trump's Pardons

[Phil1111 1,078]

Michael Flynn. Soon the list will grow. Pandemics are for the minions of the state to deal with. First let the criminals of the swamp take their walk to freedom.

The list of those who received clemency not related to trump's personal swamp work is here.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Phil1111

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

The Flynn pardon is interesting.

It's one of the few that I can think of where the President pardoned someone who committed a crime that furthered the interests of that particular President.

Bush commuted Scooter Libby's sentence, similar to Trump commuting Stones. But those aren't pardons.

One 'fun' part of that is that if Flynn is subpoenaed to testify, he can no longer 'claim the 5th' and refuse to testify.
Could prove interesting before, say, a congressinal inquiry.

[jakee 1,344]

3 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

The Flynn pardon is interesting.

It's one of the few that I can think of where the President pardoned someone who committed a crime that furthered the interests of that particular President.

Nixon made Ford President.

[SkyDekker 1,291]

3 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

The Flynn pardon is interesting.

It's one of the few that I can think of where the President pardoned someone who committed a crime that furthered the interests of that particular President.

Bush commuted Scooter Libby's sentence, similar to Trump commuting Stones. But those aren't pardons.

One 'fun' part of that is that if Flynn is subpoenaed to testify, he can no longer 'claim the 5th' and refuse to testify.
Could prove interesting before, say, a congressinal inquiry.

Until the actual text of the pardon is available, hard to say anything. Though on the above, Bill Barr stated during his confirmation hearing that would be a crime.

There is also a statement from the White House which would indicate it only pertains to one of the three crimes.....

[JoeWeber 2,567]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

Until the actual text of the pardon is available, hard to say anything. Though on the above, Bill Barr stated during his confirmation hearing that would be a crime.

There is also a statement from the White House which would indicate it only pertains to one of the three crimes.....

Judge Sullivan may get a bite at the apple. Stand by.

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

14 minutes ago, jakee said:

Nixon made Ford President.

Not sure what you mean.

Ford was VP long before Nixon resigned.

Nixon had resigned before Ford pardoned him.

None of Nixon's crimes benefitted Ford in any way I can think of.

The only 'benefit' was that Nixon got caught trying to cover it up, had to resign and Ford took over. 

Not exactly the same as Flynn illegally meeting with Russians before Trump became president, then lying to the FBI about it to try to help keep Trump out of trouble.

[SStewart 13]

Pardon the swamp?

[jakee 1,344]

8 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

None of Nixon's crimes benefitted Ford in any way I can think of.

Nixon committed many, many crimes of election fraud in an election he won with Ford as his running mate. If the crimes were for his benefit then ipso facto they were equally for Ford's benefit.

[wmw999 2,314]

Ford wasn't his running mate; Spiro Agnew was. Ford was selected as VP after Agnew resigned in late 1973 in disgrace (immediately before being indicted for tax evasion)

Wendy P.

[jakee 1,344]

35 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Ford wasn't his running mate; Spiro Agnew was. Ford was selected as VP after Agnew resigned in late 1973 in disgrace (immediately before being indicted for tax evasion)

Either way, doesn't matter. Nixon criminally cheated in the election, and as a direct result of him winning the election he cheated in Ford became VP and President. How anyone can claim Nixon's crimes didn't benefit Ford is beyond me.

[Phil1111 1,078]

At the White House, President Trump carried out the traditional Thanksgiving turkey pardon ceremony.Giuliani and Trump’s House pet gobbler, Rep. Nunes.

Over in Russia, Vladimir Putin has plenty of reason to be thankful for the Republican Party and the likes of Tucker Carlson on Fox News, as they continue to dutifully gobble-out his talking points and disinformation.

[wmw999 2,314]

17 minutes ago, jakee said:

Either way, doesn't matter. Nixon criminally cheated in the election, and as a direct result of him winning the election he cheated in Ford became VP and President. How anyone can claim Nixon's crimes didn't benefit Ford is beyond me.

The silliest part of Watergate is that Nixon won convincingly with a 23-pt spread. He took 49 of the 50 states, and would very likely have won without that. VERY likely.

Wendy P.

[ryoder 1,553]

13 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

One 'fun' part of that is that if Flynn is subpoenaed to testify, he can no longer 'claim the 5th' and refuse to testify.

This is the best part.

[gowlerk 2,099]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Either way, doesn't matter. Nixon criminally cheated in the election, and as a direct result of him winning the election he cheated in Ford became VP and President. How anyone can claim Nixon's crimes didn't benefit Ford is beyond me.

It would be more accurate to state that Nixon's crimes benefited the R party in general and that Ford, who was selected by Nixon to replace Agnew indirectly benefited as well. Pardoning Nixon was sold as for the "good of America" but a strong case could be made that it was really an attempt to save the party from further damage. 

[jakee 1,344]

12 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It would be more accurate to state that Nixon's crimes benefited the R party in general and that Ford, who was selected by Nixon to replace Agnew indirectly benefited as well.

It wasn’t done with his benefit in mind, but Ford directly benefitted. If Nixon hadn’t won AND if Nixon hadn’t criminally cheated Then Ford wouldn’t have become President.

15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Pardoning Nixon was sold as for the "good of America" but a strong case could be made that it was really an attempt to save the party from further damage. 

Of course it was. Anyone who thinks the last sordid, self serving act of a sordid, self serving affair was actually done because of a sudden attack of conscience is simply kidding themselves.

[JerryBaumchen 1,271]

5 hours ago, wmw999 said:

The silliest part of Watergate is that Nixon won convincingly with a 23-pt spread. He took 49 of the 50 states, and would very likely have won without that. VERY likely.

Wendy P.

Hi Wendy,

PERFECT!

People who were not there in '72 probably cannot understand just how popular Nixon was then.  IMO he would have won easily without the whole CREEP thing.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,271]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

It would be more accurate to state that Nixon's crimes benefited the R party in general and that Ford, who was selected by Nixon to replace Agnew indirectly benefited as well. Pardoning Nixon was sold as for the "good of America" but a strong case could be made that it was really an attempt to save the party from further damage. 

Hi Ken,

Re:  Pardoning Nixon was sold as for the "good of America"

Ford also said that he did it because he thought that Nixon was suicidal; and he did it to prevent that possibility.

Personally, I agreed with Ford; and still do.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,078]

On 11/26/2020 at 12:49 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

Re:  Pardoning Nixon was sold as for the "good of America"..

Evidently more good is to come:

"Rudolph W. Giuliani, President Trump’s lawyer who has led the most extensive efforts to damage his client’s political rivals and undermine the election results, discussed with the president as recently as last week the possibility of receiving a pre-emptive pardon before Mr. Trump leaves office, according to two people told of the discussion.

It was not clear who raised the topic. The men have also talked previously about a pardon for Mr. Giuliani, according to the people. Mr. Trump has not indicated what he will do, one of the people said."

Gosh! with all the pardoning to come perhaps America should be renamed "America the Good!"

[JerryBaumchen 1,271]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Evidently more good is to come:

"Rudolph W. Giuliani, President Trump’s lawyer who has led the most extensive efforts to damage his client’s political rivals and undermine the election results, discussed with the president as recently as last week the possibility of receiving a pre-emptive pardon before Mr. Trump leaves office, according to two people told of the discussion.

It was not clear who raised the topic. The men have also talked previously about a pardon for Mr. Giuliani, according to the people. Mr. Trump has not indicated what he will do, one of the people said."

Gosh! with all the pardoning to come perhaps America should be renamed "America the Good!"

Hi Phil,

Re:  'receiving a pre-emptive pardon'

I am curious about a pardon for someone who has not been found guilty of anything.

IMO a pardon is for a specific crime in which the person has been found guilty.

Thoughts, folks?

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 1,291]

11 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

Re:  'receiving a pre-emptive pardon'

I am curious about a pardon for someone who has not been found guilty of anything.

IMO a pardon is for a specific crime in which the person has been found guilty.

Thoughts, folks?

Jerry Baumchen

This has never been litigated, so not really established. I have a feeling the next few years are going to bring an answer this this.

[ryoder 1,553]

9 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

Re:  'receiving a pre-emptive pardon'

I am curious about a pardon for someone who has not been found guilty of anything.

IMO a pardon is for a specific crime in which the person has been found guilty.

Thoughts, folks?

Jerry Baumchen

A pre-emptive pardon seems insane. For what period does the pardon apply? If it applies to events after the date of the pardon, the person could use it to go on a rampage of crimes, knowing they were immune. 

[Phil1111 1,078]

31 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

Re:  'receiving a pre-emptive pardon'

I am curious about a pardon for someone who has not been found guilty of anything.

IMO a pardon is for a specific crime in which the person has been found guilty.

Thoughts, folks?

Jerry Baumchen

trump will employ

19 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

This has never been litigated, so not really established. I have a feeling the next few years are going to bring an answer this this.

the best of the best legal minds. To answer that question.

19 minutes ago, ryoder said:

A pre-emptive pardon seems insane. For what period does the pardon apply? If it applies to events after the date of the pardon, the person could use it to go on a rampage of crimes, knowing they were immune. 

Ivanka, Don Jr., Eric and trump himself. Depend upon it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

6 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

Re:  'receiving a pre-emptive pardon'

I am curious about a pardon for someone who has not been found guilty of anything.

IMO a pardon is for a specific crime in which the person has been found guilty.

Thoughts, folks?

Jerry Baumchen

 

6 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

This has never been litigated, so not really established. I have a feeling the next few years are going to bring an answer this this.

 

6 hours ago, ryoder said:

A pre-emptive pardon seems insane. For what period does the pardon apply? If it applies to events after the date of the pardon, the person could use it to go on a rampage of crimes, knowing they were immune. 

I'm guessing the 'pre-emptive' part is pardoning him before any charges are brought.

 

I remember Nixon being pardoned for 'any and all crimes'. It was never tested in any court of law.

I don't think any pardon could be applied for a 'future crime'. I can't see it passing any sort of legal challenge. 
The idea of a "license to commit crimes" sounds good in the movies. But this is real life.

I got a funny feeling that this will put a lot of this to a fair amount of testing.

 

[Phil1111 1,078]

12 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

...The idea of a "license to commit crimes" sounds good in the movies. But this is real life.

I got a funny feeling that this will put a lot of this to a fair amount of testing.

 

Cash for pardons. Gotta hand it to trump and the GOP. Soon America will be bananas from sea to sea.

Hannity urges Trump to pardon himself

Edited December 2, 2020 by Phil1111

[gowlerk 2,099]

I can just hear Trump. He’d be saying “I have this thing and it’s golden. I’m not just gonna give it away.”

Edited December 2, 2020 by gowlerk