Charges coming in Flint MI water scandal

[JoeWeber 2,297]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

December 14, 2015 Mayor declares emergency 

January 4, 2016 County declares emergency

January 5, 2016 Governor Snyder declares emergency 

January 12, 2016 Governor Snyder calls out National Guard to assist 

January 12, 2016 President Obama declares emergency

I’m missing the “willfully negligent” part.

You forgot "thanks for playing".

[olofscience 420]

3 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

December 14, 2015 Mayor declares emergency 

January 4, 2016 County declares emergency

January 5, 2016 Governor Snyder declares emergency 

January 12, 2016 Governor Snyder calls out National Guard to assist 

January 12, 2016 President Obama declares emergency

I’m missing the “willfully negligent” part.

You should tell the prosecutor that.

Nothing to see here, folks! Brenthutch has made his ruling, who needs a court case or evidence or any due process of any sort, right?

Anyway, joking aside, I'm not a lawyer, and the evidence isn't public - they'll be made public in court proceedings later.

[brenthutch 383]

51 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I pointed this out a while ago, it's a consequence of how he lives. I'm certain that everyone he allows around him is mostly agreeable, or non confrontational, with his views. Brent is a strong personality whose technique is obvious in his posts: get in your face, argue that you aren't aware, and then call it over. To wit: "thanks for playing." He's not a troll, he's damn smart and simply quite used to winning. We are simply amusements for him.

Actually I seek out options and viewpoints that do not agree with me, this forum is an example. This requires me to sharpen my thinking and to make my arguments more robust. I listen to NPR, not talk radio, I watch MSNBC, not fox.  I will stand by and vociferously defend my point of view, however when I am proven to be in error I will concede (generally).  For example, while my larger point with regard to the vaccine development was correct I was in error on one of the finer points, to which I conceded.

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,297]

27 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Actually I seek out options and viewpoints that do not agree with me, this forum is an example. This requires me to sharpen my thinking and to make my arguments more robust. I listen to NPR, not talk radio, I watch MSNBC, not fox.  I will stand by and vociferously defend my point of view, however when I am proven to be in error I will concede (generally).  For example, while my larger point with regard to the vaccine development was correct I was in error on one of the finer points, to which I conceded.

 

I graciously accept your agreement. 

[olofscience 420]

I think it was airdvr who basically said the stuff Trump did was the Democrats' fault, because they did the unforgivable mistake of losing to him in 2016.

brent's doing something similar now.

The main argument is about spreading blame around, blurring lines of responsibility. Thing is, we're ALL connected, one way or another. Start blurring those lines and eventually it will reach you.

Edited January 15, 2021 by olofscience

[Phil1111 910]

9 minutes ago, olofscience said:

I think it was airdvr who basically said the stuff Trump did was the Democrats' fault, because they did the unforgivable mistake of losing to him in 2016.

brent's doing something similar now.

The main argument is about spreading blame around, blurring lines of responsibility. Thing is, we're ALL connected, one way or another. Start blurring those lines and eventually it will reach you.

So Brent has a PhD from the Ivy League GOP university of stonewalling?

[JoeWeber 2,297]

42 minutes ago, olofscience said:

I think it was airdvr who basically said the stuff Trump did was the Democrats' fault, because they did the unforgivable mistake of losing to him in 2016.

brent's doing something similar now.

The main argument is about spreading blame around, blurring lines of responsibility. Thing is, we're ALL connected, one way or another. Start blurring those lines and eventually it will reach you.

airdvr is now without any credibility, hence his usual departure until we forget. His claim that the capitol attack was a "dust up" not only gives insight into the right wing way of denial thinking but also reveals his news sources. Not good.

Brent doesn't care, really. His chosen issues of the second amendment and global warming, whether he realizes it or not, are adorable to him because they are open for endless debate. They are, in fact, religious issues that allow belief to trump facts. In all honesty, I respect Brent because, unlike some, he is so good at what he does. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by JoeWeber

[billvon 2,394]

4 hours ago, olofscience said:

So if your car breaks down, then you call a mechanic to fix it, and while doing it he sets the car on fire, it's your fault?

Absolutely!  Republicans today buy into the victim culture 100%.  "The election was STOLEN!"  "Trump would have been the best president ever but the media was MEAN to him!"  "I am just a poor victim of cancel culture."  "I'd be doing great if all those minorities, pedophiles and illegal aliens weren't given MILLIONS by the Dems!"

[SkyDekker 1,121]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Actually I seek out options and viewpoints that do not agree with me, this forum is an example. This requires me to sharpen my thinking and to make my arguments more robust. I listen to NPR, not talk radio, I watch MSNBC, not fox.  I will stand by and vociferously defend my point of view, however when I am proven to be in error I will concede (generally).  For example, while my larger point with regard to the vaccine development was correct I was in error on one of the finer points, to which I conceded.

 

Bullshit. 

GDP growth, Recession, Tesla bankruptcy among many others. 

[ryoder 1,381]

List of all those indicted, and the charges:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/ex-michigan-governor-indicted-for-willful-neglect-in-flint-water-crisis/

[brenthutch 383]

9 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Bullshit. 

GDP growth, Recession, Tesla bankruptcy among many others. 

I admitted I was wrong with regard to Tesla, so you’re wrong there.

GDP Growth = no Recession (thought we have to wait and see what the first quarter brings and see what the officials say)

To be fair I wasn’t paying attention to the math, as a percentage drop from a high number is greater that the same percentage increase from a lower number.  

[brenthutch 383]

8 hours ago, ryoder said:

List of all those indicted, and the charges:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/ex-michigan-governor-indicted-for-willful-neglect-in-flint-water-crisis/

“'restitution would be the objective,' [St. Clair Shores attorney Craig] Tank said," according to the Free Press. "'Everyone in the state of Michigan recognizes that the man has deep pockets.'"

So it is just a money grab from some lawyers 

[olofscience 420]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

“'restitution would be the objective,' [St. Clair Shores attorney Craig] Tank said," according to the Free Press. "'Everyone in the state of Michigan recognizes that the man has deep pockets.'"

So it is just a money grab from some lawyers 

If the money helps pay for medical expenses of those affected, then I don't see the problem with it.

[brenthutch 383]

What do you think we should do about Andrew Cuomo (D NY), Tom Wolf (D PA),  Phil Murphy (D NJ), Gavin Newsome (D CA) and Gretchen Whitmer (D MI)?  They forced nursing homes to accept COVID patients, directly resulting in THOUSANDS of deaths in the most vulnerable population.  

[JoeWeber 2,297]

19 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

What do you think we should do about Andrew Cuomo (D NY), Tom Wolf (D PA),  Phil Murphy (D NJ), Gavin Newsome (D CA) and Gretchen Whitmer (D MI)?  They forced nursing homes to accept COVID patients, directly resulting in THOUSANDS of deaths in the most vulnerable population.  

WTF? The First grade classrooms were all empty, right? I say force them to clerk for Louie Gohmert, Josh Hawley, Jim Banks, Jim Jordon, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert. That'll teach them to house the elderly in medical care facilities during a pandemic. 

[olofscience 420]

29 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

What do you think we should do about Andrew Cuomo (D NY), Tom Wolf (D PA),  Phil Murphy (D NJ), Gavin Newsome (D CA) and Gretchen Whitmer (D MI)?  They forced nursing homes to accept COVID patients, directly resulting in THOUSANDS of deaths in the most vulnerable population.  

If you have evidence, then I suggest the following steps:

1. show that evidence to a prosecutor
2. if the evidence supports that a crime has been committed like criminal negligence, then file a case against them
   1. ideally this would have the support of the nursing homes that were allegedly forced to accept patients - if there's any evidence, they're the people who will probably have it anyway
3. argue the case in court
4. (optional) start a thread about it in SC - this is a completely different case to the Flint issue so it needs a different thread

 

[brenthutch 383]

Excellent idea 

[billvon 2,394]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

What do you think we should do about Andrew Cuomo (D NY), Tom Wolf (D PA),  Phil Murphy (D NJ), Gavin Newsome (D CA) and Gretchen Whitmer (D MI)?  They forced nursing homes to accept COVID patients, directly resulting in THOUSANDS of deaths in the most vulnerable population.  

Hmm.  We should prosecute them all, starting with Trump, whose lies about the threat of the pandemic directly resulting in hundreds of thousands of needless American deaths.  Then his enablers.  Then the small fry you list above.

[brenthutch 383]

11 minutes ago, billvon said:

Hmm.  We should prosecute them all, starting with Trump, whose lies about the threat of the pandemic directly resulting in hundreds of thousands of needless American deaths.  Then his enablers.  Then the small fry you list above.

Fine with me but I think Trumps crime would be one of omission where as the Governors’ actions led directly (and predictably) to the deaths of thousands.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Fine with me but I think Trumps crime would be one of omission where as the Governors’ actions led directly (and predictably) to the deaths of thousands.

Hi Brent,

Re:  'Trumps crime would be one of omission'

You have been poisoned ( not by me ), I have an antidote, I do not give it to you.  Am I guilty of a crime?

Jerry Baumchen

[brenthutch 383]

14 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Brent,

Re:  'Trumps crime would be one of omission'

You have been poisoned ( not by me ), I have an antidote, I do not give it to you.  Am I guilty of a crime?

Jerry Baumchen

From Wikipedia 

“In the criminal law, at common law, there was no general duty of care owed to fellow citizens. The traditional view was encapsulated in the example of watching a person drown in shallow water and making no rescue effort, where commentators borrowed the line, "Thou shalt not kill but needst not strive, officiously, to keep another alive." (Arthur Hugh Clough (1819–1861)) in support of the proposition that the failure to act does not attract criminal liability. Nevertheless, such failures might be morally indefensible and so both legislatures and the courts have imposed liability when the failure to act is sufficiently blameworthy to justify criminalisation.”

so I would say it depends and that would have to be sorted out in the courts.  Of course it would be morally indefensible (but that never stopped Trump)

[Faicon9493 114]

Good!

[billvon 2,394]

55 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Brent,

Re:  'Trumps crime would be one of omission'

You have been poisoned ( not by me ), I have an antidote, I do not give it to you.  Am I guilty of a crime?

Jerry Baumchen

I'd say it's more like:

You are poisoned.  You have an antidote.  The president says "Don't take it!  It doesn't work.  If you take it, it's some form of protest against me.  The poisoning will go away by itself, like magic.  Instead of the antidote, take hydroxychloroquine or bleach."  And you find out later that he said that just to keep his ratings up.

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

10 minutes ago, billvon said:

I'd say it's more like:

You are poisoned.  You have an antidote.  The president says "Don't take it!  It doesn't work.  If you take it, it's some form of protest against me.  The poisoning will go away by itself, like magic.  Instead of the antidote, take hydroxychloroquine or bleach."  And you find out later that he said that just to keep his ratings up.

 

Hi Bill,

Re:  'you find out later'

You probably will NOT live to 'find out.'

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,254]

On 1/15/2021 at 1:29 AM, brenthutch said:

Actually I seek out options and viewpoints that do not agree with me, this forum is an example. This requires me to sharpen my thinking and to make my arguments more robust. I listen to NPR, not talk radio, I watch MSNBC, not fox.  I will stand by and vociferously defend my point of view, however when I am proven to be in error I will concede (generally).  For example, while my larger point with regard to the vaccine development was correct I was in error on one of the finer points, to which I conceded.

This is actually a perfect example of how unreasonable and intellectually dishonest you are.

Your fundamental claim in the vaccination development was that Warp Speed payment guarantees and huge early payments allowed the vaccine to be mass produced much faster than it otherwise would have been. It then turned out that the first mass supplier of the vaccine did not have a payment guarantee if it had failed trials, nor were they paid for it ahead of delivery. While they did ultimately get paid through the Warp Speed program it's kinda irrelevant at that point since the government would have had to have bought it through some payment channel.

Essentially you were completely wrong in principle but correct on one technicality, and as per usual you're desperately clinging to that technicality like Jack on the edge of Rose's raft.