WhoDaresWins 0 #1 March 6, 2017 A lot of incidents were caused by collapsed canopies at a very low altitude and many swoopers went in since a very sharp angle of entry leaves virtually no room for recovery, the results are always fatal. I believe that most of you have seen this UPT Skyhook promotion video with an example of two BASE cutaways under 100ft at around 11:42. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-WBBLAgE_s What do you guys think about the idea of cutting away at extreme low attitude and hopefully walk away unscathed? Is it worth the gamble? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,097 #2 March 6, 2017 WhoDaresWinsA lot of incidents were caused by collapsed canopies at a very low altitude and many swoopers went in since a very sharp angle of entry leaves virtually no room for recovery, the results are always fatal. I believe that most of you have seen this UPT Skyhook promotion video with an example of two BASE cutaways under 100ft at around 11:42. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-WBBLAgE_s What do you guys think about the idea of cutting away at extreme low attitude and hopefully walk away unscathed? Is it worth the gamble? Certainly not with a Skyhook. About 10% of them the hook releases.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 415 #3 March 6, 2017 WhoDaresWinsA lot of incidents were caused by collapsed canopies at a very low altitude... Historically there are actually very few incidents caused by collapsed canopies at low altitude.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 141 #4 March 6, 2017 Russian roulette with 5 loaded chambers. Better off just pulling silver. Low cutaways kill far more than collapsed canopies.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #5 March 6, 2017 questions like these are part of the reasons i dont want to hang out with skydivers anymore. and only very few basejumpers to be honest..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #6 March 7, 2017 The base "skyhook" video had slider down base canopies. If you want to plan your emergency procedures around that example I would think twice. A cutaway that low is a pretty sure way to die. I would take a collapsed or spinning main over a reserve not yet flying any day. It is still going to give you more drag and more of a chance that going back to practically nothing. Besides the real question is cutaway under 50 feet, because you are going to be much further down the gravity earth food chain by the time you respond to your hypothesized collapse."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #7 March 7, 2017 To say what Doug said a little clearer, those ARE NOT normal reserve openings from 100'. They are reserve canopies packed with the SLIDER DOWN. IF you don't know what that means ask a base jumper. DO NOT BASE ANY OF YOUR EMERGENCY PROCEDURES ON THOSE VIDEOS. DO NOT CUTAWAY FROM ANYTHING AT 100' UNLESS YOU PLAN TO LAND WITHOUT A PARACHUTE. Pick a reasonable cutaway minimum altitude for you and your equipment. Quite likely that will be at LEAST 300' and probably should be higher. If lower the alternative is to pull your reserve WITH OUT CUTTING AWAY to get more nylon over your head. If packed like a reserve is supposed to be packed they likely would NOT have opened. Also remember that this is a promotional video trying to sell SkyHooks and Vectors. Seek other opinions.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benjamin11 0 #8 March 7, 2017 virgin-burnerquestions like these are part of the reasons i dont want to hang out with skydivers anymore. and only very few basejumpers to be honest.. Super rad story, bro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #9 March 7, 2017 WhoDaresWinsA lot of incidents were caused by collapsed canopies at a very low altitude and many swoopers went in since a very sharp angle of entry leaves virtually no room for recovery, the results are always fatal. I believe that most of you have seen this UPT Skyhook promotion video with an example of two BASE cutaways under 100ft at around 11:42. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-WBBLAgE_s What do you guys think about the idea of cutting away at extreme low attitude and hopefully walk away unscathed? Is it worth the gamble? If what people above have said still doesn't resonate with you, pick a few local experienced BASE jumpers and get their opinion on jumping at 100ft. Then ask them what they think of taking a slider-down rig to terminal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FataMorgana 0 #10 March 7, 2017 Apologize for my ignorance but could you elaborate on the source of your information regarding supposed "10%" skyhook releases (for skyhook assisted reserve deployments). Seems a bit high. The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,097 #11 March 7, 2017 Just an estimate I've seen. Nothing more than that. The Skyhook needs to be able to release allowing for pilot chute activation when there is no cutaway. Sometimes it will release lanyard during a cutaway as well. Any MARD is just a fancy RSL and a backup device. It is not to be depended on as part of a plan for deployment. Just like any other RSL or AAD.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evh 22 #12 March 7, 2017 gowlerkJust an estimate I've seen. Nothing more than that. The Skyhook needs to be able to release allowing for pilot chute activation when there is no cutaway. Sometimes it will release lanyard during a cutaway as well. Any MARD is just a fancy RSL and a backup device. It is not to be depended on as part of a plan for deployment. Just like any other RSL or AAD. This may be true. A friend of mine once borrowed my rig, had a spinning mal and cut away. He claims the skyhook did not work, and the reserve opened when he pulled the reserve ripcord. I wasn't there so I'll take his word for it (also because he is a very current skydiver, AFF instructor and has a couple of previous reserves). Anyway, when I had my one and only reserve some time later, the Skyhook beat me in opening my reserve. So I don't know about the 10%, but I do have reason to believe that a skyhook does not work always. So I'm not going to lower my hard-deck. Still glad I have it beacause it still might save my ass ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwiskydiving 0 #13 March 7, 2017 I just had a cutaway with a skyhook and it took 350ft to open. Even when the skyhook engages, you have to account for the time it takes for the reserve to inflate. You might get a slow or fast reserve opening ranging from 100ft to 500ft, and it's certainly not worth the risk.My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YvonneWiggers 0 #14 March 7, 2017 QuoteThis may be true. A friend of mine once borrowed my rig, had a spinning mal and cut away. He claims the skyhook did not work, and the reserve opened when he pulled the reserve ripcord. I wasn't there so I'll take his word for it (also because he is a very current skydiver, AFF instructor and has a couple of previous reserves)... If your friend had to pull the reserve manually then the RSL shackle was disconnected, assuming no rigging errors were made. Either way, this has nothing to do with a skyhook. Personally I have had a cutaway where my skyhook became disconnected though (see attached pictures). Spinning main canopy and 'normal' RSL deployment resulted in a twisted reserve. But the twists were easy to get out and I'd still take a twisted reserve over no reserve any day :)."So I jump out, look up, and think 'Oh SHIT!... It's PINK!!!'" - army guy after his first staticline jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,097 #15 March 7, 2017 Quote He claims the skyhook did not work, and the reserve opened when he pulled the reserve ripcord. What YvonneWiggers said. Even if the Skyhook disconnects, the RSL system still functions as a normal RSL. Many people get Skyhook equipped rigs but don't take the time to fully understand exactly how the system works and what it does. The fact that it's all packed away where only your rigger sees it is the main cause of this. It's difficult to explain it in just words. Most people need to be shown the whole set up to understand it.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fencebuster 7 #16 March 7, 2017 SIM says below 1000 feet with an un-landable canopy, deploy the reserve. Put more out, not less.Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208 AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evh 22 #17 March 7, 2017 YvonneWiggers If your friend had to pull the reserve manually then the RSL shackle was disconnected, assuming no rigging errors were made. Either way, this has nothing to do with a skyhook. Based on his description I'm pretty sure this is not the case. He said the opening was not faster than his previous reserves on his own rig, which has an RSL but no skyhook. He probably pulled the ripcord when the reserve was already out of the container. But I was not there, and he had the reserve repacked before I could have a look. But even so; RSL shackles do get disconnected sometimes, making a cut-away at 100 ft a pretty dumb decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
countzero 7 #18 March 7, 2017 *** I think it would be better to not put myself in an avoidable situation to make the "gamble". You mention 2 things- canopy collapse and swooping so I'll address them separately. 1- Canopy collapse: don't jump in bad wind conditions and learn how to avoid turbulence from objects on the ground when landing. 2- Swooping: there are resources to learn the proper techniques when you have the experience. Don't just wing it.diamonds are a dawgs best friend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbjetboy 0 #19 March 7, 2017 fencebusterSIM says below 1000 feet with an un-landable canopy, deploy the reserve. Put more out, not less. ^^ ExactlyChad B Hall Woo hoo! My goal is to make every jump a fun and safe one. Blue skies! Some of my videos... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #20 March 8, 2017 FataMorgana Apologize for my ignorance but could you elaborate on the source of your information regarding supposed "10%" skyhook releases (for skyhook assisted reserve deployments). Seems a bit high. This does not really answer your question (the plural of "anecdote" is not "statistics") but: My one Skyhook cutaway did not result in a MARD; it disengaged due to the angle I was at and acted as an ordinary RSL. So sure, this is just a single occurrence, but there is no way you could convince me to cut away lower because I had a Skyhook installed. No way at all. (I would still buy another Skyhook if the container I wanted offered the option - it's a good idea. But it's not magic, and it shouldn't change the decisions you should make when things go pear-shaped.)-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 415 #21 March 8, 2017 evh***But even so; RSL shackles do get disconnected sometimes, making a cut-away at 100 ft a pretty dumb decision. To be clear for the sake of our newer jumpers, a cutaway at 100 feet is a bad decision regardless of the status of the RSL.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evh 22 #22 March 8, 2017 chuckakers To be clear for the sake of our newer jumpers, a cutaway at 100 feet is a bad decision regardless of the status of the RSL. Yes agreed, thanks for the emphasis. What I am trying to say is that you should not rely on an RSL/Skyhook (or AAD) at all, ever, when deciding on your harddeck. Because they may, and sometimes do, fail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #23 March 8, 2017 Benjamin11***questions like these are part of the reasons i dont want to hang out with skydivers anymore. and only very few basejumpers to be honest.. Super rad story, bro. Put down the dick, otherwise you'll end up choking on it!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 March 11, 2017 virgin-burnerquestions like these are part of the reasons i dont want to hang out with skydivers anymore. and only very few basejumpers to be honest.. Don't worry, none of us are crying about that.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anachronist 2 #25 March 11, 2017 What evh said, Never "plan" on an AAD or SkyHook doing its job, they are just there to hedge your bet when the fit hits the shan. If you wouldn't do something without an AAD or a RSL/SkyHook, then you shouldn't do it with one either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
