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skydiverek

CYPRES activated by swooper: crazy video

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The fact we have seen these and they have occurred in the past and have resulted in fatalities, does this not seem like there is still an issue here.

In the past you may put it down to exceeding Cypres firing parameter (even though Airtec knew it was possible and simply chose not make that public knowledge) contributing to the death of Adrian Nicholas.

In the current, having a changeable mode which is set incorrectly coupled with the more common use of extremely small higher performance canopies.

Perhaps the general firing parameters for "Expert" need to be adjusted as what may have been applicable x number of years ago may not be as appropriate now. Having configurable is great but then opens it up to being misconfigured, like in this case. The jumper concerned was extremely lucky.

The ones I've heard about firing seem to by Cypres'. Anyone know of other any swoop fires with Vigils or M2's ?

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What should Airtec do? As far as I'm concerned, they are doing the right thing. Making a configurable unit helps because at least the HP pilot has a choice. HP flight demands attention to detail. Perhaps not everyone is up to the challenge.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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I was taught that big turns on the smaller petras/hks/peregrines could fire even in speed mode. This seems plausible from my own limited experience with these wings.

If this is the case, having a wing that can take terminal openings while being able to fire a speed unit is worrying...

Does anyone else have any data/experience to support or undercut this?

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Current AAD's are incompatible with high-performance canopy flight.

I can hit 110MPH vertical on a high-perf turn. What's the threshold for the speed cypress, again?

We'll see if someone is able to come up with a unit that takes more data into account. Until then, remove it or leave it off if you're going big.

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skytribe

Perhaps the general firing parameters for "Expert" need to be adjusted as what may have been applicable x number of years ago may not be as appropriate now. Having configurable is great but then opens it up to being misconfigured, like in this case.



I am not a swooper and I do not want my AAD firing at higher decent rates.
There is absolutely no reason to change units that perform as designed for the majority of users.


Swoopers can use a speed version or turn it off.
Wingsuiters can buy a WS cypress or even use student mode and avoid large turns under canopy. (not recommended but possible)

Choose the correct tool for the job

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councilman24

***Looked more like 8 feet,,,and didn't seem to be going too fast.....hhmm



When the canopy might have come out or inflated. You don't know when the loop was cut.

Plus, when he rotated to a vertical position, the burble disapeared, and the pressure increased A LOT on his back. So, the AAD 'saw' even more rapid descent.


.

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This is about the Vigil video that was put up (not the Cypres that started the thread):

Quote


Plus, when he rotated to a vertical position, the burble disapeared, and the pressure increased A LOT on his back.



Although there could be angle of attack changes, the jumper is still belly to the wind. So I'd prefer to say: As he slowed down quickly (in what wasn't a high end swoop) the burble quickly reduced. Same result. Pop.

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cs_troyk

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Current AAD's are incompatible with high-performance canopy flight.

I can hit 110MPH vertical on a high-perf turn. What's the threshold for the speed cypress, again?

We'll see if someone is able to come up with a unit that takes more data into account. Until then, remove it or leave it off if you're going big.



I've talked to jumpers who were obviously downsizing way too fast, one hurt herself on two jumps in a row but wouldn't consider a larger canopy.
But we were talking about equipment once and she stated that there was absolutely no way she would ever exit an aircraft without an aad.
She ended up quitting because her tiny canopy kept scaring her. But no aad, no jump.
Go figure.

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Remster

******Anyone know of other any swoop fires with Vigils



http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4416268

Unit fired within its parameters during a swoop and resulted in a fatality.

Saw it a few times at the DZ actually. All 3 times I witnessed, no injuries.

I've also witnessed 3 Vigil fires on final with no injuries...and pretty sure not the same 3 you saw. 1 in PR, 1 in Deland, 1 in Sebastian.
HISPA #93
DS #419.5


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DHemer

***Perhaps the general firing parameters for "Expert" need to be adjusted as what may have been applicable x number of years ago may not be as appropriate now. Having configurable is great but then opens it up to being misconfigured, like in this case.



I am not a swooper and I do not want my AAD firing at higher decent rates.
There is absolutely no reason to change units that perform as designed for the majority of users.


Swoopers can use a speed version or turn it off.
Wingsuiters can buy a WS cypress or even use student mode and avoid large turns under canopy. (not recommended but possible)

Choose the correct tool for the job

As a dedicated WS pilot, I wonder, has anyone heard of an AAD firing under ("normal") wingsuit flight?

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I have just put a multi mode Speed cypres in my container and the thing that struck me is that even though they have made it difficult to select the mode you want by having to carry out a convoluted process, they have made it easy to not select the mode you want by having to carry out the convoluted process twice.

If you only had to go through the process once there is no chance that you would forget to do it a second time to confirm selection, which currently means your unit returns to the previous mode.

I just do not get the thinking behind this decision.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

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timski


As a dedicated WS pilot, I wonder, has anyone heard of an AAD firing under ("normal") wingsuit flight?



Not me. In normal flight descent rate is about 50 mph, so why would that activate an AAD?

In fact, it is possible to fly any AAD into the ground.
In some cases, a ws will cause a slow descent even if you're not flying, ie: spinning like a frisbee.

A ws AAD is set to activate at a lower descent rate, like a student model, thus it is not good for swooping or big turns. I never saw much need for it, but some do I guess.
But what do I know?

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Argus has (had?) the answer and they were bullied out of the market.

I use an Argus in swoop mode in my Mirage container with the Petra 68 loaded over 3.0. In Swoop Mode on an Argus the AAD goes into standby once the main canopy is deployed. This is the best solution in my opinion to having an AAD with an ultra performance canopy.

FYI - I have also seen an Argus fire on final when the owner thought the AAD was in swoop mode, but it was not.
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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jacketsdb23

Argus has (had?) the answer and they were bullied out of the market.

I use an Argus in swoop mode in my Mirage container with the Petra 68 loaded over 3.0. In Swoop Mode on an Argus the AAD goes into standby once the main canopy is deployed. This is the best solution in my opinion to having an AAD with an ultra performance canopy.

FYI - I have also seen an Argus fire on final when the owner thought the AAD was in swoop mode, but it was not.



What answer did Argus have for this situation? What is the difference between a multimode Cypress, where the user accidentily selects the wrong mode, with an Argus where you can make the same mistake?

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