Just curious: how many jumps, how many cut-aways?

[GermanSKY 0]

Hi guys ... I'll try to get my own skydiving license in March/April ...

My mom isn't happy about this decision. She says skydiving is dangerous. To be honest, I have no idea if she's right or not

May I ask you guys one question: how many jumps do you have and how many cut-aways?

I know there are some other risks besides cut-aways ...
Anyway ... Just curious ....!

Have a nice day!
Stefan (from cold Germany )

[Phil1111 901]

You're asking the wrong question because there is a limited correlation between a cutaway and injury.

Read the threads in the Safety and Training section, the injuries in the Incidents section.

More injuries and deaths are resultant from poor landings under a main canopy than under a reserve parachute.

Welcome

[GermanSKY 0]

Phil, thanks for your reply.

In this thread I don't wanna talk about injuries etc.
I just wanna get an idea how likely it is to experience a cutaway.
That's why I said "Just curious ..."

I'm not talking about the consequences of losing the main parachute ...

[councilman24 36]

This is to a large extent influenced by personal choices. Gear you choose to jump, how you maintain it, how you pack it. There are jumpers with 3000+ jumps with no malfunctions, another stopped counting at 39 with 1000 or less jumps.

Not every malfunction requires a cutaway. I had 4 in 600 jumps and none in 2000 jumps. You may have first on jump 1 or jump 3000.

Revise your thinking. You should be ready for a malfunction on each and every jump.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[piisfish 135]

2007 jumps over 13 years
5 reserve rides from which 3 cutaways
0 days off of work due to skydive injury

A cutaway is not a risk, it is a safety feature.
How many times did you hear about a driver managing to change a wheel before crashing on the motorway after blowing a tyre ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[jumpsalot-2 2]

1400 before the first one. While I was spinning on my back, my first thought was ..... FINALLY !!!!

Life is short ... jump often.

[tkhayes 123]

8200 jumps in 35 years, so many cutaways I lost count. Only serious injury was due to a stupid low hook turn

[Bob_Church 7]

My first high speed malfunction which would have been a cutaway except that student gear had the cutaways wired shut was in 1978. I had three more before 1984 or so. These were pretty much due to the old gear we were jumping. It had a long way to go. In fact it wasn't until 2015 that I had another cutaway and I can say with no hesitation that that was due to sloppiness on my part. I did a poor, supposedly temporary, job of sewing up a keeper, then instead of getting it to a rigger the first chance I had I ignored it.
If you take care of your gear it will take care of you. I consider Skydiving to be a dangerous sport than can be done safely.

[Bob_Church 7]

My mom isn't happy about this decision. She says skydiving is dangerous. To be honest, I have no idea if she's right or not

I think the biggest problem that people have with skydiving is that they think it is ONLY dangerous. They see it as an expensive form of Russian Roulette so why do it. My impression on that first drive to the DZ was of a bunch of people sitting around a cable spool playing cards and getting their nerve up for another jump. All of this in grim boring colors. What amazed me most was seeing that it was a sport with different brands, nice colors, all of it. And most importantly, people skydiving because it's so much fun.
Maybe if your Mother could see that aspect of Skyiving it might help.

[GermanSKY 0]

Thanks for the replies ...

Bob ... my mom believes skydiving is like this:

1st step: You jump out of the plane.
2nd step: IF YOU'RE LUCKY, the parachute opens ...

If that happens ...

3rd step: Next flight ... you're jumping out again.
4th step: MAYBE THIS TIME IT DOESN'T OPEN?

Honestly, jumping with a tandem master on my back was quite relaxing. I have no idea how it feels to jump out alone ... or with 1-2 instructors at the beginning ...

But isn't a properly opened main canopy the first important thing after exiting? As some members mentioned before, there are other risks beside malfunctions of the main canopy. But what's the first, important thing after leaving the plane? If the main canopy opens properly there's a good chance to return to the ground alive, isn't it?

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

To directly answer your question, 460 and zero.

But I choose to jump a reasonably docile canopy at a reasonably low wingloading. I also usually pack for myself and am careful and thorough.

A friend has 600ish jumps and 4 or 5 cutaways. One was a lineover on a tandem (probably a packing issue) the others were on more aggressive canopies at higher wingloads. A couple were on a Diablo loaded around 1.4 or so. The Diablo is known for being unstable on opening, and once it goes into line twists, it starts spinning fast and points straight at the ground.

There are choices you can make that will affect your chances of having a cutaway.

To answer a couple things you didn't ask:

It has risks, but I wouldn't call it "dangerous." Tens of thousands of people make millions of jumps each year. The vast majority are uneventful.
This conversation comes up on a fairly regular basis.
Generally, its about as risky as riding a motorcycle.

And, like riding, you can make choices with regard to your equipment and behaviors which can increase or reduce the risk.

The "mom is concerned" issue is also common. If she is at all willing to listen to reason (and not all moms are), you can often address those concerns.

The most effective way I know of (and the one I used) is to bring her out to watch on a day when you aren't jumping. That way you can be a "tour guide". You can show the care and concern with the equipment, the planning that goes into the jumps, the seriousness that emergency procedures are treated with, and the sheer joy that we have when we do it.

So many who don't know a thing about it consider it a "death sport", where simply surviving each jump is the main goal.
But it's a lot, lot more than that.
And if you mom is open minded enough to see that, she may well reduce her objections and concerns (hey, she's your mom, she will never stop worrying about you).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 1,901]

Our small Cessna DZ did about 2500 jumps last season. We had two cutaways. I consider that about half the normal rate. But it is highly variable.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Bob_Church 7]

There's a lot more to it than that, but you'll learn all that. My point is that at some point your mother decided that the advantages of letting you go out on your own over rode the dangers. But there is no reason for her to ever accept Russian Roulette so you might want make an effort to somehow let her know what the Sport is really about.
Good luck.

[Anachronist 2]

Here's the real deal. If you skydive and aren't a tard, there is a good chance you will have at least one significant injury if you stick around long enough. Broken leg, torn ligament, road rash, etc. I would even go as far as to say "probably."

If you are a tard, then the frequency and severity both increase dramatically. If you get into BASE, they both skyrocket.

That said, most people who have suffered an injury (me included, broken leg) keep jumping. So to a lot of us the reward justifies the cost/risk.

For the crippling/dieing stuff, the chances are a lot smaller. Some folks get crippled for life and others die. Right now the fatality rate in the US is about 1 in 2,000 jumpers per year(this doesn't take into account number of jumps) Source

It is an almost certainty that if this becomes your thing and you stick around more than five years, you will have someone you know die.

The risks are real, but that is part of the attraction isn't it?

Oh, and if you stick around long enough, you absolutely will have a cutaway, or two, or three, or more. It is a terrible metric to assess risk by.

[gowlerk 1,901]

Quote

The risks are real, but that is part of the attraction isn't it?

The main reason for skydiving is the adventure and adrenaline. You can't have that without risk, or at least a perception of risk. The statistics are a way to gauge the real level of risk, but the bottom line is how it makes you feel.

Do not tell your mother this. Just baffle her with bullshit. And if possible, get her to do a tandem. Your mother's fear is like most people's. They don't know very much about the sport, but it looks and sounds dangerous. CSPA has a motto, and it is a good one.

"Knowledge dispels fear" Education will change the way see sees the sport. She will meet older people who have been jumping for years at the DZ, and this will affect her perceptions. Right now, the DZ is just a black box to her. Full of unknowns, open a window and let her see in.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,901]

Quote

If the main canopy opens properly there's a good chance to return to the ground alive, isn't it?

Yes, but so what? Every time I jump I always assume that my main canopy is going to malfunction. And I plan how to deal with that. That way I always believe that on every jump I have a VERY good chance of returning safely to Earth. If I did not, I would not still be jumping.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Trafficdiver 8]

1300 jumps
1 cutaway

[PeteW 0]

Jump 14 I wrapped the pc around my arm then flipped on my back and wrapped it up some more. I pulled the reserve handle and out came a round. This was back in 2002 I think. I injured my knee because I was too heavy for a round. I never really got serious in the sport till last year but did some paragliding in 07-09. I crashed on my 105th flight and broke my back. Now I'm married with a 4 year old but wanted to return last year. Did 50 jumps with no problem. I'm older now at 38 and a lot smarter. My dad hates to hear me talk about jumping still. He was never into it, after my back even less. I finally convinced him to come watch a jump and had a toggle come off in flight lol. Now he wants nothing to do with it. Makes mim too nervous. Even thou he used to ride a quad, street bike ect.

[FrancoR 0]

1500 jumps
0 Reserves
Always conservatives Canopies on light windloading (Spectre/Pilot 170)

If it does not cost anything you are the product.

[sammielu 3]

4.5 years, 1550+ jumps, 1 cutaway (jump #41), 1 injury (ankle sprain as a student, planted my feet trying to stand up a landing - learned that's not how to do that). I've landed 2 (maybe 3) malfunctions after determining the canopy was under control and cleared minor malfunctions more times than is possible to count.

I'm conservative with my main canopy choice, size, and conditions I wI'll jump in. I'm also extremely current, this will be my 3rd season as a full time instructor (SL and TI). I get in the hanging harness at least every 60 days and go through currency review data every couple weeks (it's my job and all). The lesson here is: learn your stuff, practice often, listen to your instructors, riggers, and mentors, choose those people carefully and tune everyone else out.

I hear the malfunction rate is about 1 in 1000 jumps these days. The more important thing to remember is that fatalities and major injuries usually happen with good equipment and the problem is human error in decision making or execution. So- keep your head on straight. I know from alcohol server training that statistically 1 in 4 drivers is drunk. I sold my parents on me jumping by assuring them of my desire to be safe and make good decisions, walking them through a gear check and explaining all of the safety devices (AAD, RSL, spring loaded pc for the reserve) - and why I have them and when I'd expect to use them (ie. my AAD is in case I'm unconscious). Add in the drunk driving fact and that I drive 75 miles a day to get to my job and that there are no drunk drivers in the sky... they approve now. There was a time when we would review every skydiving incident that made the news so they could be further reassured that I was aware of the situation and had a plan to prevent myself from following that fatality.

[AlanS 1]

GermanSKY

My mom isn't happy about this decision. She says skydiving is dangerous. To be honest, I have no idea if she's right or not

Well it is more dangerous than spending our entire life sitting on the couch.

Does your mom think scuba diving is dangerous? Tell her about the concept of "miromorts" and that according to recent stats collected on this one skydive, is equal to two scuba dives.

The reality is a bit more complicated, but if she is OK with your chances of surviving a scuba dive, she should be OK with skydiving too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort

Quote

May I ask you guys one question: how many jumps do you have and how many cut-aways?

Like others have said cut-away stats might not be a good measure of risk. For example someone that mentally freezes in an emergency and fails to cut-away might be at higher risk of death than someone that doesn't seize-up in that situation and can cut-away.

Here are my stats. Short answer: 1 for 304.

Details.
304 jumps.

- One high speed malfunction. (main stayed in container and I had to deploy reserve).
- One scary plane ride, that could have had a very bad ending if few details were different.
- One sprained ankle when I stepped in a hole while trying to run out a landing.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Between my wife and I, we have 2500 jumps with one cutaway (me) and one broken bone (me - I tripped over and fractured my wrist, about 300 jumps after the cutaway).

We've both witnessed our share of skydiving accidents though, and I can concur with other posters on this thread: your mom is worrying about the wrong thing.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[riggerrob 558]

USPA statistics say that main parachutes malfunction once every 700 hundred jumps. Roughly one skydiver dies per million jumps, but we do not have complete statistics.

Minor nuisances (line twists, closed end cells, etc.) are common, but usually easily corrected before decision altitude (1700 feet).

I did my first jump 40 years ago and have made 6,500 jumps since then with 5 solo reserve rides and 20 plus tandem reserve rides. Most of those reserve rides were after cutting away damaged first-generation tandems.
None of those canopies (28 foot round, Crossbow, Cruiselite, Diablo and F-111 tandem canopies) are no longer manufactured. If you brought them to my loft today, I would enjoy a laugh and point you towards a museum!
Reassure Mom that if you buy reasonable equipment and plan your dives methodically, you have an excellent chance of surviving long enough to join Skydivers Over Sixty ..... one of my resolutions for 2017.

[jackwallace 3]

My mom was the opposite of yours. I hid my jumping from her for 6 months, before she saw me doing it on TV. She was so glad, I "quit that dam motorcycle racing" to take up skydiving, cause she was so tired of picking me up at the hospital after crashes. In 15 years she never had to come get me from the hospital.

U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

[obelixtim 100]

2/4000.

In NZ the most dangerous sport is......fishing.

The reaper is gonna get us all sooner or later, and when he calls it doesn't matter what the hell you are doing at the time.

Lots of people die in hospitals....I try to avoid them.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....