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billvon

A further hypothesis on the popularity of Trump

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There have been tomes written on why Trump is popular with the right.  Why a big-government authoritarian who sneers at both Congress and the courts appeals to small-government republicans.  Why someone who has sent the US deficit to record levels is popular with the same anti-spending GOP.  Why a supporter of foreign strongmen and dictators appeals to nationalists.   Why a man who has been credibly accused of raping two women, sexually assaulting eleven, who likes to leer at underage women in locker rooms and even likes to brag about his assaults appeals to "family values" types.  Why a man who flouts the US Constitution, has had to settle several lawsuits, had an administration full of convicted criminals and who is now going to court for a rape/slander lawsuit appeals to law and order types.  A lot of credible proposals have been floated.  I'd like to suggest another hypothesis - fetish.

Consider these two comment from staunch Republicans:

Ben Stein, via the American Spectator: "My girlfriend, who is about 10 years younger than I am, got stoked as blazes and wanted to rent a room at the Trump hotel right then and there and ball. And she’s an accountant and really cautious. But she was going crazy about Trump and she wanted sex right then and there."  (Stein was recounting a story from a friend.)

From Parler yesterday (via ParlerTakes): "I haven't been able to get erection since Joe Biden and his wranglers stole the election. My wife is really upset.  Does anyone else have an issue like this?"

That suggests some sexual undercurrents there.

Fetishes are weird.  They don't make sense, and they don't reflect how people feel on bigger issues.  So maybe a guy who has a "being in a women's locker room when they can't kick me out, because I'm the boss" fantasy sees some appeal there, even if he'd never do that in real life.  Or a women who has fantasies about a rich, powerful man doing whatever he wants to her might see some attraction too - again, even though she would neither condone nor want such a thing to actually happen.  So they don't support that sort of behavior at all - but they like thinking about it, and like having a leader that reminds them of it.

You see allusions to this on social media forums all the time.  "Trump is a strong, powerful man and libs can't handle that!" and comments like that.

Possible?  Perhaps, although if it's an effect, it's a small one.  But perhaps it makes up one small part of his popularity to the right.

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Yes, many of trump's tribe believe he is untouchable and they desire the same walk in life. “Moral Tribes: Emotion, Reason and the Gap Between Us and Them.”.  deals with these issues. Although the book was authored in 2013 before the trump phenomenon.

"Trump’s blatant bigotry, misogyny, and incitements to violence make him completely unacceptable to liberals and moderates. And, thus, his comments function like gang tattoos. He’s not merely saying things that his supporters want to hear. By making himself permanently and unequivocally unacceptable to the opposition, he’s “proving” his loyalty to their side. This is why, I think, the Republican base trusts Trump like no other." quote from author of that aforementioned book.

Like women who see the ideal mate as a tough biker dude on his Harley although they have never personally known one. Many of his base like the ideal of a middle index finger in the face of the government, of liberal elites who tell them what to do and how to act. aka trump talk. Reason is for someone else because emotion is the formulator of decisions for them. The entire romance novel industry is based upon such story telling. People(read women) are swept away from their meaningless lives by a hero/savior.

Religion is similar and although trump has delivered nothing. His tattooed tribe, AR-15s at the ready deems his failures to deliver a theft from him and them. Evangelicals continue to pray for their day of deliverance. trump tribalists pant in anticipation of their unrealized victory over liberals. I'm sure for them there is a sexual domination of liberal women somewhere in that thinking because:

"Recall Trump’s advice to Charles Foster Kane, the protagonist of “Citizen Kane,” a favorite film of his. When the documentarian Errol Morris asked the future president in 2002 if he would give any advice to the fictional Kane, a man torn apart by hubris and his obsession over his own work and legacy, Trump’s response was simple: “Get yourself a different woman.” Trump couldn’t have been less interested in psychoanalyzing Kane as a proxy for Orson Welles, or a metaphor for unchecked power and ambition. Kane merely served as a lens through which Trump could implicitly present himself as the savvier, ideal version of the fictional tycoon. (After all, he’s followed his own prescription for Kane twice now.)"

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15 hours ago, billvon said:

There have been tomes written on why Trump is popular with the right.  Why a big-government authoritarian who sneers at both Congress and the courts appeals to small-government republicans.  Why someone who has sent the US deficit to record levels is popular with the same anti-spending GOP.  Why a supporter of foreign strongmen and dictators appeals to nationalists.   Why a man who has been credibly accused of raping two women, sexually assaulting eleven, who likes to leer at underage women in locker rooms and even likes to brag about his assaults appeals to "family values" types.  Why a man who flouts the US Constitution, has had to settle several lawsuits, had an administration full of convicted criminals and who is now going to court for a rape/slander lawsuit appeals to law and order types.  A lot of credible proposals have been floated.  I'd like to suggest another hypothesis - fetish.

Consider these two comment from staunch Republicans:

Ben Stein, via the American Spectator: "My girlfriend, who is about 10 years younger than I am, got stoked as blazes and wanted to rent a room at the Trump hotel right then and there and ball. And she’s an accountant and really cautious. But she was going crazy about Trump and she wanted sex right then and there."  (Stein was recounting a story from a friend.)

From Parler yesterday (via ParlerTakes): "I haven't been able to get erection since Joe Biden and his wranglers stole the election. My wife is really upset.  Does anyone else have an issue like this?"

That suggests some sexual undercurrents there.

Fetishes are weird.  They don't make sense, and they don't reflect how people feel on bigger issues.  So maybe a guy who has a "being in a women's locker room when they can't kick me out, because I'm the boss" fantasy sees some appeal there, even if he'd never do that in real life.  Or a women who has fantasies about a rich, powerful man doing whatever he wants to her might see some attraction too - again, even though she would neither condone nor want such a thing to actually happen.  So they don't support that sort of behavior at all - but they like thinking about it, and like having a leader that reminds them of it.

You see allusions to this on social media forums all the time.  "Trump is a strong, powerful man and libs can't handle that!" and comments like that.

Possible?  Perhaps, although if it's an effect, it's a small one.  But perhaps it makes up one small part of his popularity to the right.

If it's because his base wants to be fucked in the weirdest ways possible then for them every day is like Christmas.

Edited by JoeWeber

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It could also be that people are waking up to the failures of our system of government. They want and need a change. And besides it has been WAY too long since this country has been ruled by a fascist dictator and they see Trump as the only possibility for that to happen in their lives.

We all need to stay tuned for today America votes for and elects the next president. 

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1 hour ago, CygnusX-1 said:

It could also be that people are waking up to the failures of our system of government. They want and need a change. And besides it has been WAY too long since this country has been ruled by a fascist dictator and they see Trump as the only possibility for that to happen in their lives.

We all need to stay tuned for today America votes for and elects the next president. 

Seriously, this entire thing is beyond my wildest imaginings. Obviously, regardless of the harm to the nation, Trump will grasp at any straw to avoid the courts come January 20. I've said it already several times here but it bears repeating: if you voted for Trump the second time you own this. 

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57 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Seriously, this entire thing is beyond my wildest imaginings. Obviously, regardless of the harm to the nation, Trump will grasp at any straw to avoid the courts come January 20. I've said it already several times here but it bears repeating: if you voted for Trump the second time you own this. 

This has gone well beyond Trump.

Something like half of the R congresscritters signed on in support of the Texas lawsuit, as did R Attorney's General from a bunch of states.

They don't care who won the actual election. They want to stay in power no matter what.

And Stephen Miller is now saying they will sent 'Alternate Electors" to congress.
 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-adviser-stephen-miller-alternate-electors-vote-1554581

"Alternate Electors", you know, just like "Alternate Facts".

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1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

This has gone well beyond Trump.

Something like half of the R congresscritters signed on in support of the Texas lawsuit, as did R Attorney's General from a bunch of states.

They don't care who won the actual election. They want to stay in power no matter what.

And Stephen Miller is now saying they will sent 'Alternate Electors" to congress.
 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-adviser-stephen-miller-alternate-electors-vote-1554581

"Alternate Electors", you know, just like "Alternate Facts".

Hi Joe,

From your link:  'That means that if we win these cases in the courts'

Some how I doubt that they will 'win these cases in the courts' knowing their current track record.  But, one can always dream.

Or, better yet, just live in an alternate world.

Jerry Baumchen

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1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And Stephen Miller is now saying they will sent 'Alternate Electors" to congress.
 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-adviser-stephen-miller-alternate-electors-vote-1554581

"Alternate Electors", you know, just like "Alternate Facts".

Amazing. I know the Republican party long ago abandoned any pretence at principles beyond 'fuck you, I got mine' but the layer cake of hypocrisy here is incredible.

Anyone who supports this supports the federal government annihilating states' rights. Anyone who supports this supports an unelected deep state trying to sabotage the democratically elected government. Anyone who supports this supports allowing an insider class of political elites to overrule the decisions of ordinary working people and deny them any say in how the country is governed. 

Real core conservative values there.

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Interesting theory, Bill, and I'm sure it applies to many.  However, we are now in a situation where almost a full 1/3 of the American population think that we just had our first illegitimate president appointed by the powers that be and not elected.  I don't think it's likely that so many people share the same fetish.

So, how did we get here?  I think Sam Harris summed it up well in these podcasts:

https://samharris.org/podcasts/the-most-powerful-clown/

https://samharris.org/podcasts/224-key-trumps-appeal/

https://samharris.org/podcasts/225-republic-lies/

 

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On 12/14/2020 at 8:14 AM, kallend said:

I put it down to ignorance and gullibility.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 7:58 AM, obelixtim said:

Terminal idiocy is the simple answer.

 

On 12/15/2020 at 4:08 AM, CygnusX-1 said:

It could also be that people are waking up to the failures of our system of government.

...or that they are ignorant of how government actually works.  When they get frustrated or feel the government has let them down, instead of hearing from a responsible representative about where the system has gone wrong and where that person's situation fits into the bigger picture, they're hearing "the elites are out to get you!" and "only I can fix it!" and "I'm on YOUR side.  It's us against them!"  Strong technique for said elected official to stay in power. When the constituency stays in that bubble of ignorance and eats what's being thrown at it, the ignorance and idiocy are never solved.

It's sad, really, that our system allows for just a small people to make a difference on an issue.  Democracy isn't just casting a vote.  It's civil society engaging in "collective bargaining," and the citizenry making a stand over what is and what isn't important.  And it's a responsibility of that citizenry to get involved to be part of the solution. Not just "of the people" and "for the people," but also "BY the people."  And yet, we have "public servants" who choose not to help shine a light to educate their constituents on how they fit into the big picture, and the power they each have to influence it. 

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IMO, the explanation is much simpler. We despise socialism/communism and liberal ideology, which includes political correctness. We want America to remain independent from the European model. Also, we want to stand strong against China and the Islamic radicals.

So far, President Trump is the only one capable of accomplishing those ideal goals.

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9 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

IMO, the explanation is much simpler. We despise socialism/communism and liberal ideology, which includes political correctness. We want America to remain independent from the European model. Also, we want to stand strong against China and the Islamic radicals.

So far, President Trump is the only one capable of accomplishing those ideal goals.

The more I understand it, political correctness is really nothing more than an acknowledgment that one can't say just anything to anyone. Used to be that good ol' boys could, in fact, say just about anything to anyone (except for their mothers and the police). Minorities knew they'd get whupped, wives too were subordinate in nearly every scale. Everyone "needed" those white men.

PC means you're not in charge any more. You have to ask permission, where before you were the one who granted it. You have to be polite to women you don't feel like being polite to (like that babe at the office who wears low-cut blouses). People don't get out of your way any more.

That's OK. Welcome to how the entire rest of the US lives.

Wendy P.

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18 minutes ago, RonD1120 said:

IMO, the explanation is much simpler. We despise socialism/communism and liberal ideology, which includes political correctness. We want America to remain independent from the European model. Also, we want to stand strong against China and the Islamic radicals.

So far, President Trump is the only one capable of accomplishing those ideal goals.

Except the liberal ideology you despise is less representative of the political goals of Democrats, and more a caricaturist representation cooked up by Fox to keep you angry and voting Republican. 

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10 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

The more I understand it, political correctness is really nothing more than an acknowledgment that one can't say just anything to anyone. Used to be that good ol' boys could, in fact, say just about anything to anyone (except for their mothers and the police). Minorities knew they'd get whupped, wives too were subordinate in nearly every scale. Everyone "needed" those white men.

PC means you're not in charge any more. You have to ask permission, where before you were the one who granted it. You have to be polite to women you don't feel like being polite to (like that babe at the office who wears low-cut blouses). People don't get out of your way any more.

That's OK. Welcome to how the entire rest of the US lives.

Wendy P.

Hi Wendy,

Re:  'Welcome to how the entire rest of the US lives.'

And, it is a tough pill for them to swallow.  But, they can do it if they want to.

Jerry Baumchen

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5 minutes ago, headoverheels said:

Following the teachings of Jesus.

I honestly do not believe he can put a coherent list together. It's just a thing like socialism which isn't a thing when it comes to his social security checks and his medicare. 

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2 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

IMO, the explanation is much simpler. We despise socialism/communism and liberal ideology, which includes political correctness. We want America to remain independent from the European model. Also, we want to stand strong against China and the Islamic radicals.

So far, President Trump is the only one capable of accomplishing those ideal goals.

So far, President Trump has been the loudest voice demanding PC behaviour. He's called for people to be fired and companies to be boycotted for participating in or allowing un-PC actions. He's basically a leader of the cancel culture.

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2 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

IMO, the explanation is much simpler. We despise socialism/communism and liberal ideology, which includes political correctness. We want America to remain independent from the European model. Also, we want to stand strong against China and the Islamic radicals.

So far, President Trump is the only one capable of accomplishing those ideal goals.

So stop taking Social Security. 
And socialized (government paid) medical care.

Work for a living and pay your own way, rather than expecting the government to take care of you.

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18 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

So stop taking Social Security. 
And socialized (government paid) medical care.

Work for a living and pay your own way, rather than expecting the government to take care of you.

And pay his wife's way, too. She's ill and heavily reliant on money from blue states to keep her healthy. The hypocrisy and disconnect from reality is impossible to fathom. Then there is the nonsense of Trump standing strong against China. For his entire presidency Trump has been dancing backwards like Ginger Rogers to Xi's Fred Astaire and Ron is too imbued in his fantasies to see it. Worse, he can not see how un-American and damaging to our nation is his desire to see the election overturned. Truly, it's an R thing: now, me and today never realizing where the real danger lays.

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4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Please break down what exactly you mean by "liberal ideology".

Giving money to illegal immigrants
Putting pedophiles in charge
Selling America to China
Disrespecting veterans
Making everyone gay marry

And other things that FOX News regularly feeds him.  (Although from what I've heard lately, Trump supporters have drifted so far right that they think FOX News is part of the left wing media, and only OAN and Stormfront are centrist.)

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10 minutes ago, billvon said:

Giving money to illegal immigrants
Putting pedophiles in charge
Selling America to China
Disrespecting veterans
Making everyone gay marry

And other things that FOX News regularly feeds him.  (Although from what I've heard lately, Trump supporters have drifted so far right that they think FOX News is part of the left wing media, and only OAN and Stormfront are centrist.)

You mean like hiring them to build his buildings? Or marrying one?

You mean like cozying up to Jeffery Epstein and saying they have similar tastes in women?

You mean like paying more income taxes to China than to the US?

You mean like skipping out on a major anniversary remembrance and calling those who died 'losers and suckers'?

The only thing on the list that Trump DIDN'T do is the gay marriage one.

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