. Not in concert but they. Right now they are holding all aces. They have the population numbers, they have the economy, they have a weakened Russia, they have a weakened western world thanks to Trump, and they have a world asian population of 4.5 Billion out of 7.2 Billion to cater to. We can enjoy our time in the sun but in 1000 years every last human alive will have a Chinese name. That's just reality.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

40 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Having an issue with it or not is entirely irrelevant. Relevant is that the Chinese will not fail their hegemonistic goal as we did. They are done being second. The thing about the Han Chinese is that at their very core they believe they should rule the world. Not in concert but they. Right now they are holding all aces. They have the population numbers, they have the economy, they have a weakened Russia, they have a weakened western world thanks to Trump, and they have a world asian population of 4.5 Billion out of 7.2 Billion to cater to. We can enjoy our time in the sun but in 1000 years every last human alive will have a Chinese name. That's just reality.

Hi Joe,

Baumchen is German; and, means little tree.  Anyone know what 'little tree' is in Chinese?  And, how in hell do you pronounce it?

Jerry Baumchen