concerns with my first rig

[Dsix36 5]

First off I only have 37 jumps and don't know crap yet.  I finally began getting affordable (read that as used) gear to call my own.  The helmet, digital altimeter, audible, and jump suit all seem pretty good although the suit has some looong legs on it.  My rig itself has a couple of things that concern me.  It will be going to my rigger for a complete inspection before I ever even think about jumping it.  The container feels like it is packed so tight that it is like a giant brick and not comfortable at all when on my back.  It is a Javelin J4 with a 218 reserve and a 210 main.  The chest strap does not cinch down as far as I am used to with the rental rigs and thus the handles are further back than I am used to also.  The final concern I have is that it has quick disconnect snaps on the leg straps.  This might be important for frequent jumps over water, but I do not have plans for that in my immediate future.

I welcome all advice and input, even if you tell me to throw it away and start over.

[CoolBeans 11]

Bring it to the best rigger you know around and discuss with them. That's the best thing you can do for now.

[mark 102]

6 hours ago, Dsix36 said:

 It will be going to my rigger for a complete inspection before I ever even think about jumping it.

It should have gone to your rigger for a complete inspection before you paid money.

[Binary93 65]

13 hours ago, Dsix36 said:

It is a Javelin J4 with a 218 reserve and a 210 main.

These are both quite bigger than the sizing chart recommends (J4K is 176-190 reserve and 190 main). Since you say J4 I assume it's a pre-K series (~20+ years old) so it might have stretched somewhat, but that pretty much explains why it seems very tightly packed.

I've had 170/180 in my J1 (which is rated for 150/143), but it has some stretch and doesn't seem overstuffed. Deployed the reserve once without any issues, but I wouldn't blindly recommend it.

[Dsix36 5]

7 hours ago, mark said:

It should have gone to your rigger for a complete inspection before you paid money.

I bought it long distance from reputable rigger.  I still want a second opinion from my local rigger who is not biased from the sale of his rig though. The reserve was just repacked before shipping to me.  The price was too good to pass up. 

[Binary93 65]

13 hours ago, Dsix36 said:

The final concern I have is that it has quick disconnect snaps on the leg straps.

This definitely poses additional risk and is something to be aware of when jumping. Make sure to have your leg straps tight to decrease the risk of accidental shackle release and it's also good that your fellow jumpers are aware of this.

 

 

[sfzombie13 307]

good luck asking javelin about the sizing.  i have an old j4 also, also has a 218 reserve and had a 210 main when i started, has a 181 now.  i sent a contact (from their website) to javelin asking what size would fit before downsizing, but got no response so i asked my rigger and he said sure.  new closing loop and good to go.  i don't recall it being too tight though, not hard to close at all.  look to see if the grommets are lined up.  i would ask about having the b12 snaps replaced, pretty sure a master rigger can do that, maybe get a longer chest strap too.  i paid $400 for mine and it came with the reserve, but has friction buckles and not b12 snaps. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by sfzombie13
clarification

[Binary93 65]

33 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

good luck asking javelin about the sizing.  i have an old j4 also, also has a 218 reserve and had a 210 main when i started, has a 181 now.  i sent a contact (from their website) to javelin asking what size would fit before downsizing, but got no response

Weird, I contacted them multiple times and they responded within 30 minutes or so.
I recommend using [email protected], not sure about the contact form on the website.

[BMAC615 205]

3 hours ago, sfzombie13 said:

good luck asking javelin about the sizing.  i have an old j4 also, also has a 218 reserve and had a 210 main when i started, has a 181 now.  i sent a contact (from their website) to javelin asking what size would fit before downsizing, but got no response so i asked my rigger and he said sure.  new closing loop and good to go.  i don't recall it being too tight though, not hard to close at all.  look to see if the grommets are lined up.  i would ask about having the b12 snaps replaced, pretty sure a master rigger can do that, maybe get a longer chest strap too.  i paid $400 for mine and it came with the reserve, but has friction buckles and not b12 snaps. 

This is odd as SunPath is known for having the best customer service in the industry. They are shut down for the holiday, though.

 

[NewGuy2005 51]

6 hours ago, Binary93 said:

This definitely poses additional risk and is something to be aware of when jumping. Make sure to have your leg straps tight to decrease the risk of accidental shackle release and it's also good that your fellow jumpers are aware of this.

 

 

 

Does anyone know how the woman with the open leg strap ended up?

 

[sfzombie13 307]

i thought it was weird and had heard the same thing.  maybe it got lost in the shuffle, and i did not pursue it, nor do want to make anything of it.  the canopy fits, that's all that matters and to be honest, i would have put it in anyway most likely.  it's old but built really well and i love it.  i am definitely getting another javelin when i get my new container.

[Binary93 65]

3 hours ago, NewGuy2005 said:

Does anyone know how the woman with the open leg strap ended up?

 

There are more details in the video description. She landed safely.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

The part about the chest strap not cinching down as far is because the yoke is smaller and/or the laterals are shorter. As a result, the Main Lift Web end up farther out on your chest & shoulders.
Make sure the MLW are properly on your shoulders, and then basically get used to it. 
It's entirely possible the yoke & lats on the rental gear were too big for you and this one is sized correctly. 

B-12 snap connectors on the leg straps are 'old school'. Not too many folks have them today, but there are some.

They make putting on and taking off somewhat easier, especially for those of us that are getting older and 'less bendy'. 

While there is a possibility of them coming loose, it's not common.

Make sure they are attached correctly, make sure they are functioning correctly, do your 'three checks of threes' and include a check of them when you check your leg straps. 

Personally, I'd have no problems jumping a rig with them (provided they are in good shape and work like they should).

[wmw999 2,114]

What Wolfriverjoe said, pretty much down the line. The most concerning thing for me would be how tight the rig was; one of the things you probably want to be able to do is pack your own gear, and it’s much harder when it’s ridiculously tight. 
Wendy P. 

[NewGuy2005 51]

2 hours ago, Binary93 said:

There are more details in the video description. She landed safely.

Thanks.  For some reason I did not see the "Show More".

[riggerrob 558]

Definitely ask your local master rigger to check how that harness fits you. It might be a better fit than student rigs.

If the laterals are too short, then your local master rigger can replace them with longer webbing. While resizing is also the best time to replace those snaps on your leg straps. Simpler friction adapters have far fewer malfunction modes ... bordering on zero. IF you have a choice, get the shiny, stainless steel friction adapters made by Wichard in France because they are specifically designed for modern webbing.

I share your dislike for snaps/hooks on harnesses. The woman in that scary video had B-12 snaps on her leg straps. It appears that her partner accidentally opened one when he grabbed her leg. Only time I have ever seen that!!!!!!!!!

[gowlerk 1,901]

19 hours ago, NewGuy2005 said:

 

Does anyone know how the woman with the open leg strap ended up?

 

She opened her main and then managed to do up the b-12 and land safely. She was very lucky and very determined. This rig belonged to my wife who put about 2000 jumps on it before selling it. I have b-12s myself. B-12s have a long track record of being used safely. This incident is proof that one in a million events can happen.

About the 218 in the J-4. The question is, what 218 do you have? I have put a Raven 2 which is 218 into one with no problem. PD makes a reserve in a 218 size that packs larger and would be a problem.

Edited January 1, 2021 by gowlerk

[Dsix36 5]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

She opened her main and then managed to do up the b-12 and land safely. She was very lucky and very determined. This rig belonged to my wife who put about 2000 jumps on it before selling it. I have b-12s myself. B-12s have a long track record of being used safely. This incident is proof that one in a million events can happen.

About the 218 in the J-4. The question is, what 218 do you have? I have put a Raven 2 which is 218 into one with no problem. PD makes a reserve in a 218 size that packs larger and would be a problem.

The reserve is a Precision Aerodynamics Raven 218.
The main is a Performance Designs 9-cell 210

[Dsix36 5]

I have been watching a whole lot of skydive videos.  It appears that this rig might be fitting me better than I thought and that my student rig was the "bad example" to follow.  It might just be new and i need to get used to it, but it looks like most other rigs that I see.  The handles are definitely less obtrusive and more secure where they are now.

I have a second question:
In regards to the pull handle of the pilot chute.  What are the reasons for different types.  I trained with a hacky sack and this rig has a plastic pcv tube

[wmw999 2,114]

The reason for hacky vs. pvc is cost. PVC is cheaper (and it was the original pull handle). If you see little pads they are generally considered to be more secure for freeflying.

If you maintain your gear (including a new pilot chute pocket when needed) and stow your pilot chute well with nothing showing, the likelihood of an inadvertent pilot chute pull is very small indeed.

Wendy P.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

1 hour ago, Dsix36 said:

...I have a second question:
In regards to the pull handle of the pilot chute.  What are the reasons for different types.  I trained with a hacky sack and this rig has a plastic pcv tube

The types of handles I'm familiar with are PVC, Hacky, Monkey Fist and Freefly Pillow (or Pud).

PVC is cheap and easy. Nothing really wrong with it. The only 'flaw' is that it's possible to jam your finger in the end of it and get the finger stuck. I've seen that demonstrated on the ground, but never heard of it actually happening in the air. Any potential of that happening can be eliminated by putting wine corks in the ends. 
It has largely fallen out of favor and isn't seen much any more.
One plus, for those of us that trained on actual ripcord gear, is that the handle is identical to the ones on the ripcords (yes, I'm old). 

Hacky is a bit more expensive, but comfortable and easy to grab. Much more common. One potential downside is that if it wears or rips, the beads can fall out and you have a 'deflated' handle. I've seen this once or twice, but it had happened in the gear bag, and was discovered on the ground.

Monkey Fist is a specialty 'wrapped knot'. Again, more expensive, but it has the 'cool factor'. 

Freefly Pillow or Pud is a low profile handle that also has a tuck tab that goes under a flap. It's much more secure than anything above (less drag and secured in place with the tab). It's popular with freefliers, who are going fast enough that a premature opening can be a very serious problem. The downside is that pulling takes more effort and some technique to get it loose. I've heard stories of people using one for the first time without fully understanding what they are using finding they couldn't pull it and ending up with a reserve ride. 

This is one of those things that you can understand a whole lot better at the DZ. Look around at other people's gear and see what they have. If you're sitting around on a weather hold or after jumping, ask for a better look and/or a quick explanation. Getting jumpers to tell you how cool their rig is isn't a difficult task.

[Binary93 65]

I would just add that hackey and monkey fist can also have a tuck tab on them to make them more secure for freefly.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

57 minutes ago, Binary93 said:

I would just add that hackey and monkey fist can also have a tuck tab on them to make them more secure for freefly.

Ohhh.

Thanks. 
I forgot about that.

[gowlerk 1,901]

3 hours ago, Dsix36 said:

The reserve is a Precision Aerodynamics Raven 218.
The main is a Performance Designs 9-cell 210

The raven is a reasonable fit. And a PD 9 cell is an older non ZP canopy. This would obviously be an older rig, it’s a combination of canopies are acceptable in sizing. But that does not mean that the rig is appropriate for you. It may or may not be depending on condition.

[councilman24 36]

The canopies should fit appropriately.  There is nothing wrong with b12 snaps.  They or similar snaps have been part of every military parachute system since 1920 until recently.  Have an experienced rigger show you how they may stick and how to fix it.  They may not be quite as idiot proof as friction adapters but if you are that much of an idiot you shouldn't be jumping.  The video wasn't the snaps fault. The fit of the harness can only be evaluated in person.

I recently serviced a rig a new jumper had just purchased from a Master Rigger.  The harness had damage, the cutaway cables were staggered in the wrong order, the soft ripcord was not up to current standards and too long, the risers were 'I'll jump them today but not tomorrow' condition, the webbing holding the main pin was worn half way through, and the main bag had been patched but still had a 2 inch slit in it. In addition it is an orphan rig with new reserve free bags and pilot chutes no longer available. 

There are very few people I'll buy something from without a pre-purchase inspection. If the seller won't do it I find another deal. This newbie had to spend about $400 to fix the rig and I cut him a break on labor and found like new used risers about half of new.  We thought he was going to have to spend about $200 more.  No price is that good.  I have one coming now for inspection where the price seems to good.  Well find out why.